Spec change based on weapons

90 Orc Death Knight
9180
I'm currently playing Master Frost. I have a 489 Starshatter and a 483 Shin'Ka Execution of Dominion in my bags. Should I switch to 2H frost based on my 489 Starshatter being possibly greater than my current DW weapons? Additionally would raid finder Sha touched weapons be better due to the Strength Legendary Gem, which I most likely will have this week. For instance would 483 Shin'Ka Execution of Dominion > 489 Starshatter because of the 500 strength gem? Usually weapon base dmg is my first concern... I would like to stay DW and with some luck I will pick up 1 or 2 one handed weapons this week, that is, if the RNG gods favor me. LOL

Also if I don't get a sha touched 1 hander this week, would 2h frost be better for me if I use 483 Shin'Ka Execution of Dominion to equip my legendary gem? I think ultimately I will go back to DW once I get the weapons, DW is better to begin with and 2 legendary gems can't beat that!! I just answered my own question didn't I... ^_^
Edited by Havock on 12/3/2012 12:10 PM PST
Reply Quote
100 Draenei Death Knight
12645
Yeah you pretty much did.

While I haven't yet done the math to measure Starshatter vs Shinka, I believe SS would be better because of the weapon damage. I could be wrong though, I'd advise doing the math for yourself to see what works best.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Death Knight
9180
Its really a question of about 900 base dmg vs 500 Strength. But then after we answer that, how does it stack up against DW ya know. I feel like Sims don't exactly simulate spellweaving all that well. So I have a hard time following sims. If you go just by Base dmg between DW and 2H its 1800(2H) < 1900 (collective DW). Shin'ka would be 1700 base damage
Edited by Havock on 12/3/2012 12:38 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Death Knight
13745
Dual wielding won't get you two legendary gems, they're unique-equipped.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Death Knight
9180
Oh rly, thx, good to know. So what do I do with the second sha touched gem slot? It just stays empty thats kind of weak, though I see how DW would be unfair vs 2H spec.
Edited by Havock on 12/3/2012 12:39 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Death Knight
13745
It stays empty, I believe unlike normal gem slots it is not taken from the budget of the item.
Reply Quote
90 Gnome Death Knight
6210
if you can afford it easily you can try seeing if you can put +500 agility into your off hand for that extra 0.1% crit. lol (no idea if you can or not)

and 489 starshatter is better than 483 shinka even with the gem.
Edited by Aldmos on 12/3/2012 5:13 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Orc Death Knight
9180
Ok thx, so then my final question what do you think is better? Starshatter 2h frost or my current dw?
Reply Quote
100 Draenei Death Knight
12645
12/04/2012 12:52 AMPosted by Havock
Ok thx, so then my final question what do you think is better? Starshatter 2h frost or my current dw?

From a technical standpoint, a 489 Starshatter would be a DPS improvement. However it also depends on how well you can play the spec.

And I know how annoying it is when people comment on gear without it being asked for, but I just gotta. When going DW, gem Str/Mastery in yellow, Str/hit in blue, and Str in red. Gemming for expertise or pure hit is a DPS loss.
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
Theres also fight specifics, any fight you're hitting more than 1 enemy in (especially for extended periods of time), you'll want to be masterfrost if close.

Even if you're downgrading, masterfrost is significantly ahead for fights like Windlord and Garalon.

Also, the Sha touched sword and the scimitar are equal in stats, except the gem allows you to SLIGHTLY (~80 pts) manipulate your stats into hit better
Edited by Postonforums on 12/4/2012 1:19 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Orc Death Knight
9180
12/04/2012 01:09 AMPosted by Serrias
And I know how annoying it is when people comment on gear without it being asked for, but I just gotta. When going DW, gem Str/Mastery in yellow, Str/hit in blue, and Str in red. Gemming for expertise or pure hit is a DPS loss.

The Hit/expertise gems are necessary or I would be under cap as I am low on both due to my attempt to equip as much mastery gear as possible. I realize its a strength loss. Additionally, from what I have read, I should Reforge mastery and Gem haste/strength because I'm low on haste until 509 ilvl. I have been tempted to go back to mastery due to the haste change not making the difference its supposed to in theory! I also noticed you, yourself are gemming haste now too.

Edit: So I switched back to Mastery/strength gems because haste doesn't seem to be a dps increase for me. I understand the lack of Haste is a problem till 509 ilvl, but I'm not seeing a difference...sooo !@#$ it. Also My armory is not updated because of maintenance. Check back soon...
Edited by Havock on 12/4/2012 6:31 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Human Death Knight
14005
I would go back to SS 2h. That scimitar you got is a tanky sword. It's got a lot of str missing on it (much less than your 476 lfr axe). Weapon DPS scales MUCH higher than str. You migh see increases on pure cleave fights as dw, but for single target your 2h setup would come out a clear winner.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Death Knight
14890
12/04/2012 08:36 AMPosted by Scyzek
I would go back to SS 2h. That scimitar you got is a tanky sword. It's got a lot of str missing on it (much less than your 476 lfr axe). Weapon DPS scales MUCH higher than str. You migh see increases on pure cleave fights as dw, but for single target your 2h setup would come out a clear winner.


