Explanation Please?

100 Goblin Death Knight
16475
∙ Base Rune Speed is 10.00s
∙ Goblins Racial is 1.00% Haste.

∙ Naked Goblin Death Knight in Frost Presence (No Bonus Rune Speed):
∙ PaperDoll showing Haste at 1.00%
∙ PaperDoll showing Rune Speed at 10.00s
Shouldn't Rune Speed be at 9.90s?

∙ Naked Goblin Death Knight in Blood Presence (20% Bonus Rune Speed):
∙ PaperDoll showing Haste at 1.00%
∙ PaperDoll showing Rune Speed at 8.33s
Shouldn't Rune Speed be at 7.90s?

∙ Goblin Death Knight in Blood Presence (20% Bonus Rune Speed):
∙ PaperDoll showing Haste at 10.25%
∙ PaperDoll showing Rune Speed at 7.63s
Shoudn't Rune Speed be at 6.975s?

I would assume if Haste had Diminishing Returns that this would be figured out before the conversion to the % I am being shown. So either my math is wrong, the game's math is wrong, or there is a Diminishing Returns on the conversion of Haste into Rune Speed.

So please let me know:
∙ Is my math wrong?
∙ Is Blizzard's math wrong?
∙ Is there a hidden Diminishing Return on the conversion of Haste into Rune Speed?

Also the Rune Speed increase from your presence, 20% Blood Presence and 10% Unholy Presence, should not be affected by any sort of Diminishing Returns I think... if there is a Diminishing Returns on it.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
15380
The goblin racial does not effect our rune speed. Pretty sure this has been pointed out before. Also the rune speed would not cap at zero and to a point even 40-60% rune speed would be far more OP. There is a DR of your haste rating into Rune Speed.

edited to clarify the OP.

In the theory that it caps at a clear value like you were thinking. 60% haste would imply a 4 second rune speeds. We wouldn't even have enough globals.
Edited by Tor on 12/5/2012 3:13 PM PST
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90 Human Death Knight
14215
I think the goblin racial is technically attack speed and not true haste. I don't think the paper doll shows that accurately and sometimes lumps attack speed into the haste number.

But your math isn't correct for calculating rune speed either. It should be:
base/(1+haste), so for the naked goblin in blood presence it would be 10/1.2=8.33 as you see, or 10/1.21 if the goblin 1% counted which would be 8.26.

Edit: the 10/1.21 example is wrong, see below.
Edited by Nellise on 12/5/2012 4:11 PM PST
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90 Human Death Knight
9080
I think the goblin racial is technically attack speed and not true haste. I don't think the paper doll shows that accurately and sometimes lumps attack speed into the haste number.

But your math isn't correct for calculating rune speed either. It should be:
base/(1+haste), so for the naked goblin in blood presence it would be 10/1.2=8.33 as you see, or 10/1.21 if the goblin 1% counted which would be 8.26.


This. It's attack and casting speed, not actual haste.
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100 Goblin Death Knight
16475
12/05/2012 03:11 PMPosted by Tor
There is a DR of your haste rating into Rune Speed.

I really wish Blizzard would at least note this in the UI for things effected by DR; cause I now have to go off of what someone said somewhere vs. actually seeing it.

Then there is the case of why say 10% and 20% Rune Speed increase on the presences and then have those affected by DR.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
15380
Btw when you're thinking having a lot of haste helps. 45.30% yet my rune speed is 9.08
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90 Human Death Knight
14215
12/05/2012 03:18 PMPosted by Whaang
There is a DR of your haste rating into Rune Speed.

I really wish Blizzard would at least note this in the UI for things effected by DR; cause I now have to go off of what someone said somewhere vs. actually seeing it.

Then there is the case of why say 10% and 20% Rune Speed increase on the presences and then have those affected by DR.


But haste isn't affected by DR like say dodge/parry rating. The first two posters are calculating haste incorrectly and assuming it's DR on haste. If you go from 0 to 1% haste, it'll appear as a larger difference in your new rune speed than say going from 40% to 41% because of how it's calculated, but the value of 1 haste rating isn't diminished.

You can essentially cap your haste if you have so much that you get gcd locked and adding more won't help you, but that's not a DR issue.
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100 Goblin Death Knight
16475
But your math isn't correct for calculating rune speed either. It should be: base/(1+haste), so for the naked goblin in blood presence it would be 10/1.2=8.33 as you see, or 10/1.21 if the goblin 1% counted which would be 8.26.


Hrmm yeah I was doing...
∙ 10.00s-(10.00s*.2) = 8.00s

But your math gets the value correct when naked; and I get what the thought process is there now but the tool-tip wording is a bit misleading in my opinion.

Using this math I get...
∙ Fully clothed I have 10.25% Haste (1.00% from Goblin Racial)
∙ Removing the Goblin 1%: 10/1.2925 = 7.73s
∙ Keeping the Goblin 1%: 10/1.3025 = 7.68s
∙ PaperDoll is showing 7.63s

So... WTF MY Math? What am I missing now?

EDIT: 10/1.2=8.33 then 8.33/1.0925=7.63s got it... thanks!

Nice to know there is no DR with Haste then. And it is nice to know how to calculate things out that make sense now.
Edited by Whaang on 12/5/2012 4:04 PM PST
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90 Human Death Knight
14215

EDIT: 10/1.2=8.33 then 8.33/1.0925=7.63s got it... thanks!

Nice to know there is no DR with Haste then. And it is nice to know how to calculate things out that make sense now.


Thanks for actually correcting me too. I guess the presence buff gives a new base rune regen rate and that's what you take the haste from (so my 10/1.21 example is wrong). I had done all this haste stuff a long time ago for my warlock which is why I knew the calculation was base/(1+haste), but I missed a nuance of it for DKs.
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100 Goblin Death Knight
16475
12/05/2012 04:10 PMPosted by Nellise
Thanks for actually correcting me too. I guess the presence buff gives a new base rune regen rate and that's what you take the haste from (so my 10/1.21 example is wrong). I had done all this haste stuff a long time ago for my warlock which is why I knew the calculation was base/(1+haste), but I missed a nuance of it for DKs.


Is there an actual reason Blizzard uses the BaseStat/100%+Mod% over the BaseStat-(BaseStat*Mod%) equation? I'm talking when it comes to math, why pick one over the other?

I guess if the tool-tip read out "Decreases your rune speed by 20% of your base rune speed." instead of what it does say now, "Increases your rune speed by 20%", it would be the way I was thinking of it?
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
3015
Because that is how it is worded... haste increases your speed by a %... and this how that is calculated.

If haste was instead an "activation time reduction stat" %, it would be calculated like the earlier examples. But it isn't. It is a speed modifier, haste.

Do a quick calculation for what 100% haste would do. I'll wait.

Got it? See, that is exactly what you would expect, and should get, when you are going 100% faster, ie twice as fast. It takes exactly half the time to get where you're going. So too with haste, you speed up by a %, and you get there (finish cast faster, recharge faster etc) by the formula 1/100%+X%.

For the curious, it is called an inverse function.
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