Resto druid pve

90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
These threads are starting to pop up faster and faster.

There's only two possible problems with Druids versus other healers:

They have no spammable AoE heal. Their AoE is dependent on a single target spell. It's not necessarily a bad thing because it's what gives Druids their fantastic mobility (which yes, is a utility), but leaves them hanging off to dry on fights with quick intervals of AoE.

Possibility #2 is Druids just need more gear than other healers. I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but Druids will likely all have the 15.66% haste threshold next tier and still have a good chunk of Mastery/Spi/Int. Could future breakpoints possibly be the cause of feeling weaker now? Just throwing darts at a wall.
90 Night Elf Druid
12925
These threads are starting to pop up faster and faster.

There's only two possible problems with Druids versus other healers:

They have no spammable AoE heal. Their AoE is dependent on a single target spell. It's not necessarily a bad thing because it's what gives Druids their fantastic mobility (which yes, is a utility), but leaves them hanging off to dry on fights with quick intervals of AoE.

Possibility #2 is Druids just need more gear than other healers. I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but Druids will likely all have the 15.66% haste threshold next tier and still have a good chunk of Mastery/Spi/Int. Could future breakpoints possibly be the cause of feeling weaker now? Just throwing darts at a wall.


Unfortunately, the next WG Haste breakpoint won't have as significant of an impact on our healing as it did back in Cataclysm because WG no longer makes up such a huge portion of our healing. This became the case ever since Blizz nerfed WG post-T12 and gave us a reworked version of the WG glyph. Back then WG was easily 30-40% of our healing done. Now it's lucky to be 20%.
No, in Dragon Soul WG was at least 25% of my healing done, maybe more.

I think Tiriel may be right about the haste breakpoint, actually. When I was doing 5-mans last tier (around Dragon Soul, well after the WG nerf) and I got groups with the 5% haste buff, I did way more healing than groups without the haste buff. Getting that breakpoint made a big difference to me.

But even getting the breakpoint, that just makes our HPS cover up a mechanical problem -- spammable burst aoe.
Edited by Heartsings on 12/1/2012 10:24 AM PST
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
12/01/2012 10:24 AMPosted by Heartsings
I think Tiriel may be right about the haste breakpoint, actually.


That was Quess. :)
90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
That was Quess. :)


We don't even look alike! D;
90 Night Elf Druid
4060
Well that was quite a frothy response. Where's the guy who said Druids are tank healers now? Yes in a 10 man you heal everything, but being tank-focused is still something that exists. Rejuv on a tank is never a waste. Rejuv during aoe pulsing damage is never a waste. Rejuv in other situations are sometimes, (often?) wasted. Oh except if you're setting up swiftmend. Otherwise don't be so quick to go to Rejuv you're already aware that it just gets sniped......

Tell your fellow healers to enable the option that lets you see other healers spells on your raid frames, and then ask them to cast smaller heals on hotted targets. Seriously, it will help you and them to be more efficient and they will save mana. Unless it is all just a big heal fight for HPS meter glory they will be happy to oblige.

But gosh is it frustrating that nourish costs how it does because I'd love to have SOMETHING that I can spam thoughtlessly during relatively low damage phases. But alas, druids have to play well to conserve mana. Who'da thunk.
90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
12/01/2012 11:24 AMPosted by Qùess
That was Quess. :)


We don't even look alike! D;


ARE YOU SAYING I'M NOT AS PRETTY, QUESS?
Filthy blood elves all look alike >.>

REMEMBER THERAMORE!!
90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
12/01/2012 11:30 AMPosted by Tiriél
ARE YOU SAYING I'M NOT AS PRETTY, QUESS?


I'm the fairest of them all.
No, in Dragon Soul WG was at least 25% of my healing done, maybe more.

I think Tiriel may be right about the haste breakpoint, actually. When I was doing 5-mans last tier (around Dragon Soul, well after the WG nerf) and I got groups with the 5% haste buff, I did way more healing than groups without the haste buff. Getting that breakpoint made a big difference to me.

But even getting the breakpoint, that just makes our HPS cover up a mechanical problem -- spammable burst aoe.


Do some math. No matter what gear, the hast breakpoint for WG is worst them the same value invested in Mastery.
Its a useless stats for us right now that WG heals for only 20-25% of our total healing.
Even more useless if you use SoTF.

