Resto druid pve

90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
12/14/2012 05:57 PMPosted by Calonderiel
I even posted a suggestion in another thread for converting hot ticks into a stacking shield when the target was at 100%.


Why not just give them a living seed-esque mechanic that can't stack too high and procs on damage equal to x% of the target's health?
100 Orc Shaman
HC
19345
Er, I thought rejuv spam was the *problem*? How can the solution be to have more of the problem?


Because the community doesn't care if Blizzard gets by with small numbers band-aid fixes. So there's no reason to go all in with fixes if a band-aid is a temp fix.
Edited by Sensations on 12/14/2012 6:41 PM PST
90 Troll Druid
9710
Hi,

Our toolkit is quite average to say the least – i mean we are pretty much the only real healing class that hadn’t had a significant change / great addition to their healing tool kit.

Shrooms are too cumbersome and their range is small – they would have been suited to Dragon Soul but not MOP in general.

My only real suggestion is:

1. Make shrooms have a raid wide range (i.e. 40 yards etc) + increased output to them, which will likely never happen cause the GD don't want shrooms included in our rotation > dammed if you do and dammed if you dont.

OR

Give us a spirit shell / group cast ability (ie.e prayer of healing) and call it “Mass Lifebloom” with a small cd like the priest's shell.

The intention is to have 3 stacks of lifebloom on the each member of the group - with an ability to cast it on every group in a 25 man make up - like spirit shell. this would be a great ability that's quite viable to the resto toolkit.

Cause going tree and lifeblooming people in 25 man is pointless due to the amount of GCD required - thus defeating part of the purpose of have TOL in the first place.

Your thoughts?
90 Night Elf Druid
10550
12/14/2012 05:27 PMPosted by Sensations
Only world first that truly matter are end bosses.


Matters to whom?
Druids have complained about toolkit problems since back in cata beta when they nerfed the hell out of rejuv. WG and SM, both cooldowns, both only hit limited targets. Rejuv was all we had left to cast that made sense to use.

If they decide to bandaid fix rejuv and make it cheaper, just like they did at the begining of cata, we're still going to have the issue with burst healing. To solve the problem we should have something we can use on a pretty frequent bases to help deal with burst situations. Whether it be reworking mushrooms to actually work, or deleting it altogether and giving us a spell that does work.

I also don't get how they would give us a spell and not want us to use it much. It makes no sense. Its like giving a child a new toy and then telling them not to play with it, and to make sure they don't, they end up making a really bad piece of plastic toy that just falls apart when you touch it.
12/14/2012 06:00 PMPosted by Keirisonis
I even posted a suggestion in another thread for converting hot ticks into a stacking shield when the target was at 100%.


Why not just give them a living seed-esque mechanic that can't stack too high and procs on damage equal to x% of the target's health?
at that point, you might want to increase raid damage to be so high that if healers don't stack stuff preemptively they die.

This game needs less of those mechanics, not more.
100 Night Elf Druid
18055
Let's consider another angle here. Resto druids are doing great in PVP. Buffing us in PVE will only make us better in PVP. This is terrible game design and has always been a huge flaw. The developers cannot balance PVE as it is. Balancing PVP and PVE is impossible, at least for the current team. Some ideas, and I don't say this lightly, but GC and the crew need to be replaced. Fresh faces with actual players on the team is sorely needed. Hot fixes every other day to nerf/buff design failures is not only frustrating for the players, but shows that the current developer team is out of touch and simply not up to the task. Next, the only way I can see helping Rdruids at the moment is to buff tranq AND, at the same time, remove it from PVP by adjusting it to work on 6 or more people thus solving the problem of PVP/PVE imbalance and burst PVE healing.
90 Tauren Druid
14415
Buffing mushrooms would fix pve while not effecting pvp at all
90 Troll Druid
3505
Some very good ideas in this thread. I hope the developers check a look.
Mushroom:bloom was designed by downs. It's just an afterthought, a farce and it's a pure disrespect to the entire druid community. We are completely disregarded and neglected. The Wild Growth glyph nerf was a blow below the ribs that I'll never forget. WG mechanic is archaic and needs to be changed.

