Blood dps

90 Worgen Death Knight
6540
Hey all, just trying to find some advice. I find myself always out-threated by the monk tank in grp. He has to do white damage for a while when I taunt. Then I find myself consistently doing 15-20k less dps than the Monk. He knows his class extremely well. I am more concerned as to my ability to play DK well. I do find myself extremely high on healing meters, and I do take much less damage than he does, but threat and DPS seem to be an issue.

Outbreak > HS > HS > DS > DS > RS till RP gone

After this initial rotation I find myself sitting for a good 4 seconds. I usually wait for DS and only use blood runes on HS.

Let me know if there are any recommendation for gear/rotations. Thanks all.
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90 Human Death Knight
4890
DRW > Outbreak > DS x 2 > RS Dump > ERW > Soul Repear > DS > RS Dump.

Make sure, before you do this, you have 2 fully recharged Blood runes and 4 fully recharged Death Runes.
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100 Human Death Knight
12060
I think maybe one of your biggest issues is the fact that you're dumping RP after burning all your runes. That's really not a good idea with Runic Corruption. And Runic Corruption isn't really good for Blood. Use Blood Tap. Then if you find yourself with a hole in your resources you can hit blood tap to get runes back.
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90 Worgen Death Knight
6540
DRW > Outbreak > DS x 2 > RS Dump > ERW > Soul Repear > DS > RS Dump.

Make sure, before you do this, you have 2 fully recharged Blood runes and 4 fully recharged Death Runes.


Wouldn't this require me to wait double the amount of time? I would have to dump runes to get the RP for DRW, then wait for runes to come back.

12/04/2012 12:53 PMPosted by Deathquoi
I think maybe one of your biggest issues is the fact that you're dumping RP after burning all your runes. That's really not a good idea with Runic Corruption. And Runic Corruption isn't really good for Blood. Use Blood Tap. Then if you find yourself with a hole in your resources you can hit blood tap to get runes back.


This seems like a decent idea. Let's me get an extra DS in.
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100 Human Death Knight
12060
The problem with ripping out all your runes and then spamming RS to burn RP is that you're basically just refreshing RC and not getting the full benefit of it.
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90 Worgen Death Knight
6540
12/04/2012 01:13 PMPosted by Deathquoi
The problem with ripping out all your runes and then spamming RS to burn RP is that you're basically just refreshing RC and not getting the full benefit of it.


So then a slower approach?

Outbreak > DS > HS > RS > DS > HS > RS > RS Type of rotation?

This gives RC some time, but would that mean I am still doing nothing for long portions of the fight?
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100 Human Death Knight
12060
12/04/2012 01:28 PMPosted by Cocotaso
The problem with ripping out all your runes and then spamming RS to burn RP is that you're basically just refreshing RC and not getting the full benefit of it.


So then a slower approach?

Outbreak > DS > HS > RS > DS > HS > RS > RS Type of rotation?

This gives RC some time, but would that mean I am still doing nothing for long portions of the fight?


That would be better. Weaving it into your rune attacks is what you should do. But I think BT is a better option than RC anyway.
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90 Worgen Death Knight
6540
So I am not supposed to be burning stuff up? I should be taking a slow and steady approach?
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
6600
Blood Tanking is not really about a rotation per say, rather a list of priorities. Here are some good rules to follow (starting with outbreak is a given here):

1. Spec into Blood Tap. Its more predictable and provides a steady stream of Death Runes which means more Death Strikes

2. Use DS if your Blood Shield is down or your health is less than 80%

3. With your blood runes, use BB if your diseases are about to expire and need refreshing, RT if your health is below 90%, HS if neither of these apply.

4. RS if you're close to capping rp, or all your runes are one cooldown.

Follow these rules, and you should always have a button to press. My maximum downtime using this formula has been one second.
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100 Human Death Knight
12060
12/04/2012 01:35 PMPosted by Cocotaso
So I am not supposed to be burning stuff up? I should be taking a slow and steady approach?


With RC, you get a 3 second buff for double regen speed when it procs. Say you then use it again one second later (after the GCD). You've given up two full seconds of double regen if you get another proc.

With Blood Tap it really doesn't matter too much as long as you're not rune striking when you already have 12 stacks.
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100 Draenei Death Knight
13560
12/04/2012 01:59 PMPosted by Deathquoi
So I am not supposed to be burning stuff up? I should be taking a slow and steady approach?


With RC, you get a 3 second buff for double regen speed when it procs. Say you then use it again one second later (after the GCD). You've given up two full seconds of double regen if you get another proc.

With Blood Tap it really doesn't matter too much as long as you're not rune striking when you already have 12 stacks.

I'm pretty sure that RC stacks and doesn't overwrite itself.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
8920
1. Spec into Blood Tap. Its more predictable and provides a steady stream of Death Runes which means more Death Strikes

2. Use DS if your Blood Shield is down or your health is less than 80%

3. With your blood runes, use BB if your diseases are about to expire and need refreshing, RT if your health is below 90%, HS if neither of these apply.

4. RS if you're close to capping rp, or all your runes are one cooldown.

wat

1) RC is fine for survivability. if used properly it provides the most consistent rune regen with the added bonus of doing ~10% more dps than BT.