There will be no magic gear breakpoint that will make us scale better in MoP. People that think otherwise are delusional, and need to do some math to see for themselves. We can get the breakpoint right now, we choose not to do so because its worse stats we can invest.
And no, with more gear, we will not have "enough" stats to invest in haste and suddenly become good healers, no, math says otherwise, if we do really have to invest in haste it will be a lose of throughput compared to mastery at any gear level, and it will only make we scale less then we should, not more.

Oh, and btw, Fleurs, you here again? Try contructive posts, because i seen none from you and Anarri this entire time, 0 logic, 0 proofs, 0 everything, only delusional denial of what is happening, and what everyone is noticing every day getting worse.
(Oh id like to note that since 5.1 druids instead of improving because of monk nerfs keep falling even more in comparison with other healers)
Edited by Sàtàn on 12/1/2012 12:17 PM PST
90 Pandaren Monk
0
Thats because there is always 1-2 that keep trying to defend that we are all right.

They use the argument that we are "middle pack" in meters to try to show "how good we are now", when in fact we all know that we are the last or second last healer, and that because of the lack of Raid damage reduction CDs, and the fact that our utilities were given to many other classes, and that symbiosis is weak and is better used from a bear or boomkin, and the fact that hots are inherently worse then direct heals, we NEED to be on top of HPS to be competitive.

I would bring a Disc priest, or Holy pally any day instead of a druid to my raid right now.
Better raid CD's, better mana regen, direct heals, descent AOE...

Even on spreaded fights, where we should be at the top, since many here claims that we are the kings of raid healing when people are spreaded, we lose to those classes.

If you want to keep yourself in denial, ok. Keep saying to yourself that we are ok, and maybe in 5.2 you will lose your raid spot.
Being a raid leader myself, i really wish i picked a different healer to play this expansion.
Even shaman that is tied with us at the logs, are better then us. Spirit Link totem is a OP raid CD, and Mana tide is an amazing mana CD for all healers on the raid, dont ever try to compare Symbiosis, Ironbark, Tranquility (HTT is better because not channeled) and bress, with what shamans brings with SL, HTT, MT, BL, and totem buffs.

The fact stands, we are the wort healers right now, because we can only bring RAW HPS, but our Raw HPS is in the best case middle pack, so why bring a druid instead of a disc priest, holy pally, shaman?? Monks at last still are the king of HPS even with nerfs, so they are useful in their own niche.

For me HPS should be: Monks > Druids = Holy Priest >> Paladin = Shaman > Disc Priest

I agree with this because monks have little control over their healing, where as druids have complete control over it. But I would say monks and druids should be close. Either way, they should both be over paladins because pallies are the literal gods of tank healing. Rsham CD's make them extremely useful because they make everyone else more effective (spirit link I'm looking at you) though I would probably put them above paladins, and disc is just ridiculous at absorbing damage and making it easier to heal through the "burst damage" phases, so I would put them lowest on "raw hps" because of their amazing utility.
Sadly, its more like
disc>paladin>rsham=monk~>holy priest> rdruid in effective HPS.
In raw HPS its currently something like
monk > rsham>hpal>disc>holy priest>rdruid.
However raw HPS is rarely how meters actually look, esp. since monks lack any smart heals, a lot of rsham HR is overheal, and absorbs are almost always 100% effective in most raid fights where it matters now.
90 Tauren Druid
8710

I agree with this because monks have little control over their healing, where as druids have complete control over it.


Yeah, I stopped reading there. Nonsense.

If you're going to compare healing mechanics in a vacuum; Other than Rejuv blankets which for most druids are incredibly rare/not sustainable, our raid wide healing is up to the AI. We push a button and it goes whereever it goes. (WG, Efflo; with efflo being even more limited in aoe target cap + ground placement = if raid isn't stacked, its utterly pathetic)
90 Orc Shaman
HC
16485
Thats because there is always 1-2 that keep trying to defend that we are all right.

They use the argument that we are "middle pack" in meters to try to show "how good we are now", when in fact we all know that we are the last or second last healer, and that because of the lack of Raid damage reduction CDs, and the fact that our utilities were given to many other classes, and that symbiosis is weak and is better used from a bear or boomkin, and the fact that hots are inherently worse then direct heals, we NEED to be on top of HPS to be competitive.