The Scimitar isn't a tanking sword, at least not solely. It's missing a bit of Strength because it has a socket, which more than makes up for the 'missing' Strength.

Additionally, Masterfrost tops out over 2H with ideal gear, as Masterfrost scales better with gear overall compared to 2H Hastefrost. With his current gear, Havock should see similar DPS between 2H and Masterfrost, most of the differentiation being due to simple RNG.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Death Knight
9180
I switched out my tier chest for the galleon one. A lot more hit and expertise, now that Tuesday came and went with no 4 set lol. I was able to properly gem now. As far as gemming is concerned, if i switch to 2h frost, is it the same? Or all strength? Reforge I understand, Haste>crit>mastery.
Edited by Havock on 12/4/2012 12:03 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Death Knight
14890
12/04/2012 01:09 AMPosted by Serrias
And I know how annoying it is when people comment on gear without it being asked for, but I just gotta. When going DW, gem Str/Mastery in yellow, Str/hit in blue, and Str in red. Gemming for expertise or pure hit is a DPS loss.


Exp/Hit gems are our best use of Blue sockets, not Str/Hit; simple math shows that. It is most certainly not a loss.
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Death Knight
7720
I'm curious what single target dummy dps you are getting. I've been playing around going between DW mastery and 2h haste. I even tried gemming pure haste but that seemed to be a dps loss.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Death Knight
7185
Is there a haste threshold or something for masterfrost? I just switched from 2H hastefrost to this DW hastefrost build since I got 2 483 LFR 1h weapons but my dps is underwhelming. Should I replace all of my haste gems / reforges with mastery? Or do I have to keep a certain amount of haste for faster rune generating?
Reply Quote
100 Draenei Death Knight
12645
And I know how annoying it is when people comment on gear without it being asked for, but I just gotta. When going DW, gem Str/Mastery in yellow, Str/hit in blue, and Str in red. Gemming for expertise or pure hit is a DPS loss.


Exp/Hit gems are our best use of Blue sockets, not Str/Hit; simple math shows that. It is most certainly not a loss.

How on earth do you figure that?

And I know how annoying it is when people comment on gear without it being asked for, but I just gotta. When going DW, gem Str/Mastery in yellow, Str/hit in blue, and Str in red. Gemming for expertise or pure hit is a DPS loss.

The Hit/expertise gems are necessary or I would be under cap as I am low on both due to my attempt to equip as much mastery gear as possible. I realize its a strength loss. Additionally, from what I have read, I should Reforge mastery and Gem haste/strength because I'm low on haste until 509 ilvl. I have been tempted to go back to mastery due to the haste change not making the difference its supposed to in theory! I also noticed you, yourself are gemming haste now too.

Edit: So I switched back to Mastery/strength gems because haste doesn't seem to be a dps increase for me. I understand the lack of Haste is a problem till 509 ilvl, but I'm not seeing a difference...sooo !@#$ it. Also My armory is not updated because of maintenance. Check back soon...

Teehee, yeah I frequently swap back and forth between 2H frost, DW Frost, and Unholy with this gear, so I find the UH gem setup is the most flexible. As time goes on and I pick up more gear, I plan on focusing more on Frost DW, but I haven't ruled out 2H.

Also I see you reforging out of Hit and into Haste - that Hit could just as easily be converted into Expertise, freeing up your blue gem sockets for some nice old Etched Imperial Amethyst.

EDIT: Derp, you fixed the gemming stuff.
Edited by Serrias on 12/5/2012 10:50 PM PST
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
12/04/2012 08:36 AMPosted by Scyzek
I would go back to SS 2h. That scimitar you got is a tanky sword. It's got a lot of str missing on it (much less than your 476 lfr axe). Weapon DPS scales MUCH higher than str. You migh see increases on pure cleave fights as dw, but for single target your 2h setup would come out a clear winner.


the scimitar takes the strength out of it's gem budget

you end up with slightly more stats than an empty sha touched weapon if you gem a purple.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Death Knight
14890
12/05/2012 10:49 PMPosted by Serrias


Exp/Hit gems are our best use of Blue sockets, not Str/Hit; simple math shows that. It is most certainly not a loss.

How on earth do you figure that?


I'll use Elitist Jerk's stats just so we have a common base point; these numbers wont be 100% accurate for every person, but the fluctuation isn't so far off that we can't gauge similar results.

For Masterfrost:

Strength - 1
Hit - .672
Expertise - .672
Mastery - .462
Haste - .443
Crit - .334
Hit (white) - .296

Etched Imperial Amethyst - 80 Strength / 160 Hit

80 Strength = 80
160 Hit = 107.52

Total = 180.52

Accurate Imperial Amethyst - 160 Hit / 160 Expertise

160 Hit = 107.52
160 Expertise = 107.52

Total = 215.05

You might be able to account for a handful of points in fluctuation depending on a person's gear, but nothing close to the almost 35 points in differentiation shown here. There may be rare situations though were simply because of various gear setups that an Etched gem may be favored over an Accurate simply because the gear can meet the Expertise requirements perfectly, or almost perfectly without it and the Strength gain in the socket is larger than the loss would be to either go under or over cap with the extra Expertise points in the socket. However, this gain would be very small, and again rare, so it's safer to assume that an Accurate gem should be used in all Blue sockets.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]