Just got a Jaina quest, Patch 5.1 (Spoilers)

90 Night Elf Hunter
17250
Reclaiming Ashenvale? Unfair.
Fighting back and taking parts of Western Plaguelands? Unfair.
Gilneas? Unfair.


In Vanilla Ashenvale was "Contested", it's the same now.
Alliance has more of WPL than it did in Vanilla.
Gilneas is currently in Alliance control, it's just not shown in game well.

The only ACTUAL losses were:

Barrens went from Horde to Contested
Hillsbrad went from Contested to Horde
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90 Night Elf Hunter
5420
12/04/2012 09:02 PMPosted by Jetzeppelin
And its unreasonable for players to ask Blizz to care more about the story of their most important game?

Depends on if their request for more care comes at the price of other players' enjoyment.


So if it's done in the Horde's benefit, it's alright, but if it's done in the Alliance's benefit it's not alright and taking away from other players enjoyment.

Blizzard has shown it's more than willing to screw over Alliance players for Horde players. Too bad it can;t be reversed for awhile. Let the Horde suffer in game with destroyed towns and cities and the Horde not responding realistically.
Edited by Kynrind on 12/4/2012 9:19 PM PST
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It is completely dishonest to say Theramore was a catalyst for anything on Jaina's part other than a geographical move to Dalaran. Aside from her temporary breakdown that was healed by her dragon boyfriend, her base personality did not change one inch as of this patch 5.1 quest.
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Reclaiming Ashenvale? Unfair.
Fighting back and taking parts of Western Plaguelands? Unfair.
Gilneas? Unfair.


In Vanilla Ashenvale was "Contested", it's the same now.
Alliance has more of WPL than it did in Vanilla.
Gilneas is currently in Alliance control, it's just not shown in game well.

The only ACTUAL losses were:

Barrens went from Horde to Contested
Hillsbrad went from Contested to Horde


Gilneas is still contested, as per the Battle for Gilneas level 80 BG and the rogue legendary quest.

Alliance does not have more of WPL, the Argent Crusade does. The Alliance lost ground and as of now, has been pushed back to Chillwind Camp by Horde sabotage.

Barrens is, as of Tides of War, very firmly back in Horde hands. The only handhold the Alliance has is a fort that is literally a pile of rubble, and that'll probably get lost pretty quick without Theramore to supply it.
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86 Draenei Paladin
3130
12/03/2012 10:19 PMPosted by Jaelara
As of Patch 5.1, it is now officially canon that it DID NOT DO THAT. Once her dragon boyfriend talked her down, she immediately became even more neutral than ever before.


Exactly that...

I think we now need Stormwind destroyed to make Jaina come to her senses..
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90 Night Elf Priest
16345
12/04/2012 10:23 PMPosted by Sydonis
As of Patch 5.1, it is now officially canon that it DID NOT DO THAT. Once her dragon boyfriend talked her down, she immediately became even more neutral than ever before.


Exactly that...

I think we now need Stormwind destroyed to make Jaina come to her senses..


Her last thought before Garrosh's axe come crashing down her neck will be; "Maybe I should fight Garrosh now."
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90 Tauren Shaman
13310
Hey Im all for Jaina going full destroy the horde.

Then she can become a raid boss and us hordies can kill her for epic loots. Joys of a two faction system.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
14910
I'd like to point out that Jania does not wish for peace between the Horde and the Alliace right now. She wants Dalaran to remain neutral so that when the time comes to mend fences, Dalaran will be there for the two sides to link up. She's being a responsible leader...even if she has completely abandoned her prior charge, both the living and the dead of Theramore.

She's placed Dalaran on a pedestal, rightly or wrongly. She doesn't want to spoil it. I mean, at the very least, she kind of let us know she was personally in turmoil over the whole situation, unlike say Malfurion Stormrage who didn't even bat an eyelash when his people, who were still alive!, were in trouble at the hands of his allies...the Horde.
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90 Draenei Shaman
11990
12/04/2012 09:09 PMPosted by Kynrind
Blizzard has shown it's more than willing to screw over Alliance players for Horde players. Too bad it can;t be reversed for awhile. Let the Horde suffer in game with destroyed towns and cities and the Horde not responding realistically.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7200184344#20

I really doubt the WoW development team is out to screw alliance or horde.

Then she can become a raid boss and us hordies can kill her for epic loots. Joys of a two faction system.


As long as I can utterly destroy Sylvanas I might be ok with it.
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90 Human Warlock
11835
What a load of bull.

The most disorienting and disheartening thing about this game - and the lore redesigned to accommodate it - is that Azeroth is a world full of moral cowards who are basically just poorly written authorial mouthpieces, devoid of even a sliver of realistic or relateable context or counterpoise. Every time some braindead thrall chatters about neutrality in game, they are basically saying: "the two faction status quo makes us money! It can not be allowed to change! The subscriptions must flow!" I consider every one of them to be basically mind controlled by the insane Old God Meh'Zhen of the Thousand Trolls. Heaven forbid any sort of guilt or crime sticks to the karma Houdini mary sue faction that the devs touch themselves to whenever they get to work. The Horde is basically a sparkly vampire that can kill and !@*!@#@* left and right but that will always be loved. Always. And if a character don't love thy enemy, they're BAD and WRONG.