I would bring a Disc priest, or Holy pally any day instead of a druid to my raid right now.
Better raid CD's, better mana regen, direct heals, descent AOE...

Even on spreaded fights, where we should be at the top, since many here claims that we are the kings of raid healing when people are spreaded, we lose to those classes.

If you want to keep yourself in denial, ok. Keep saying to yourself that we are ok, and maybe in 5.2 you will lose your raid spot.
Being a raid leader myself, i really wish i picked a different healer to play this expansion.
Even shaman that is tied with us at the logs, are better then us. Spirit Link totem is a OP raid CD, and Mana tide is an amazing mana CD for all healers on the raid, dont ever try to compare Symbiosis, Ironbark, Tranquility (HTT is better because not channeled) and bress, with what shamans brings with SL, HTT, MT, BL, and totem buffs.

The fact stands, we are the wort healers right now, because we can only bring RAW HPS, but our Raw HPS is in the best case middle pack, so why bring a druid instead of a disc priest, holy pally, shaman?? Monks at last still are the king of HPS even with nerfs, so they are useful in their own niche.

For me HPS should be: Monks > Druids = Holy Priest >> Paladin = Shaman > Disc Priest


I agree, Druids bring absolutely nothing worthwhile I mean world first guilds didn't bring them to the most important kills this tier/majority. These are the guilds who take a class because it has USES, not because their players like playing them.
Edited by Sensations on 12/1/2012 6:05 PM PST
90 Pandaren Monk
0

I agree with this because monks have little control over their healing, where as druids have complete control over it.


Yeah, I stopped reading there. Nonsense.

If you're going to compare healing mechanics in a vacuum; Other than Rejuv blankets which for most druids are incredibly rare/not sustainable, our raid wide healing is up to the AI. We push a button and it goes whereever it goes. (WG, Efflo; with efflo being even more limited in aoe target cap + ground placement = if raid isn't stacked, its utterly pathetic)


You think that smart heals are less controlled than what MW do? You've obviously never played a MW, and you're obviously lacking respect because the next sentence I said they should be equal regardless, because they're both forms of throughput healers lacking utility and great control over who they heal.

But please, go on and insult and disrespect someone trying to help you, I'm sure it will help your cause.

When you remove the blinders, maybe others will support your cause.
90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
No, in Dragon Soul WG was at least 25% of my healing done, maybe more.

I think Tiriel may be right about the haste breakpoint, actually. When I was doing 5-mans last tier (around Dragon Soul, well after the WG nerf) and I got groups with the 5% haste buff, I did way more healing than groups without the haste buff. Getting that breakpoint made a big difference to me.

But even getting the breakpoint, that just makes our HPS cover up a mechanical problem -- spammable burst aoe.


Do some math. No matter what gear, the hast breakpoint for WG is worst them the same value invested in Mastery.
Its a useless stats for us right now that WG heals for only 20-25% of our total healing.
Even more useless if you use SoTF.

There will be no magic gear breakpoint that will make us scale better in MoP. People that think otherwise are delusional, and need to do some math to see for themselves. We can get the breakpoint right now, we choose not to do so because its worse stats we can invest.
And no, with more gear, we will not have "enough" stats to invest in haste and suddenly become good healers, no, math says otherwise, if we do really have to invest in haste it will be a lose of throughput compared to mastery at any gear level, and it will only make we scale less then we should, not more.

Oh, and btw, Fleurs, you here again? Try contructive posts, because i seen none from you and Anarri this entire time, 0 logic, 0 proofs, 0 everything, only delusional denial of what is happening, and what everyone is noticing every day getting worse.
(Oh id like to note that since 5.1 druids instead of improving because of monk nerfs keep falling even more in comparison with other healers)

k
90 Troll Druid
18095
Thats because there is always 1-2 that keep trying to defend that we are all right.

They use the argument that we are "middle pack" in meters to try to show "how good we are now", when in fact we all know that we are the last or second last healer, and that because of the lack of Raid damage reduction CDs, and the fact that our utilities were given to many other classes, and that symbiosis is weak and is better used from a bear or boomkin, and the fact that hots are inherently worse then direct heals, we NEED to be on top of HPS to be competitive.

