Resto druid pve

Dewan: Thats why i sayd we should reroll.

We need things to be on par with other healers, but they will not change us because they believe we are fine.
No amount of posts will change that, even more with druids that lack a united voice on forums.
90 Tauren Druid
14415
I would advise not rerolling 'till we see what's coming in 5.2, only GC said we're fine, there are countless other developers that may think we need help, if we don't get anything big coming our way in 5.2 then yes it will probably be time to consider rerolling. If you reroll now and gear up another toon you may be sad when you see mushrooms get a 50% healing buff and come running back to Druid and you're out 3 months of gear.
100 Night Elf Druid
14140
I have never claimed the sky was falling.


Maybe not explicitly, but your tone screams it in every post you write. If you were honestly doing nothing more than a fact check, why did you word your posts so strongly?

So arguing about druids being brought to progression is a bit silly when I am in fact one of those druids, don't you think?'

Seriously...


You're dangerously close to the progression card, Fangthorn. We've done this dance before, you know that no one cares how progressed you are.


My tone is that of frustration. I have been posting on this subject since early beta, and I am especially annoyed with the lack of attention to Mushrooms, a spell I really looked forward to.

But I have repeatedly said we are OK, that I am raiding as a druid and that we ONLY need some slight tweaks to out toolkit and scaling,

Do not try and twist my words by some personal perception YOU have of my posting.

As for the progression, you missed the point entirely. We have never "done this dance before" Anarri. I never bring up my personal progression, or insert it into discussions to make myself seem superior. I only it then to show that I obviously must think we are "viable", since I do it every week. I did not say it made me special.. come on I know you have better comprehension than that. And really, "progression card", lol...

Also:

Here are some interesting numbers on Heroic Empress healer composition. Forget HPS, here is the number of ranks. Not top ranks, just ranks period, i.e. #155, #120 and #64 are the lowest on that fight. It caps at 200:

Priests: 200+
Shaman: 200+
H Pallies: 155
Monks: 120
Druids: 64

This has always been the point I was making, and the one Sensations has tried to ignore because one top guild uses druids. We are being dropped for other classes and healers are main switching in 25s. It is pretty common knowledge, except with people in this forum who are in denial. This fight is especially important in looking at the healer spread, because it is an 8 healer fight. All main spec healers are used, no healers are benched, and none would be used as OS.

This means you are looking at the makeup of current healing rosters. It is quite sad, very few resto druids are progression raiding right now. Honestly, I can't remember ever seeing it this low.
Edited by Fangthorn on 12/17/2012 9:16 AM PST
90 Night Elf Druid
12410
Fang...I get your point and many have been trying to make the same point that boils down to "We have mana problems + we need a burst heal + we are not scaling well + fix those darn shrooms!!" which all equals "Starting to fall behind" . All of this and unfortunately I still hear crickets.

FYI..as someone who has been reading the forums for a long time don't try to argue with any of The Clique it will just be an exhausting and frustrating effort in futility. Just stick to the point you are trying to make and keep the thread going.

Guys! Don't forget to upvote! Maybe with enough upvotes we will get attention.
100 Orc Shaman
HC
19345
This has always been the point I was making, and the one Sensations has tried to ignore because one top guild uses druids. We are being dropped for other classes and healers are main switching in 25s.


Please don't tell me what I ignore or my opinion on the topic. I don't get into the raid size disparity discussion because of the simple fact it's not worth getting into as the truth won't matter only the emotions on what raid size the current player raids. Also you're probably the only Druid who cares about 25 which is why it's as well hard for me to have a discussion about it when majority of Druids acting as if the sky is falling are 10.

So again, don't think you know why I post. If you want to know though, you may always ask.
90 Worgen Druid
One
7315
Dont wait for 5.2 to reroll.
Make/Level a healing alt now so you have the option to change mains if 5.2 doesnt bring anything.
I suggest priest since holy has a lot of the toolkit which ideally druid should have.
Not to mention if disc gets nerfed you could expect atleast a small buff to holy.
85 Night Elf Druid
0
My tone is that of frustration. I have been posting on this subject since early beta, and I am especially annoyed with the lack of attention to Mushrooms, a spell I really looked forward to.

