Looking for insight from Disc Priests

90 Undead Priest
6165
Not a complaining thread, just throwing out ideas to see what everyone thinks.

1) Buff our mana regen a little bit, or reduce mana cost for spells. Not a ton, just enough to not go oom for a flash heal or two.
2) Make it to where you can't dispel Power Word: Shield. It's not like it lasts longer than a few seconds anyway.
3) Same as above but with Spirit Shell. Just drop the absorb amount down to a reasonable amount and unable to dispel it.
4) Baseline Mind Control back. Only healer in game aside from Monk, I believe, that has only one CC aside from talents.
5) Buff our heals just a tiny bit. It makes me sad to spam 2 flash heals and a penance on someone and get them from 50% to 90%, spending 50k mana, with someone hitting them while other heals can instant cast and do the same thing with about 5k mana.

Don't flame, just brainstorming.

Lemme know if it sounds like this would help Disc.
Edited by Wipzzlol on 12/4/2012 5:56 PM PST
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90 Undead Priest
6600
1. A lot, not a bit.
2. No, keep it dispelable.
3. Spirit Shell should probably be undispelable, yeah.
4. No, just make the talent actually worth taking.
5. Make Penance a good heal again, nothing else really needed.
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90 Undead Mage
7070
1. A lot, not a bit.
2. No, keep it dispelable.
3. Spirit Shell should probably be undispelable, yeah.
4. No, just make the talent actually worth taking.
5. Make Penance a good heal again, nothing else really needed.
Agreed. I'd prefer disc to have some offensive capability again. Just for the fun factor. If buffing the damage of holy fire and smite is an issue for PvE due to atonement, then maybe give mindspike back to disc.
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90 Undead Priest
6165
Yeah, Penance is only good when it crits..Otherwise it's just like Shield and Spirit Shell, waste of mana.
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90 Night Elf Priest
8950
They need a big overall healing increase, it's annoying juking everyone and their mothers interrupts just to get off crappy flash heals that are mostly dps'd through like nothing.
Edited by Avyris on 12/4/2012 6:13 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Priest
5860
MC is pretty terrible now with the 2.5 second cast, the cooldown is irrelevant.

Our damage is a joke. The only way we can contribute other than healbotting is fear every 30s. Everything else is retarded. Clone, repentance, hoj, hex, shear, grounding, windwalk, freedom, exorcism, HOTW, double purge, bash, these are all things that nothing in our toolbox really contends with.

Defensively I avoid 3s like the plague because I find us too much of a joke to try to be competitive, but I have some glad/r1 disc friends who say that before they fix our utility or damage, they need to give us way more healing/mana so we stop going oom or exploding.
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34 Night Elf Priest
0
1. A lot, not a bit.
2. No, keep it dispelable.
3. Spirit Shell should probably be undispelable, yeah.
4. No, just make the talent actually worth taking.
5. Make Penance a good heal again, nothing else really needed.


2. Disagree. Power Word: Shield needs to be made undispellable. Having the shield purged (hello glyph of purge) or spellstolen (yay! we now gave the enemy team our most beneficial tool) is ridiculous when absorbs are supposed to be one of discs main healing abilities.

It isn't like the shield lasts that long anyway. What about teams that don't have an offensive dispeller? They seem to do fine against priests. Having shield dispellable makes them gimp to any team with an offensive dispeller (which is pretty much every team atm).

4. Disagree again. Priests had MANY tools TAKEN from them with absolutely no compensation given. I see absolutely no reason why one of the few CC's priests had was taken from them. It isn't like priests having Mind Control baseline made them overpowered in past expansions.

Take a good look at what disc priests are currently. They are a hollow spec.
They took mana burn away (which was a priests way of equalizing their terrible mana regen vs shaman/paladins endless mana/incredibly throughput)
---When mana burn was in the game, priests were able to force a match to end quickly before their own terrible mana regen became too much of an issue--

They took offensive capabilities away from them. They used to be able to help land kills with mind spike/blast. Now? I assume every other healer is able to DPS better than a priest can.