I would bring a Disc priest, or Holy pally any day instead of a druid to my raid right now.
Better raid CD's, better mana regen, direct heals, descent AOE...

Even on spreaded fights, where we should be at the top, since many here claims that we are the kings of raid healing when people are spreaded, we lose to those classes.

If you want to keep yourself in denial, ok. Keep saying to yourself that we are ok, and maybe in 5.2 you will lose your raid spot.
Being a raid leader myself, i really wish i picked a different healer to play this expansion.
Even shaman that is tied with us at the logs, are better then us. Spirit Link totem is a OP raid CD, and Mana tide is an amazing mana CD for all healers on the raid, dont ever try to compare Symbiosis, Ironbark, Tranquility (HTT is better because not channeled) and bress, with what shamans brings with SL, HTT, MT, BL, and totem buffs.

The fact stands, we are the wort healers right now, because we can only bring RAW HPS, but our Raw HPS is in the best case middle pack, so why bring a druid instead of a disc priest, holy pally, shaman?? Monks at last still are the king of HPS even with nerfs, so they are useful in their own niche.

For me HPS should be: Monks > Druids = Holy Priest >> Paladin = Shaman > Disc Priest


I agree, Druids bring absolutely nothing worthwhile I mean world first guilds didn't bring them to the most important kills this tier/majority. These are the guilds who take a class because it has USES, not because their players like playing them.


This is something that needs to be addressed. While our actual throughput isn't bad, there's just absolutely no reason to recruit a resto druid over a MW monk, or even a Resto Shammy. Homogenization killed our spec.


Do some math. No matter what gear, the hast breakpoint for WG is worst them the same value invested in Mastery.
Its a useless stats for us right now that WG heals for only 20-25% of our total healing.
Even more useless if you use SoTF.

There will be no magic gear breakpoint that will make us scale better in MoP. People that think otherwise are delusional, and need to do some math to see for themselves. We can get the breakpoint right now, we choose not to do so because its worse stats we can invest.
And no, with more gear, we will not have "enough" stats to invest in haste and suddenly become good healers, no, math says otherwise, if we do really have to invest in haste it will be a lose of throughput compared to mastery at any gear level, and it will only make we scale less then we should, not more.

Oh, and btw, Fleurs, you here again? Try contructive posts, because i seen none from you and Anarri this entire time, 0 logic, 0 proofs, 0 everything, only delusional denial of what is happening, and what everyone is noticing every day getting worse.
(Oh id like to note that since 5.1 druids instead of improving because of monk nerfs keep falling even more in comparison with other healers)

k


Quoting game?

No, WG doesnt represents more then 20% of our overall healing in MoP.
Even if it DID happen to be 30% of our healing, 30% x 1.125 = its a 3.75% increase in our healing.
This will cost us ~3600 of Haste.
This amount of Mastery increase our healings by 7.5%.
Even if you have 50% from mastery, and that is an impossible value, you will still increase your total healing by 5% against 3.75% from reaching the next WG haste cap.
This is the WORST hypothetical situation for Mastery, and a good one for WG...

To be EQUALS, you would need 50% of mastery, and WG would need to account for ~45% of our healing to make it in pair.
In a realistic valur of Mastery, its completly impossible.
So LEARN MATH, before you try to spit misinformation here plz.

I'm tired of you trying to counter arguments with either personal attacks, circular logic, or flawed arguments, without any kind of proof.

This theorycrafting was already being made many times in different places including EJ. If you didnt know about that, and didnt even wanted to do the math to see the truth about our hast caps, then plz stop trying to discuss with people that did.
90 Troll Druid
11690
The mushroom issue isn't an easy problem they can hotfix away. If there was a patch tomorrow where they were buffed 20% or even 50%, we'd still be complaining about them. Yes they can be mana efficient if used optimally, but time required to use them is prohibitive. Also, the preplanning can be a bit rough. You cannot simply place them on a stacked group. You have to have them already placed where you expect the group to stack sometime in the future.
85 Night Elf Druid
0
Try contructive posts, because i seen none from you and Anarri this entire time, 0 logic, 0 proofs, 0 everything


At least do the diligence of reading my posts before inviting me to tear you a new one.
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