Just got a Jaina quest, Patch 5.1 (Spoilers)

90 Human Warrior
16790
12/03/2012 10:36 PMPosted by Lorthuron
Yes it doesn't make sense but you guys said the same thing about Jaina not wanting to fight the Horde before Garrosh was even in charge.


"It's always been stupid, so there's no reason to point out that it's managed to get worse."

A lot of it was, yeah. But that doesn't really matter: It would have looked way worse if Jaina did it herself, unintentionally. She'd never forgive herself.


B.S.

As has been demonstrated repeatedly, Jaina will forgive anyone for anything, even to the point of ludicrousness.
Edited by Turagent on 12/3/2012 10:41 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11450
12/03/2012 10:38 PMPosted by Draile
Southern Barrens


There is info that suggest that even that was in response to Ashenvale aggression.

12/03/2012 10:38 PMPosted by Draile
Azshara


Was an attempt at making sure they wouldn't invade Ashenvale.

It's more of an aggressive defense.
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41 Gnome Priest
310
Didn't the fleet get wiped out by Garrosh's Kraken anyway?


A lot of it was, yeah. But that doesn't really matter: It would have looked way worse if Jaina did it herself, unintentionally. She'd never forgive herself.


But having all those people, and even so many extra so reinforcements die as well as Rhonin she would be fine with. Basically it's wiping out Org and ending the war with the loss of alliance lives that would have occurred anyway, or doing nothing and letting that kraken destroy the fleet anyway and live even more neutral than ever in Dalaran.

She has proven she can get over anything with the loss of her city and a lot of people that were close to her.
Edited by Healstime on 12/3/2012 10:43 PM PST
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90 Human Warrior
13525
B.S.

As has been demonstrated repeatedly, Jaina will forgive anyone for anything, even to the point of ludicrousness.


Doubtful, she'd be as bad as Garrosh or worse if she did so. I don't really care what anyone says, SHE would be. If she drowned out all of Orgrimmar.

"It's always been stupid, so there's no reason to point out that it's managed to get worse."


That's not what I said, so please refrain from twisting my words.

But having all those people, and even so many extra so reinforcements die as well as Rhonin she would be fine with. Basically it's wiping out Org and ending the war with the loss of alliance lives that would have occurred anyway, or doing nothing and letting that kraken destroy the fleet anyway and live even more neutral than ever in Dalaran.

She has proven she can get over anything with the loss of her city and a lot of people that were close to her.


No point is drowning Org. She'd be a war criminal but I think everybody knows that(Hopefully)
Edited by Lorthuron on 12/3/2012 10:44 PM PST
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90 Human Monk
2365


Find a quote to prove it please.


http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/09/20/wow-insider-interviews-lead-quest-designer-dave-kosak/#continued

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3430805957?page=2#37

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3657427722?page=6#105

It nearly drove her over the edge.


But then her dragon boyfriend totally calmed her down and now she's more neutral than she ever was.


I'm not reading that article, but those blue posts you linked don't seem to specifically say anything about "Jaina will go over the edge and hate the entire Horde".

It speaks of the Alliance being moved to full on war with the Horde. Which they are. There's a world war going on right now, and it's getting worse now that 5.1 hit.

That Jaina is smart enough to separate the anxious Orc soldier from, say, the lady who runs the Orgrimmar Orphanage isn't a bad thing. It's what makes her Alliance.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11450
12/03/2012 10:43 PMPosted by Draile
the lady who runs the Orgrimmar Orphanage


You know that she wants her kids to grow up into soldiers and die honorably in battle right? She's a Horde trainer, and her kids are students. They must be elimanated.
Edited by Noitora on 12/3/2012 10:46 PM PST
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90 Human Warrior
16790
12/03/2012 10:43 PMPosted by Lorthuron
Doubtful, she'd be as bad as Garrosh or worse if she did so. I don't really care what anyone says, SHE would be. If she drowned out all of Orgrimmar.


And then once she's as bad as Garrosh, we can get rid of her. The Alliance could then taunt the Horde for eternity as they pick through the ruins of their city and remind them that it's "petty" to be mad because the Burning Legion is coming and they need the Alliance if they want to survive.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
14910
It wouldn't be a war story if one side didn't have to put up with the other's nonsense.