Mind Control, gone. One of priests only forms of CC...gone. Sure you can choose it as a (nerfed) talent, but other classes GAINED cc ontop of keeping their old ones. We had an opportunity to gain ROOTS which would help a great deal against melee, but we are forced to pick a talent we've had since the beginning.

5. Disagree again.. If you say keep power word: shield dispellable then the heals we have should be able to bring someone up quickly. If disc absorbs are going to rendered completely useless against dispellers, what are they supposed to do? Disc have the absolute weakest heals out of all of the healing specs... resto shaman can heal twice as much as a disc at half of the mana cost.

Absorbs worthless? Check.
Heals pathetically weak and expensive? Check.
Removed utility? Check.
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The healing isn't an issue, the fact that our main healing skill is a dispellable absorption, Our mana regen is great right now in PvE, it functions differently in pvp because most likely people are dispelling your shields and rapture isn't proccing at all for you. They need to re-add our offensives so we can be the offensive healer Disc was all of Cata. I don't understand being given skills that heal when doing damage, they encourage us to dps, but when I do in an arena, I either get my entire holy tree locked out for an extended period of time, and when god forbid I land a smite or holy fire, It hits less than the average dot. We need PvP power to be functional for us again, or we're going to sit at the bottom of the barrel with monks in arenas.
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90 Draenei Priest
9485
- Fix our damn glyphs. Not having any choice at all, and not even being able to get back the things we used to have in Cataclysm is dumb. Inner Focus (and maybe Desperation) should be baseline, and SW:D should be a minor glyph. We SHOULD be able to have a 0.5s MD, SW:D, Desperation, and IF, and still have maybe one other free slot to try out Penance or Holy Fire glyphs.

- MC should probably be changed back to a 1.5s cast with no CD. It really wouldn't be OP at all.

- Spectral Guise needs to be usable while stunned once again.

- Remove Glyph of Purge. I don't think the solution is just to make our stuff undispellable (maybe Spirit Shell could be, I don't know).

- Revert the PvP power change. Our damage was bad even before 5.1, now it's just laughable.

- Cut Mass Dispel mana cost by 50%.

Frankly, I'd be happy enough with just the above. It would at least make playing Disc enjoyable again. Right now, besides being the worst healer, it's no longer even fun to play. It's an extremely one dimensional spec with all of its offensive utility taken away.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6415
Two glyph slots taken by default (I mean sure, Druids have Barkskin glyph almost universally, that's more of a choice than "I cast pain supp whilst stunned or I don't and die"), worthless offensive pressure, Evangelism stacking through a spell you don't really want to use in PvP (Smite, since it hits for maybe 6-8k, a whole 3-5k DPS!) even though making Evangelism stack through some other more viable means (like, flash heals, or penance ticks) would fix 100% of the output issues. CC is fine, scream I don't mind, it's quite good - yet what I feel a Priest should be, a robust healer who keeps her allies alive with shields and quick, cheap heals (Penance, PoM, renew) whilst the pressure is down, puts out offensive pressure when required, which currently is non-existent - and when the pressure is on, skillfully play cooldowns or try for counterpressure (something Smite would be fantastic for if it hit for 15k+, which almost seems totally unrealistic).

It's nothing at the moment, just pretty stock with no offensive pressure and

ABSOLUTELY NO GLYPH CHOICES WHATSOEVER

Seriously make Pain Supp castable whilst stunned and Inner Focus give immune baseline, there are so many cool glyphs like Rapid Renewal, Fade, Lifegrip, PoM etc etc that I would LOVE to take but aren't able to since two slots are (unarguably) taken up with two critical glyphs. That isn't cool, that isn't choice, that's just crap - so much for choice in glyphs I have utterly none whatsoever.