But I have repeatedly said we are OK, that I am raiding as a druid and that we ONLY need some slight tweaks to out toolkit and scaling,


I don't care about any of that, Fangthorn. I know druids have problems, both mechanical and numerical, and on several occasions I've given my thoughts on fixing those problems. Don't think that I'm ignoring the problems, or that I'm trying to purposefully obstruct discussion of the problems to serve some personal vendetta, or to feed my own ego, but know that right now I'm not criticizing your arguments. I'm criticizing your tone, which borders on infantile at times.

And I get that you're frustrated. You have every right to be frustrated over problems that shouldn't have even made it to 5.0.5, but this is Blizzard we're talking about. They run WoW from their own little fantasy world, and the best we can do to reach them is to speak in a clear, unified voice. "OMG look how bad druids are gaiz!!" isn't going to get our problems solved.

12/17/2012 08:33 AMPosted by Fangthorn
As for the progression, you missed the point entirely. We have never "done this dance before" Anarri.


Oh, I understood your point, I just ignored it because it was weak. And I can pull quotes of us "doing this dance" if you'd like.

12/17/2012 08:33 AMPosted by Fangthorn
Honestly, I can't remember ever seeing it this low.


And this is exactly what I mean when I criticize your tone. This sentence serves no purpose other than to express your personal displeasure over the current state of things, totally bereft of argument and evidence. If you're gonna say something like this, at least attempt to give it some degree of veracity.

12/17/2012 12:05 PMPosted by Betadruid
The situation really isn't that hard to figure out. The traditional niche of restoration druids is raid healing. Holy paladins got raid healing tools in 4.3. Then intellect was made static, thereby nerfing innervate because the spell could no longer scale like rapture type effects. Then mistweavers were introduced in 5.0 forcing druids to share our niche with a whole new healing class that uses the same gear and doesn't suffer our weaknesses.


Uhh... what?

I get what you're going for, but none of this is even remotely correct.
Edited by Anarri on 12/17/2012 12:28 PM PST
90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
Forced? I don't think we've reached that point yet =\

edit: How can you guys possibly think we're as bad as we were in the beginning tier(s) of Cata? We were so bad then. Both 10 and 25m guilds refused to bring resto druids at that time. We were terrible in both, for mechanics and talents of the class we couldn't make up for in different stats like we can now (stacking spirit). Whereas most of our issues revolve around mana atm, we can make up for it by working towards high spirit levels. We don't gain the benefit of other secondary stats as much as other healers do since our toolset relies so heavily on one spell that costs a ton of mana. But, at least we can do something about our mana issues to begin with. We could do nothing to make us more worthwhile back then, it was completely an all-around issue with our spec.

And you think what we're going through right now, is worse than that?
Edited by Fleurs on 12/17/2012 12:34 PM PST
And again Anarri and Fleurs destroying any kind of unity that the druid community tries to accomplish. Thank you for that.

Can't both of you understand that every time you try to nitpick parts of argument to destroy someone else post, you derail the thread?
We have problems, we need solutions, and we cant make the same noise other classes did when they needed help, because people like both of you.

I dont care if the arguments are consistent. I dont care if there is logic or mathematical proof.
This game is about having FUN playing it.

If druids are not having FUN because they think their class SUCK, and most of top druids agree, and other healers too, and raid leaders change us to Boomkins, then we have a problem

I dont care if its THAT BAD, as the start of cataclysm or not. ITS BAD RIGHT NOW.

If someone says we are the worst healers of the world, and that he has 0 fun playing druid, and that he loved it in the past, and that it now sucks and can't heal for ****, its HIS PERCEPTION of his class, i do not care if its the universal truth, or if math agrees with him.

If the majority is unhappy with the state of the class, then we have a BIG problem.
Be that numerical, or simple QoL.
Something needs to change if most of the players of a class think their class need changes and is on bad spot right now.

We dont need complete mathematical based posts, full of logic, blizzard just ignores it every time.
They say we are "FINE" when we show then mathematical proof that they are wrong, the only thing they will hear is when people say they are UNHAPPY with the game, when lots of players complain that they are not having FUN anymore, then things will change.

In the end, this game is about fun.

If both of you cant understand that, i would gently ask for you to stop posting on topics about the resto druid viability. I'm sincerely asking you two, and others like both of you to stop trying to destroy what lesser sense of unity we can accomplish here.

Stop trying to prove you are right, and you know things when top players disagree with both of you. Stop calling people child, when your own arguments are flawed and you act as paladins of "reason" on a game forum.

I'm tired of this discussion every time, with the same people derailing the thread every time, and destroying our feedback.