If anything, I think the biggest failing here is that the Horde doesn't have to put up with the Alliance so much. Which is the same complaint this thread in general is making, but from more of an outter perspective.

That is to say, the Horde tries to portray the Alliance as being just as bad when in reality the Alliance has only been the aggressors so far in Southern Barrens and Azshara(Where they were soundly defeated).


It wouldn't be a war story if one side simply put up with the other's nonsense. Which is more or less what the Alliance has done and continues to do.

Heck, even in Pandaria, the Alliance aren't there to fight the Horde. No, they're there to "protect Pandaria" from the Horde. Not aggressively seek and destroy the hated enemy and deny him his new conquest.

I gotta ask, does Varian still want to dismantle the Horde or doesn't he? Is that gone now? Are they going to blame that on Lo'gosh and his rage and personality issues as well? Because Varian was completely right...
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90 Human Monk
2365
B.S.

As has been demonstrated repeatedly, Jaina will forgive anyone for anything, even to the point of ludicrousness.


This is utter nonsense.

If she killed the King of Stormwind in a fit of blind rage we'd be having a different story right now.

One where Orgrimmar is destroyed and the Alliance is hunting down Jaina for regicide. Only Jaina wouldn't be much of a raid boss, because she'd probably go down sobbing in despair that she killed one of her good friends and the father of a kid she considers a nephew.



12/03/2012 10:40 PMPosted by Noitora
There is info that suggest that even that was in response to Ashenvale aggression.


I wasn't suggesting it had anything to do with Ashenvale aggression. I was just listing it as an example of Alliance being aggressive by invading another land. I wasn't correlating it to the rest of the kalimdor war effort.



But having all those people, and even so many extra so reinforcements die as well as Rhonin she would be fine with. Basically it's wiping out Org and ending the war with the loss of alliance lives that would have occurred anyway, or doing nothing and letting that kraken destroy the fleet anyway and live even more neutral than ever in Dalaran.

She has proven she can get over anything with the loss of her city and a lot of people that were close to her.


It's pretty bold to suggest she's over the loss of Theramore just because she's being intelligent.

And I think the point behind the Alliance losing the fleet anyways(aside from the fact that Orgrimmar getting destroyed in a book would be kinda bad) is that Jaina probably could have prevented that from happening had she not decided to go alone.
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90 Human Warrior
13525
Doubtful, she'd be as bad as Garrosh or worse if she did so. I don't really care what anyone says, SHE would be. If she drowned out all of Orgrimmar.


And then once she's as bad as Garrosh, we can get rid of her. The Alliance could then taunt the Horde for eternity as they pick through the ruins of their city and remind them that it's "petty" to be mad because the Burning Legion is coming and they need the Alliance if they want to survive.


That's even more petty and quite silly. I'd rather have what we have now just of a few vocal Alliance who probably are just pink Orcs.

This is utter nonsense.

If she killed the King of Stormwind in a fit of blind rage we'd be having a different story right now.

One where Orgrimmar is destroyed and the Alliance is hunting down Jaina for regicide. Only Jaina wouldn't be much of a raid boss, because she'd probably go down sobbing in despair that she killed one of her good friends and the father of a kid she considers a nephew.


Duh. I'd be more angry that such a favorite character of mine has turned this way. It'd be just another Alliance character gone bad. First Arthas...then Jaina? WHEN WILL IT END?
Edited by Lorthuron on 12/3/2012 10:50 PM PST
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90 Human Monk
2365
I gotta ask, does Varian still want to dismantle the Horde or doesn't he? Is that gone now? Are they going to blame that on Lo'gosh and his rage and personality issues as well? Because Varian was completely right...


Of course he isn't. He's a smarter person now.

I'm afraid if you want to be aggressive and hateful, you're on the wrong faction. The Alliance is about compassion, love, intellectual pursuit, and all that good guy stuff.
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It's pretty bold to suggest she's over the loss of Theramore just because she's being intelligent.


It is not Intelligent to offer aid and comfort to the army that invaded your kingdom and slaughtered every living member.

Garrosh did not invade Theramore alone. He bought his army to bear. The Horde invaded Theramore and killed its inhabitants. As a whole unit.