Also on Glyph of Purge: Make it dispel 2 effects but put it on a 4s cooldown. Bang, there you go - can't spam it but when you cast it the effect is just that much more powerful.
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90 Undead Priest
6600
1. A lot, not a bit.
2. No, keep it dispelable.
3. Spirit Shell should probably be undispelable, yeah.
4. No, just make the talent actually worth taking.
5. Make Penance a good heal again, nothing else really needed.


2. Disagree. Power Word: Shield needs to be made undispellable. Having the shield purged (hello glyph of purge) or spellstolen (yay! we now gave the enemy team our most beneficial tool) is ridiculous when absorbs are supposed to be one of discs main healing abilities.

It isn't like the shield lasts that long anyway. What about teams that don't have an offensive dispeller? They seem to do fine against priests. Having shield dispellable makes them gimp to any team with an offensive dispeller (which is pretty much every team atm).

4. Disagree again. Priests had MANY tools TAKEN from them with absolutely no compensation given. I see absolutely no reason why one of the few CC's priests had was taken from them. It isn't like priests having Mind Control baseline made them overpowered in past expansions.

Take a good look at what disc priests are currently. They are a hollow spec.
They took mana burn away (which was a priests way of equalizing their terrible mana regen vs shaman/paladins endless mana/incredibly throughput)
---When mana burn was in the game, priests were able to force a match to end quickly before their own terrible mana regen became too much of an issue--

They took offensive capabilities away from them. They used to be able to help land kills with mind spike/blast. Now? I assume every other healer is able to DPS better than a priest can.

Mind Control, gone. One of priests only forms of CC...gone. Sure you can choose it as a (nerfed) talent, but other classes GAINED cc ontop of keeping their old ones. We had an opportunity to gain ROOTS which would help a great deal against melee, but we are forced to pick a talent we've had since the beginning.

5. Disagree again.. If you say keep power word: shield dispellable then the heals we have should be able to bring someone up quickly. If disc absorbs are going to rendered completely useless against dispellers, what are they supposed to do? Disc have the absolute weakest heals out of all of the healing specs... resto shaman can heal twice as much as a disc at half of the mana cost.

Absorbs worthless? Check.
Heals pathetically weak and expensive? Check.
Removed utility? Check.


2. Glyph of purge broken? Better break Power Word: Shield! No, sorry, it doesn't work like that. Glyph of purge will eventually be nerfed, and then the dispel protection mechanism we already have (Grace) will actually have an effect. I agree its one of our main healing/supportive abilities, that doesn't mean you get to remove any counter-play it currently has.

4. Lets be honest here, you wouldn't get a base mind control off any capable team in 3v3, its a long cast long channeled spells. Making it baseline doesn't stop it from being !@#$ty, it just makes it less of a problem. Lets make it worth using over a mindless spell (fiend) and make it competitive with one of the only self peels we have (tendrils). Furthermore, the talent isn't any worse than the Mind Control in S11 (and nearly every season before that).

5. You act like our output is so far gone, guess why? It's because penance is a grace stacker. When your ally is in trouble and you have no cooldowns, what do you do if weakened soul is on them? Spam flash heal (which takes a butt load of mana anyways, this is hitting two birds with one stone.) right? It wasn't always like this.

Our priorities is simple:
  • Fix mana issues, not through bender, through actual healing buffs (making penance not a grace stacker, giving shields a SMALL absorption boost and allowing inner focus to reduce the mana costs of the spell used by it (like it used to be). Healing and Mana Issues are really the same category. One is fixed by the other.
  • Buff offensive capability, we're priests god damn it.
  • And finally make our 90 talents a choice, I haven't tested too much as of late, but I'm pretty sure the generic 30 yrd aoe is still king. In addition, return some of what we lost. (Make the death glyph minor as suggested by Nahj and the top priests who stated it before he, make inner focus glyph baseline, and revert that horrible SG nerf, that was pointless.)
  • We're not gonna fix priests by introducing mechanics that are gonna have to be scrapped within a year from now, we're gonna fix them by actually doing their numbers, glyphs, and abilities correctly, an issue that should've been fixed in BETA.
    Edited by Conspiracy on 12/4/2012 9:02 PM PST
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    34 Night Elf Priest
    0
    What about these:
    Remove grace, buff heals, make shield undispellable. Mages shouldn't have in essence two healers by bringing their own and stealing huge absorbs from the enemy. Shield is just too vital to discs..