Which is only a bad thing that hurts immersion when it is so pathetically one sided.

It doesn't take a warrior culture to know better. For five thousand years here in the real world people have known that, when at all possible, it is better to end wars with overwhelming force, creating a quick transition from the conflict phase to post-conflict resolution. As WW1 taught us, among a great many other wars, extended conflicts create political environments that are difficult to mend. The multitude of so called "neutrals" in WoW are ridiculous because, as is clear to anyone, if they had actually taken part in the war - on either side - it would have been over ages ago. Instead they prologue the war by cheerfully sitting on the sidelines, no matter how this or that should offend their sensibilities or, well, endanger their families that they don't give a rat's !@# about (druids, I'm looking at you).

World of Warcraft: we were billed on a World War, but instead, we were given a Phony War, where then as now part of the "Alliance" does nothing while the other half gets steamrolled. Yet there, at least, there was the firm resolve to fight to the end, not to depose or remove ONE MAN, but to abolish the system that empowers and allows that one man to so shatter the world order. It was a war against an institution that had proven it could not coexist with its neighbors. Sadly, we all know there will be no such resolution in WoW.

We've seen how humans react to things like Theramore. We've seen, damn near a hundred bloody years after gas first hit the trenches in Ypres, how governments respond to the threat of these sorts of weapons. I wish the Alliance had the ability to break the chains of authorial bondage and respond in kind: with our own gnomish chemical weapons against the Forsaken plague, with our own mana bombs, with our own blockade.

As Bomber Harris quoted, "they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind."

My heart would sing if Orgrimmar could be isolated and left to starve. Why assault it at all? Without food and fresh water, the orcs there would succumb to starvation and dehydration and disease in a few months or less. Blood and Thunder, but no bread and water. How long before they do to Garrosh what all peoples do to leaders who lead them to ruin? Would they string him upside down to hang alongside those who supported him, like Mussolini? Or would a hungry mob simply tear him apart?

And while Orgrimmar starves, Thunder Bluff and Silvermoon and the Echo Isles can flourish and come into their own, liberated and free and independent... neutral, even. Oh, to dream that the Alliance humans would act like real human beings and not toothless, feckless caricatures. We need a Wellington, hell, we need a Napoleon, an Eisenhower, a Zhukov or Konev or Suvorov, a Caesar or even a Grant or Sherman. Anything. Instead, all we Alliance characters have are Quislings... and cowards in equal measure. How is this believable? How is this immersion? How is this interesting?

I read about people extolling their love of medieval fantasy. How do you think any medieval or even classical society would respond to this? That is what I would love. Of course... I doubt Bliz would be able to fit ten thousand crucified or impaled corpses along the road to Stormwind into the game's ERB rating. Fair enough.

But at least make the war a real war. A bloody war.

So far, for five years, it has been a joke.

Have Southshore. Have WPL. Have Theramore. Have it all.
But let there be a bloody and terrible whirlwind to come.
If only.
Edited by Sardana on 12/5/2012 2:55 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
10495
The quest chain isn't even complete. Why are people overreacting?

Jaina reinforced her efforts for neutrality at the end of Tides of War. This quest just puts that in the game. It will be the breaking of Anduin that forces her hand.

Jaina was able to manage her grief over Theramore by embracing her destiny as the new leader of Dalaran. It gave her something to distract her from her loss.

Breaking Anduin will take it all away from her because there will be nothing to numb that particular pain. It's not always the big fireworks that set someone off. As they say, it's a final straw to break the camel's back.
Edited by Musubi on 12/5/2012 4:26 AM PST
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90 Tauren Shaman
13310
12/04/2012 09:09 PMPosted by Kynrind
Blizzard has shown it's more than willing to screw over Alliance players for Horde players. Too bad it can;t be reversed for awhile. Let the Horde suffer in game with destroyed towns and cities and the Horde not responding realistically.


The grass over here is greener too. Really.

Seriously its not like its great over this side of the fence either already. I dont think you would like the situations reversing as much as you seem to think you would.

12/05/2012 01:59 AMPosted by Zerde
As long as I can utterly destroy Sylvanas I might be ok with it.


You sir, have a deal. Personally Id be keen on seeing the Hordes house properly cleaned. Sylvanas is an issue waiting to happen and if she lives through MoP, its only going to be to cause us more facepalming later on.

I seriously doubt thats going to happen though. Blizz doesnt seem able to have a horde without around half the faction leaders of a highly dodgy and quite probably backstabing nature.

Pacticularly with Thrall's epic fails in character judgement.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
8690
The quest chain isn't even complete. Why are people overreacting?