And she's militantly against any sort of action that would prevent that from happening again.

That is NOT Intelligent. That is asking to be hurt again.

And if the storyline that was datamined on the test server continues as it seems to be implied to, that is exactly what will happen.

It is not aggressive and hateful to defend what you love against a genocidal army. And a genocidal army is what the Horde is.
Edited by Jaelara on 12/3/2012 10:52 PM PST
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90 Human Warrior
16790
This is utter nonsense.

If she killed the King of Stormwind in a fit of blind rage we'd be having a different story right now.

One where Orgrimmar is destroyed and the Alliance is hunting down Jaina for regicide. Only Jaina wouldn't be much of a raid boss, because she'd probably go down sobbing in despair that she killed one of her good friends and the father of a kid she considers a nephew.


That actually sounds like a much better story.

12/03/2012 10:48 PMPosted by Lorthuron
I'd rather have what we have now just of a few vocal Alliance who probably are just pink Orcs.


There's a reason someone coined the phrase "If you want peace, prepare for war."

12/03/2012 10:50 PMPosted by Draile
I'm afraid if you want to be aggressive and hateful, you're on the wrong faction. The Alliance is about compassion, love, intellectual pursuit, and all that good guy stuff.


Thankfully, pacifism isn't on that list. Jaina hasn't gotten that memo yet however.
Edited by Turagent on 12/3/2012 10:52 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Priest
16545
The misconception in this thread seems to be that we're asking for Jaina to push the Kirin Tor to do bombing runs on Horde orphanages.

Is it so wrong to be asking for our characters to take the survival of the Alliance as a whole seriously? Is it wrong to say that taking a stand militarily against a ruthless dictator who wants to kill everyone who is not with him is the only way to survive?
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That actually sounds like a much better story.


Agreed. It would be legitimately better than what we have now.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11450
The Alliance is about being punched in the face, being scared, getting wedgies, and losing their money, all that nerd stuff.
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41 Gnome Priest
310
It's pretty bold to suggest she's over the loss of Theramore just because she's being intelligent.

And I think the point behind the Alliance losing the fleet anyways(aside from the fact that Orgrimmar getting destroyed in a book would be kinda bad) is that Jaina probably could have prevented that from happening had she not decided to go alone.


Being neutral when Garrosh is still leading the horde is not being intelligent. She will come to this conclusion after she needs to purge Dalaran of Garrosh's agents.

The main point behind the alliance losing the fleet was so the horde could kill more alliance soldiers in yet another gimmicky way. When do we see the horde actually fight instead of using hacks and gimmicks?
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90 Human Warrior
13525
Of course he isn't. He's a smarter person now.

I'm afraid if you want to be aggressive and hateful, you're on the wrong faction. The Alliance is about compassion, love, intellectual pursuit, and all that good guy stuff.


Err Draile...we can be all that and be...Proactive and fight. Not Lawful stupid.

There's a reason someone coined the phrase "If you want peace, prepare for war."


You are clearly having issues with me saying *LET THE HORDE WALK OVER US*. I have never said that, nor implied that.

That actually sounds like a much better story.


No it is not. We don't need another Alliance gone villain.


The misconception in this thread seems to be that we're asking for Jaina to push the Kirin Tor to do bombing runs on Horde orphanages.

Is it so wrong to be asking for our characters to take the survival of the Alliance as a whole seriously? Is it wrong to say that taking a stand militarily against a ruthless dictator who wants to kill everyone who is not with him is the only way to survive?


The misconception here is people think we can't take the war seriously unless we do immoral acts. That's asinine, silly and probably needs to listen to yourselves.
Edited by Lorthuron on 12/3/2012 10:56 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11450
12/03/2012 10:53 PMPosted by Lorthuron
Err Draile...we can be all that and be...Proactive and fight. Not Lawful stupid.


After the Horde punches those nerds in the groin hard enough. Because being wedgied in front of the girl you liked wasn't enough.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11450
12/03/2012 10:53 PMPosted by Lorthuron
You are clearly having issues with me saying *LET THE HORDE WALK OVER US*. I have never said that, nor implied that.


Except you are implying it. All this thread is are implications between bombing orc schools to be aggressive and letting the Horde punch the Alliance because they refuse to get their hands dirty.
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