I dont care what is the TRUTH, people here are showing what THEY FEEL about their class.
So please... stop.
90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
Satan, not going to bother with answering to a lot of the obscenities in your post. But, I'd like to "gently" ask you to read through my posts on this thread/topic and see how most, if not all, of what I've said is completely relevant.

You and many others have claimed the sky is falling, based upon your tone. You feel very strongly about the current state of rdruids and based upon your experience, that this is going to basically cause death to all trees.

I do not see how it's irrelevant to point out to you that we are most definitely not in that bad of a state, because we've been there before in the start of Cata. And we are not even close to that state yet. Yet, meaning that if things go unchanged, it could lead to that considering we're the only healer that doesn't scale... But it's not happening now.

That does not imply that there are no issues, because as I've stated before in many previous posts, there are. I've stated what issues there are and reasons why, along with possible solutions.

Please don't say that none of this is relevant. Because it is. And when I've tried to set aside my ego on this topic, just to have someone like you come in flailing and claim the sky is falling every single time you contribute, it's hard not to tell you to sit the !@#$ down and chill out. You have not done much except vent and whine, saying that that's what us druids need to do in order to get our problems addressed.

So, excuse me, but I disagree with you. I refuse to lower myself to the levels of 90% of the priests who cried in the beginning of this xpac. You can go ahead and stoop to that low if you like, but don't get upset when others tell you to go back into your corner.

Anyway, just because I-- and maybe Anarri was well-- disagree with you does not mean what we're saying is irrelevant.
85 Night Elf Druid
0
12/17/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Sàtàn
destroying our feedback.


You realize that your "feedback" boils down to "moar mana moar burst," right?

12/17/2012 01:09 PMPosted by Betadruid
It's time for you two to stop talking down the sorry state of your own class and start paying attention to what the logs are demonstrating.


Oh, I'm talking the problems down, am I?

Are you a "talk first, read later" type of poster, or are you the type that just doesn't read?
90 Human Priest
15435
Fixed my resto druid problem

<--- went disc priest? :P

No I will keep raiding on my druid in the core group, but it IS tempting......
90 Blood Elf Mage
17065
Just an observation: You guys seem to be saying almost the same things, and are just niggling at each other about tone.
Edited by Taymage on 12/17/2012 2:53 PM PST
100 Orc Shaman
HC
19345

Can't both of you understand that every time you try to nitpick parts of argument to destroy someone else post, you derail the thread?
We have problems, we need solutions, and we cant make the same noise other classes did when they needed help, because people like both of you.

I dont care if the arguments are consistent. I dont care if there is logic or mathematical proof.
This game is about having FUN playing it.


If you only want to hear people support your argument then go to the Druid forums, a thread has a much higher success of having a positive impact on Developers when it's not and I quote from them, "an echo chamber." Having everyone agree with you, or having everyone disagree with you isn't going to make your thread any more noticed by the developers, they don't need your math and they don't need your miniscule sample sized statistics(I know you posted fun, but sadly you're a minority when it comes to other druids recognizing the problem so this post isn't as aimed at you).

What they need is constructive feedback about the class issues you feel effect it the most, what makes it not enjoyable to play. But you also should be able to defend your argument and not dismiss entire points because it will shoot down a point you're trying to make. It's not about being right or wrong it's about experience.

Acting like the sky is falling and telling people to re-roll also isn't going to help you in any way. Unless you're in a top 20 guild your class has very little meaning to the outcome of a heroic kill and if you're having problems healing then it's a player issue and not a class issue(And for people who have comprehension issues, I'm not saying Druids don't need help mainly in 25s). Blizzard already said they're going to look into mushrooms, and when they fix mushrooms that will be a buff in it's own and they will probably help elsewhere but you also can't have unrealistic expectations.

Druids are more than fine, optimal? Probably not but it won't matter much if you're a good player. Just don't expect to get burst heals either outside of a mushroom fix, it's your only major flaw and it can't be fixed without causing raid-wide balance issue.
Edited by Sensations on 12/17/2012 3:17 PM PST
100 Tauren Druid
21405
12/17/2012 02:53 PMPosted by Taymage
Just an observation: You guys seem to be saying almost the same things, and are just niggling at each other about tone.

The thing is, tone can make a huge difference the reception of the ideas. If the tone is simply, "We suck, you suck because we suck, so screw you, I am going elsewhere," that is unlikely to bring about the changes that most can agree are wanted.
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