We need more on demand burst, cheaper rejuv, a new form of +absorb mechanic for our HoTs.
We're getting sniped all day long. On high burst incoming damage fights, the "buffer" we provide to stabilize the raid is meaningless.

"Druids are fine" - Ghostcrawler
Are you serious? How can you be so far away from reality? Our current healing style is one of the most boring out of all the healing classes. We lack diversity and it's obvious. Go back to the drawing board with your team of incompetent morons.
Edited by Zekeriki on 12/15/2012 2:39 PM PST
100 Orc Shaman
HC
19345
12/15/2012 03:21 AMPosted by Sherbear
Only world first that truly matter are end bosses.


Matters to whom?


In reference to his statement to my statement, to the "world first community." You don't see people shouting and cheering for a world first stone guard, or garalon, or tsulong. It all comes to the end boss(es).
100 Troll Shaman
16325
12/15/2012 01:04 PMPosted by Tazor
Let's consider another angle here. Resto druids are doing great in PVP. Buffing us in PVE will only make us better in PVP. This is terrible game design and has always been a huge flaw. The developers cannot balance PVE as it is. Balancing PVP and PVE is impossible, at least for the current team. Some ideas, and I don't say this lightly, but GC and the crew need to be replaced. Fresh faces with actual players on the team is sorely needed. Hot fixes every other day to nerf/buff design failures is not only frustrating for the players, but shows that the current developer team is out of touch and simply not up to the task. Next, the only way I can see helping Rdruids at the moment is to buff tranq AND, at the same time, remove it from PVP by adjusting it to work on 6 or more people thus solving the problem of PVP/PVE imbalance and burst PVE healing.


This is a nice theory, except for the fact resto shamans are currently the strongest PvP healer and are pretty much the second best PvE healer, and disc priests are arguably the weakest PvP and the strongest PvE healer atm.

Stop spewing nonsense.

12/15/2012 02:19 PMPosted by Zekeriki
Are you serious? How can you be so far away from reality? Our current healing style is one of the most boring out of all the healing classes. We lack diversity and it's obvious. Go back to the drawing board with your team of incompetent morons.


Mechanical issues =/= throughput issues. If you ignore disc priests and resto shaman, then druid isn't really all that far behind as far as numbers are concerned.

Also the world first arguments are never a good argument just because there are multiple aspects to it that don't pertain to specifically to one spec.
85 Night Elf Druid
0
12/15/2012 04:08 PMPosted by Stormingire
If you ignore disc priests and resto shaman, then druid isn't really all that far behind as far as numbers are concerned.


If you ignore Disc and shaman for being OP, then you have to ignore Holy for being UP. That just leaves Monks, who have intrinsic mechanical issues, and paladins, who just plain don't have a robust AoE toolkit. By all rights, they should be excluded too.

I don't know about you, but I'll stick with reality, in which druids are second last in both raid sizes when they should rightfully be second best.

12/15/2012 04:08 PMPosted by Stormingire
Also the world first arguments are never a good argument just because there are multiple aspects to it that don't pertain to specifically to one spec.


World first arguments are very valuable, provided they're taken in the proper context. Given a little diligence, such arguments can actually be the strongest evidence for or against the viability of a particular spec.
100 Troll Shaman
16325
If you ignore Disc and shaman for being OP, then you have to ignore Holy for being UP. That just leaves Monks, who have intrinsic mechanical issues, and paladins, who just plain don't have a robust AoE toolkit. By all rights, they should be excluded too.

I don't know about you, but I'll stick with reality, in which druids are second last in both raid sizes when they should rightfully be second best.


I'm not saying that, this is just in reference to the GC quote. Him saying "druids are fine" can be explained by working on the assumption that disc and resto shamans are OP (the first being true and the second being borderline). When you consider this exclusion then the quote makes more sense since under this assumption healer balance isn't all that off. I've said similar things in t12 when everyone was going on about how bad resto shamans seemed, where if you ignored resto druids healer balance was relatively close. Granted the situations to speak with exclusions are different, but it's largely to help people understand how far off things really are.