Try and imagine the mind-set that would utter these words:

You know, Pearl Harbor wasn't bad. I'm sure there are a lot of Japanese that really hate Tojo and are just looking for an excuse to fight him. Let's see what happens to our brave men on Corregidor first before we go declaring war and stuff.

Reality is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense.

People are reacting, not overreacting, because Jaina is far, far, far past stupid. If your story depends on FDR ignoring the attack on Pearl Harbor because the plot needs him to wait until the Phillipeans fall, your plot is bad.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
5420
The grass over here is greener too. Really.

Seriously its not like its great over this side of the fence either already. I dont think you would like the situations reversing as much as you seem to think you would.


I'm not discounting that a lot of Horde players hate what the Horde is now. The developers seem to like it though and you will be getting back the Horde you knew and loved. My main complaint is that the Horde, as a faction and not necessarily the players (although a good number of them are annoying because they -like- this current war and sticking it to the Alliance when they know the Alliance will not retaliate), but the entire faction that is committing massive atrocities and killing tens to hundreds of -thousands- of Alliance soldiers and civilians, and it will get away with it. -Everything- is going to be pinned on Garrosh when it was the entire Horde that helped him commit them. Every bad thing the Horde has done will be pinned on -one- man. And the rest will be getting off scott free. That's what pisses off so many Alliance players.

The entire Alliance is being painted with the same Lawful Stupid brush and will let the Horde exist as it is now because of 'necessities'. Which is utter BS. As long as the Horde is protected and rarely ever suffers any real harm, Blizzard seems fine while they take a @#$^ on the Alliance time and again. Everything seems to buff up the Horde. They STARTED THIS WAR, yet THEY get to claim to be the victims and underdogs.
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90 Troll Hunter
13130
12/05/2012 07:28 AMPosted by Kynrind
-Everything- is going to be pinned on Garrosh when it was the entire Horde that helped him commit them. Every bad thing the Horde has done will be pinned on -one- man.

But, in reality, the most likely scenario (That I can see) is that all of the people who support Garrosh will be by his side during the siege and die with him.

After all, the raid needs trash mobs.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10495
The quest chain isn't even complete. Why are people overreacting?


Try and imagine the mind-set that would utter these words:

You know, Pearl Harbor wasn't bad. I'm sure there are a lot of Japanese that really hate Tojo and are just looking for an excuse to fight him. Let's see what happens to our brave men on Corregidor first before we go declaring war and stuff.

Reality is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense.

People are reacting, not overreacting, because Jaina is far, far, far past stupid. If your story depends on FDR ignoring the attack on Pearl Harbor because the plot needs him to wait until the Phillipeans fall, your plot is bad.


From the mindset of the Alliance, Theramore did kick off the war. Varian mobilized immediately after the attack, if not before since there were Alliance forces greeting Garrosh(unlike Pearl Harbor where we were caught with our pants down).

For Jaina, being steered towards a new destiny by becoming the leader of the Kirin Tor tempered her rage and focused her efforts on ending Garrosh's plans. Theramore made Jaina noncompliant with Garrosh and as long as he remained leader, she would work to undermind him.

When Garrosh breaks Anduin, Jaina is finally pushed to be against the Horde, not just Garrosh and uses her power as leader of the Kirin Tor to join the Alliance.
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1 Undead Monk
0
Sardana's Post


I agree with you ten thousand percent.

Blood and Thunder, but no bread and water


I think this is my new favorite saying.
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90 Night Elf Priest
16345


For Jaina, being steered towards a new destiny by becoming the leader of the Kirin Tor tempered her rage and focused her efforts on ending Garrosh's plans. Theramore made Jaina noncompliant with Garrosh and as long as he remained leader, she would work to undermind him.


You don't end Garrosh's plans by going neutral. You don't stop Garrosh by saying that when he is defeated, you will be there to help the two factions coexist.

12/05/2012 07:54 AMPosted by Quirn
Sardana's Post


I agree with you ten thousand percent.

Agreed. Put in far better words than I could everything that I thought about the current situation.
Edited by Resileaf on 12/5/2012 8:17 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Hunter
5420
12/05/2012 07:34 AMPosted by Pyronaptor
-Everything- is going to be pinned on Garrosh when it was the entire Horde that helped him commit them. Every bad thing the Horde has done will be pinned on -one- man.

But, in reality, the most likely scenario (That I can see) is that all of the people who support Garrosh will be by his side during the siege and die with him.

After all, the raid needs trash mobs.


Strangely enough all of them will be in Org when that time comes.
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90 Troll Shaman
5420
12/05/2012 08:19 AMPosted by Kynrind
Strangely enough all of them will be in Org when that time comes.

Nothing strange about it.

Large chunks of the Horde are already in an open state of revolt. More and more of the Horde will be turning against Garrosh as 5.1 and the rest of the expansion unfurls.

By the time the Siege rolls around, the entire world will be knocking at his door, and Garrosh is likely to summon anyone still loyal to him to his side.

So everyone who sides with Garrosh will need to be in the city, as bosses or trash mobs.
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