2) Death Strike shouldn't be used like this. Use it after spikes or periods of large damage without letting both pairs go off cycle. What you're describing will likely lead to spamming.

3) you're fine here, though you forgot about soul reaper <35%

4) when you RS doesn't matter with BT (i assume thats what context you are in here) as long as you're not capping. The only time you runes matter in terms of RP (and BT) is when you actually spend the BT charges.
Edited by Reniat on 12/4/2012 2:10 PM PST
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90 Worgen Death Knight
6540
1. Spec into Blood Tap. Its more predictable and provides a steady stream of Death Runes which means more Death Strikes

2. Use DS if your Blood Shield is down or your health is less than 80%

3. With your blood runes, use BB if your diseases are about to expire and need refreshing, RT if your health is below 90%, HS if neither of these apply.

4. RS if you're close to capping rp, or all your runes are one cooldown.

wat

1) RC is fine for survivability. if used properly it provides the most consistent rune regen with the added bonus of doing ~10% more dps than BT.

2) Death Strike shouldn't be used like this. Use it after spikes or periods of large damage without letting both pairs go off cycle. What you're describing will likely lead to spamming.

3) you're fine here, though you forgot about soul reaper <35%

4) when you RS doesn't matter with BT (i assume thats what context you are in here) as long as you're not capping. The only time you runes matter in terms of RP (and BT) is when you actually spend the BT charges.


1.) That's what I figured. My surv is amazing at this point.

2.) Then this leads to a huge dps loss. DS is the single biggest hit we do.

3.) Yea I haven't really been bringing up the obvious ones here lol.
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100 Human Death Knight
12060
12/04/2012 02:07 PMPosted by Serrias


With RC, you get a 3 second buff for double regen speed when it procs. Say you then use it again one second later (after the GCD). You've given up two full seconds of double regen if you get another proc.

With Blood Tap it really doesn't matter too much as long as you're not rune striking when you already have 12 stacks.

I'm pretty sure that RC stacks and doesn't overwrite itself.


Well !@#$.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
8920
12/04/2012 02:20 PMPosted by Cocotaso
2.) Then this leads to a huge dps loss. DS is the single biggest hit we do.
that's simply not true. As long as you have at least 1 F and 1 U rune cycling and are not capping RP you won't lose any throughput.
Edited by Reniat on 12/4/2012 2:35 PM PST
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90 Worgen Death Knight
6540
12/04/2012 02:35 PMPosted by Reniat
that's simply not true. As long as you have at least 1 F and 1 U rune cycling and are not capping RP you won't lose any throughput.


I'll give a shot in raid tonight and let you know how it goes. I really can't go down in dps, to be honest. We are planing on going into heroics, and my dps will not cut it in there, so something has to change.
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90 Orc Death Knight
8835
12/04/2012 02:09 PMPosted by Reniat
1) RC is fine for survivability. if used properly it provides the most consistent rune regen with the added bonus of doing ~10% more dps than BT.

It's the most "consistent" regen, but it does less damage and less DS's than RE, and has less survivability than BT.

I switch between RE and BT depending on the encounter but I can't think of any situation where I would ever want RC on purpose.

If you're taking sustained damage, then you want RE.
If you're taking spiked damage (or the boss uses a taunt rotation), then you want BT

Which boss benefits the most from RC, anyway? Because whichever one you say, I can guarantee either RE or BT would be better.
Edited by Zionic on 12/4/2012 2:46 PM PST
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90 Worgen Death Knight
6540

Which boss benefits the most from RC, anyway? Because whichever one you say, I can guarantee either RE or BT would be better.


None in particular. I wanted a more consistent dps increase by selecting it, but we are straying away from that and saying spec into BT, and might as well macro it with DS for another CD LOL.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
8920
12/04/2012 02:42 PMPosted by Zionic
and has less survivability than BT.
again, not true. I've used both RC and BT in 25H progression content and neither have a distinct advantage over the other in terms of raw survivabiltiy. this is why RC is pretty much the only standard option, because it's equal for survivability but also does 10% more dps. There are fights (H sha and to a lesser extent H blade Lord for example) that favor BT, but BT is not "better" than RC for survivability. Nor is RC "better" than BT. They are different in function but not value.

Before you say it, it's not about DS/min either. RC does have the worst DS/min out of the 3 options, but because it has the most consistent return of DS its more likely that you will have a DS when you need it, which is all that really matters in the end. When played right BT will also allow for a DS when you need it, though it doesn't do as much DPS. (Again, equal in survivability not dps). RE is the worst option for survivability because it takes 2 procs to see any benefit, so there is a good chance you will be without a DS from t75 talent return for a long time, which can be fatal in 25H content if your healers aren't awake (though good tanks shouldn't be using their healers as a crutch anyway).

EDIT: sorry if that came out combative. Final exam stress probably slipping out into my forum responses. /slapselfonwrist.
Edited by Reniat on 12/4/2012 4:38 PM PST
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90 Worgen Death Knight
6540
I am guessing I am just under-geared compared to the rest of the group. When i went BT tonight DPS dropped. I am afraid heroic progression will have to be without me. Threat and DPS are the biggest issues for me ATM.
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