Resto Needs A Look At

90 Troll Druid
15055
I miss Revitalize severely and agree that mushrooms need something to make them useful. I'm glad i'm not the only druid to think we're missing something. I hope we receive some attention. ^-^;

I would also like to be able to have better HoT uptime than a holy pally; considering we *are* the HoT base class (30 second Eternal Flame vs 12 second Rejuv).

Nourish and Healing Touch seem pretty useless to me. The cast times are really long for nourish not even healing for anything and Regrowth healing for more than Healing Touch does for less of a cast (Regrowth does cost more mana but with the glyph you get Living Seed from it as well, therefore making Healing Touch mediocre). I don't use Healing Touch outside of NS
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100 Night Elf Druid
9510
I like the front-loading idea quite a bit. The percentages could be reworked, but it would certainly be a nice change.
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90 Troll Hunter
10345
I'm sorry no, just no. There is a reason resto druids are so popular in arenas and as flag carriers in RBGs thier output is way too high when you compair it to their also retarded mobility. displacer beast, shapeshift removing all snares and movemnt imparing effects on a GCD with little harm to healing done or mana (the ret pally one atleast takes a chunk of their mana) I'm sorry resto druid isnt as good in pve anymore but unless you can accept druid nerfs on mobility dont ask for buffs on output.

Here is fair example-Frost Mage vs. Resto Druid the druid starts out stealthed and moves in and stuns the mage and starts hitting him hte mave frost novas and hte durid displacer beasts away, once again stealthed the druid stuns the mage again and since he is in cat form is immune to polymorph hte mage uses his pets aoe freeze which hits but before he can trigger his deep freeze the resto druid switches to travel form and with +40% movement speed (the best in hte game even ghot wolf cna be dispelled) jets off only to los and pop rejuv and 3 stacks of lifebloom and begins chian cycloning the mage for kicks an if the amge starts getting close boom off to the races again the mge trys CoC the druid just shifts out pops rejuv lifebloom shift into travel again mage blinks attempts frost nova again since its now off cd gets it off and manages to deep freeze the problem is the durid is still efectivly helaing thanks to those refreshed HoTs that would drain the mages mana too much if he were to SS them (totally done for Rdruids and pally bubbles). but he gets him done to half health nad then the druid displacer beasts pops to full nad gains full mana again via inervate the mage has no more CD the druid will just take this to a draw.

The point being made here is that the most CC happy spec can't even touch a resto druid 1V1 the only class that could possible take on a druid is a DK (unholy would be best but frost isnt too far behind) a class shouldnt only have 1 counter it should have several frost mages had thier survivability droped a huge chunk and are now glass cannons as they should be resto druids on hte other hand still get to have their cake (solid healing) and eat it too (high mobility) Disc priest have bubbles glyphed penance (increasing its cost by 20%) and renew to cast while moving, holy priests can use light wells and renew with some minor haling while moving pallys have gimped healing while moving monks, and shamans.

I understand pve druids want better healing but it just doesnt work that way anymore if blizz improves resto druid helaing there will only be resto druid ins pvp.
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90 Night Elf Druid
16200
The main issue is that we go oom on most if not all fights when we try to put out strong heals. They could re-work innervate to help this. We only get around maybe 60,000 - 80,000 (if used with trinks etc) A change to make Innervate buff your raw spirit or overall bring more mana. It won't affect pvp much since you can still dispel/spellsteal/cyclone it to make it null.
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90 Troll Druid
10145
Resto druids have the best mana control in the game im unsure of how you guys are running out of mana, maybe do a bit more research on your class, i do agree our healing output is low though
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100 Night Elf Druid
7680
I think our mana is OK too. Wouldn't mind seeing Innervate drop by a minute though.

Also how come no one has mentioned lowering haste break points? More ticks of WG and Efflorescence could help during stacking.

Moving RJ back to 15 seconds would help our very limited RJ blanketing. The cost already keep it from becoming too out of control.

Having Revitalize back would help 25 man Druids that because it's a solid utility.

