Arcane in SimC - Interesting Results

100 Human Mage
15060
And no matter what I do, it doesn't seem to change DPS on patchwerk beyond 1.5k DPS.

Use barrage to drop stacks at 92%? 85%? 80%? Doesn't matter, less than 1k DPS lost between them. Use scorch to maintain six stacks instead? Doesn't matter, less than 1k DPS lost.

Want to stack mastery? Haste? again, not much of a difference.

T14H gear, no PoM, using RoP, 10,000 iterations
Dropping stacks with barrage:
Clearing stacks at 92%: 131,857
Clearing stacks at 85%: 132,840
Clearing stacks at 80%: 132,369
Clearing stacks at 75%: 131,260

Without dropping stacks:
Scorching at 92%: 133,098
Scorching at 85%: 134,004
Scorching at 80%: 132,684
Scorching at 75%: 130,897

For clearing stacks at 92% the stat weights shook out like this:
Int: 4.81
SP: 3.91
Mastery: 2.65
Haste: 2.73
Crit: 2.04
Edited by Mumrit on 12/4/2012 6:50 PM PST
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100 Human Mage
15060
Here are the results at my gear level while mastery stacked, same test:

no PoM, using RoP, 10,000 iterations
Dropping stacks with barrage:
Clearing stacks at 92%: 93,152
Clearing stacks at 85%: 93,781
Clearing stacks at 80%: 93,392
Clearing stacks at 75%: 92,606

Without dropping stacks:
Scorching at 92%: 94,271
Scorching at 85%: 94,759
Scorching at 80%: 93,616
Scorching at 75%: 92,447

For clearing stacks at 92% the stat weights shook out like this:
Int: 4.21
SP: 3.44
Mastery: 1.87
Haste: 2.08
Crit: 1.46

Again, not variation between playstyles.

And haste stacked with frost armor:
no PoM, using RoP, 10,000 iterations
Dropping stacks with barrage:
Clearing stacks at 92%: 94,833
Clearing stacks at 85%: 95,908
Clearing stacks at 80%: 95,324
Clearing stacks at 75%: 94,474

Without dropping stacks via scorch:
Scorching at 92%: 96,602
Scorching at 85%: 95,956
Scorching at 80%: 95,226
Scorching at 75%: 94,307
Edited by Mumrit on 12/6/2012 5:11 PM PST
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90 Worgen Mage
12575
Yeah, mage modules are borked.
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100 Human Mage
15060
12/04/2012 08:10 PMPosted by Harlach
Yeah, mage modules are borked.

Is it confirmed that there's an issue with mages on SimC? I can get DPS to drop down to ~110k if I clear stacks at 10% mana.

That mirrors the drop I see in game with just some highly non-scientific training dummy testing.

(No bomb, no cool downs)
Clearing at 92%: 60kish over 4 minutes
Clearing at 10%: 45kish over 4 minutes

Sustaining at 10% is obviously much lower than at 92%, but the slow burn down seems to keep it closer than I'd have though. I imagine the numbers above would differentiate more the longer I ran the Sim, though not by much. The above numbers were found running the sim on a 450 second fight.
Edited by Mumrit on 12/4/2012 8:27 PM PST
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90 Worgen Mage
12575
The person developing the module has said a few times that they aren't correct, though they've never made clear exactly how wrong they are.
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100 Human Mage
15060
12/04/2012 08:24 PMPosted by Harlach
The person developing the module has said a few times that they aren't correct, though they've never made clear exactly how wrong they are.

If you're citing Lhiv, the damage is higher than it should be but it's still a decent tool for figuring out how rotations within a spec alter DPS as well as relative stat weights.
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90 Worgen Mage
12575
It could be some sort of arcane specific interaction. It is odd to see such small variance in the first post however.
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90 Worgen Mage
12575
Can you post the results of the first test, clearing vs scorching, with haste vs mastery?

I know that people were testing each, but it'd be interesting to see if clearing was better for haste due to getting the stacks up quickly.
Edited by Harlach on 12/4/2012 8:49 PM PST
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90 Human Mage
IQ
8250
That is interesting Mumrit. Pre-buffs i messed around with it quite a bit, but was always 10 or 20% short, i dont remember which one it was. I'd be curious to see what the distribution looks like though.
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100 Human Mage
15060
Can you post the results of the first test, clearing vs scorching, with haste vs mastery?

I know that people were testing each, but it'd be interesting to see if clearing was better for haste due to getting the stacks up quickly.