I'm not saying resto druid seems fine, because it isn't and I would like nothing better for blizzard to fix the fundamental issues with the spec that prevents it from going between the two extremes of healer balance. This is just an attempt on my part to try and give some context to the GC quote that people want to throw around.

12/15/2012 07:11 PMPosted by Anarri
World first arguments are very valuable, provided they're taken in the proper context. Given a little diligence, such arguments can actually be the strongest evidence for or against the viability of a particular spec.


To some extent it can be, but people like to forget that people in top guilds are still people, and have their own biases and opinions that effect what raid comps they run. It's not strictly about min/maxing, at least not in the way most people think about it, and can come down to external factors that don't have much to do with healer balance at all. Granted this doesn't say much about why a specific spec/class gets sat, just that it's not as cut and dry as people make it out to be.
90 Troll Druid
15055
I would love to see Wild Mushrooms tweaked around so they're worth using. Like making them put up an absorb rather than just raw healing.

Healing Touch (outside of NS) and Nourish are not so good either. If they don't want us to spam Rejuv then make those spells usable. Nourish's healing output is low for it's mana cost and cast time. Regrowth seems far superior to use than Healing Touch due to Regrowth healing for the same (if not more) amount as well as proccing Living Seed (if you use the glyph).

I would love to use HoTs more as a druid though, but absorbs make them less useful. I noticed that pallies have a better uptime with Eternal Flame than we have with Rejuv. For the high cost of Rejuv, the duration should be put back to 18 seconds (Eternal Flame is 30s duration).

Bringing back Revitalize would be amazing.
85 Night Elf Druid
0
12/15/2012 07:43 PMPosted by Stormingire
under this assumption healer balance isn't all that off.


But it is, and that's the point. The only way you can arrive at the conclusion that druids are fine is if you start with a false premise. You could argue that druids are the baseline against which the other specs are measured, but you can't argue with any veracity that druids are balanced in the current state of things.

12/15/2012 07:44 PMPosted by Ayuuxo
Bringing back Revitalize would be amazing.


No. It. Would. Not.

Do people really not remember why it was removed to begin with?
100 Night Elf Druid
14140
Only world first that truly matter are end bosses.


Are you sure it isn't only world first end bosses killed on a Tuesday during the last week of the month by guilds that start with the letter P?

Quite the logic, just go ahead and ignore that the two premier US guilds, who 10/16 first kill including one end boss, who have historically had some of the best Druids ,did not use one single druid this whole tier.

Brilliant...
Edited by Fangthorn on 12/15/2012 8:49 PM PST
100 Orc Shaman
HC
19345
12/15/2012 08:42 PMPosted by Fangthorn
Only world first that truly matter are end bosses.


Are you sure it isn't only world first end bosses killed on a Tuesday during the last week of the month by guilds that start with the letter P?

Quite the logic, just go ahead and ignore that the two premier US guilds, who nabbed onbe end boss world first and 10/16 total, who have historically had some of the best Druids ,did not use one single druid this whole tier.

Brilliant...


I thought you were ignoring me? No point in arguing you're obviously too emotionally involved w/ this so I'll let you be.
Edited by Sensations on 12/15/2012 8:48 PM PST
100 Night Elf Druid
14140
Translation: I can't defend my arguments.
100 Troll Shaman
16325
12/15/2012 08:03 PMPosted by Anarri
But it is, and that's the point. The only way you can arrive at the conclusion that druids are fine is if you start with a false premise. You could argue that druids are the baseline against which the other specs are measured, but you can't argue with any veracity that druids are balanced in the current state of things.


What I'm saying is that if you look at things without including the specs that are considered OP you can judge more accurately whether or not it's the spec is undertuned or actually in-line with the "balanced" specs. That's not the case with resto druids right now and I never said it was. All I said was that if you compare them to the specs that are considered "balanced" that they aren't all that far from the mark.

Again this is all with reference to the GC quote. This isn't a way to approach balance, only to give more insight on how one can arrive at that conclusion that was presented. Balancing classes under assumptions and exclusions isn't something I am advocating, only using them as a way to get more insight on how far off things are relative to each other.
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