    Grace is an ancient mechanic anyway. No other healer has to "ramp up" their heals. They target and get 100% effectiveness 100% of the time. Priests shouldn't have to be gimped because they don't have a stack of grace on the target.

    12/04/2012 08:58 PMPosted by Conspiracy
    Furthermore, the talent isn't any worse than the Mind Control in S11 (and nearly every season before that).


    Yeah, but the fact that we have to give up two amazing talent choices to get a spell we've had forever is sad. Roots would be so amazing to have, but we have to give something up. While other classes are GAINING spells ontop of retaining their old ones... priests have to give up one to gain another, making it a wash.

    Give Mind Control baseline, nerf shadowfiend hard, and add a new talent in 1st tier. Shouldn't have to give up mind control for a root against melee which we have desperately needed for the entirety of WoW..

    Mind control is actually very good...
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    There are more discs above 2.2k 3's than mistweaver monks.
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    90 Undead Priest
    6600
    The data with that information was considered incorrect as it tallied a few disc specs that were actually shadow players.

    Also, irrelevant.
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    90 Undead Priest
    6600
    12/04/2012 09:39 PMPosted by Lureilyia
    Yeah, but the fact that we have to give up two amazing talent choices to get a spell we've had forever is sad. Roots would be so amazing to have, but we have to give something up. While other classes are GAINING spells ontop of retaining their old ones... priests have to give up one to gain another, making it a wash.


    This is the way it's supposed to be, we were built mechanically well in that design. We're not the only one that lost one of our main skills to have them implemented into trees, Mind Control wasn't vital, just a lovely luxury.

    I can't comment on Grace as I am biased from tradition.

    I never stated MC wasn't good, but psyfiend currently is worth it, which is something I'd like to see abolished.
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    90 Blood Elf Priest
    6415
    12/04/2012 09:41 PMPosted by Yonä
    There are more discs above 2.2k 3's than mistweaver monks.


    Last I checked disc made it's debut back in 2004, not 2012.
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    90 Blood Elf Priest
    9265
    Sincerely support all these suggestions I stopped playing on my priest largely because its not fun anymore; pitting a warrior against a disc priest is laughable in arena, RBG leaders even at a low 1600 level refuse to take disc/holy even with past experience, and its not fun to play at all the shields and heals are extraordinarily weak to huge swaps because of penance that leave priest completely vulnerable. Compared to counterpart healer's ascension and tree cd I don't see a priest equivalent. Really want to see a viable fix, what ever happened to bring the player not the class?

    I personally would like to see blizzard staffers play a day as a priest in Arenas or Rated BGS... it grants some perspective.
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    90 Tauren Druid
    WGS
    9620
    12/05/2012 02:14 AMPosted by Aegrak
    I personally would like to see blizzard staffers play a day as a priest in Arenas or Rated BGS... it grants some perspective.


    Oh I'm sure they do. Unfortunately they are about 650 rated so they do just fine.
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    90 Night Elf Priest
    5860
    12/04/2012 09:39 PMPosted by Lureilyia
    Grace is an ancient mechanic anyway. No other healer has to "ramp up" their heals. They target and get 100% effectiveness 100% of the time. Priests shouldn't have to be gimped because they don't have a stack of grace on the target.


    Not actually true, rshamans need to riptide and ES for max healing, druids have to stack blooms, hpallies have beacon, glyph of flash heal and not sure if anything else.

    Just making sure we don't get too biased here.
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