The above results are both with mastery stacked. I'll try to rerun the tests tonight with an arcane mage who is haste stacked, but it won't be something you can directly compare to the above numbers - The test will just be to look to deviation from the pattern, to see if there's a larger gap, etc
Edited by Mumrit on 12/5/2012 5:50 AM PST
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100 Human Mage
15060
Interesting thing to note - Frost armor is a DPS gain over Mage armor. In my current gear, it's a 1k DPS gain on Patchwerk. No reason to think this would change under other circumstances given stat weights.
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90 Gnome Mage
0
Simulations for an arcane isn't smart to use lol. Your own world of logs are the way to adjust your character
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90 Troll Mage
10095
don't go arcane until you have 4 piece and over 40% mastery.. all the fights are too mobile in Heroics, moving will drop your dps significantly.
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100 Human Mage
15060
12/05/2012 05:48 PMPosted by Leonhearts
don't go arcane until you have 4 piece and over 40% mastery.. all the fights are too mobile in Heroics, moving will drop your dps significantly.

Movement isn't as big of a killer for arcane as most people think. Mastery is easy to stack (I had over 50% self buffed in my current gear) and makes scorch hit fairly hard. If you are doing a rotation where you drop stacks you can weave arcange barrage in there for more DPS, as well as the bomb continuing to tick (which is also boosted as mastery.)

When the movement phase ends you have two stacks of arcane missiles. Every once in a while you can even stop to cast a missile proc to keep your stacks up.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18255
12/06/2012 05:11 AMPosted by Mumrit
Movement isn't as big of a killer for arcane as most people think.


I think that *used* to be true, before 5.0.4.

But it is pure torture attempting to keep RoP under you.
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100 Human Mage
15060
12/06/2012 11:02 AMPosted by Taymage
Movement isn't as big of a killer for arcane as most people think.


I think that *used* to be true, before 5.0.4.

But it is pure torture attempting to keep RoP under you.


People overestimate the effects of not standing on the rune during movement phases. Scorch costs a miniscule amount of mana as well as generates AM procs, which also cost zero mana. Generally you can end a movement phase with six stacks still up and back up at full mana with an AM proc or two up. I haven't encountered a fight yet where I had to move continuously for a long enough period where my stacks would fall off without me being able to take two seconds to allow an AM channel to finish to keep them up.

Something I do while playing arcane is 'dance' around the rune, trying to end casts by clipping back on top of it's edge. It works on bosses where there isn't a lasting effect that can be put on your rune (Such as the first boss in HOF) but is less effective on a fight like the first one in vaults.
---------------------

I'm going to rerun the sim tonight now that I'm reforged/regemmed for haste. I'll post results as soon as possible.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18255
Idk, I tried Arcane for the first time since firelands I think, and it seemed like pure torture. I'll grant that I did not give it much of a shot at all. And I'm quite sure I could eventually become proficient.

But I loathed it.

Even on allegedly non-movement fights, I felt like something was always popping up requiring repositioning and dropping the damn Rune again.

It seems to me that it would be very easy to spend a lot of many fights without a 15% spellpower buff.

I actually made a frost spec for the first time *ever* and failed miserably at it last night on Will. Having said that, I think I did help out quite a bit with add management, so, there's that.

Meh.

Maybe I'll give it another shot.
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43 Blood Elf Mage
12390
12/05/2012 03:58 PMPosted by Mumrit
Interesting thing to note - Frost armor is a DPS gain over Mage armor. In my current gear, it's a 1k DPS gain on Patchwerk. No reason to think this would change under other circumstances given stat weights.


Frost armor is rather powerful with the 7% increase in haste, rather than a flat increase in the stat like molten armor and mage armor provide. If one would stack haste with arcane, it's clearly better than mage armor, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were better than mage armor even if one would be stacking mastery with it.

Heck, something interesting to speculate about would be if frost armor might supplant molten armor someday for fire before the end of the expansion because of that scaling with haste.
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100 Human Mage
15060
12/06/2012 12:50 PMPosted by Pollex
Heck, something interesting to speculate about would be if frost armor might supplant molten armor someday for fire before the end of the expansion because of that scaling with haste.

It's a possibility. It's 6.25% crit vs 7% haste. If you take invocation as your level 90 talent it makes haste more valuable. Once haste starts approaching crit in terms of stat weights (if it does) then frost armor will certainly be better.

7% haste x 425.0 rating = 2975 rating.
6.25% crit x 600 rating = 3750 rating.

2975 * (HasteWeight) vs 3750 * (CritWeight)

If we assume crit is a weight of 1 (just for calculation purposes then it's:
hasteWeight > 1.2605042016806722689075630252101

The moment haste's stat weight is 26% greater than crit's stat weight, frost armor becomes better.
Edited by Mumrit on 12/6/2012 1:05 PM PST
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100 Human Mage
15060
My second post now contains the numbers for the same iLevel while being haste stacked. As I guessed, the numbers are only slightly higher than mastery stacking.

of all the tests the highest DPS method was:
Stack haste
Use frost armor
Use scorch (never clear stacks)
Stay as close to 92% mana as possible.

Even so that was only 4.2k DPS higher than the lowest combination despite playing the spec very differently and with a different secondary stat.
Edited by Mumrit on 12/6/2012 5:14 PM PST
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