Mushroom is a good chance for Blizzard to fix our Mitigation CD issues, that always seems to rear it's ugly head late in the game on heroic content:

New Mushoom(I like the name "Crystalized Spores" myself:)Absorbs 20-25% damage bla bla bla lol

P.S. When they said they were adding a healer that does healing by doing damage I knew we'd slide down the totem pole a bit. I play another MMO that has a class that does this. You basically get laughed at if you spec the HOTS based healer. They can fill your Raid heals niche without playing the UI game as much. Plus there's another class there to Snipe HOTS.
Edited by Balferest on 12/9/2012 3:15 PM PST
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100 Troll Druid
11735
12/09/2012 12:05 AMPosted by Steewieg
Resto druids have the best mana control in the game im unsure of how you guys are running out of mana, maybe do a bit more research on your class, i do agree our healing output is low though


Perhaps you should talk to those restos running 25 mans. I'll agree that in 10s I don't seem to have any concerns of major importance but I have limited experience in heroics atm.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
13745
Wait Wait Wait. Restos have the best Mana control in the game? You mean 1 Rejuv Costing 10k Mana? You mean Innervate on a 3 Minute Cooldown, While priest have Mindbender on a 1 minute Cooldown? Priest have 15% Mana return druids have 20% But priest can use it 2 more times while innervate is still on cooldown. So 45% Mana every 3 minutes for priest , 20% Mana every 3 minutes for druids. We also dont have Rapture We dont have Lightning Bolt glyph or Resurgence we dont have Mana tea. Dont say resto druids have the best mana control in the game.
Edited by Totemtown on 12/9/2012 4:27 PM PST
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100 Night Elf Druid
7680
12/09/2012 04:26 PMPosted by Totemtown
Wait Wait Wait. Restos have the best Mana control in the game? You mean 1 Rejuv Costing 10k Mana? You mean Innervate on a 3 Minute Cooldown, While priest have Mindbender on a 1 minute Cooldown? Priest have 15% Mana return druids have 20% But priest can use it 2 more times while innervate is still on cooldown. So 45% Mana every 3 minutes for priest , 20% Mana every 3 minutes for druids. We also dont have Rapture We dont have Lightning Bolt glyph or Resurgence we dont have Mana tea. Dont say resto druids have the best mana control in the game.


Ye I don't think he accounted for 25 man Druids in his mana arguments, nor did I.... to a certain degree. I think a 10 man Druids mana seems better is because we can afford to be a little more patient.
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90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
Because there are less people to heal w/ rejuv.
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90 Night Elf Monk
11170
12/09/2012 04:26 PMPosted by Totemtown
Wait Wait Wait. Restos have the best Mana control in the game? You mean 1 Rejuv Costing 10k Mana? You mean Innervate on a 3 Minute Cooldown, While priest have Mindbender on a 1 minute Cooldown? Priest have 15% Mana return druids have 20% But priest can use it 2 more times while innervate is still on cooldown. So 45% Mana every 3 minutes for priest , 20% Mana every 3 minutes for druids. We also dont have Rapture We dont have Lightning Bolt glyph or Resurgence we dont have Mana tea. Dont say resto druids have the best mana control in the game.


You forgot about omen of clarity, the fact that rejuv has huge output for its mana cost, along with all the other free stuff we have. Also mindbender is a talent, shadowfiend is what you should be comparing innervate to, and he sucks. Teluric currents is not a mana gain, it barely pays for the cost of lightning bolt. Mana tea exists because monk mana is intentionally gimped in order to ensure they depend on chi, which is why its charges are built from consuming chi.

You can't just name every other healer mana regen mechanic completely regardless of context and pretend that means you understand things.
Edited by Nabudis on 12/9/2012 9:50 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Shaman
13745
Wait Wait Wait. Restos have the best Mana control in the game? You mean 1 Rejuv Costing 10k Mana? You mean Innervate on a 3 Minute Cooldown, While priest have Mindbender on a 1 minute Cooldown? Priest have 15% Mana return druids have 20% But priest can use it 2 more times while innervate is still on cooldown. So 45% Mana every 3 minutes for priest , 20% Mana every 3 minutes for druids. We also dont have Rapture We dont have Lightning Bolt glyph or Resurgence we dont have Mana tea. Dont say resto druids have the best mana control in the game.


You forgot about omen of clarity, the fact that rejuv has huge output for its mana cost, along with all the other free stuff we have. Also mindbender is a talent, shadowfiend is what you should be comparing innervate to, and he sucks. Teluric currents is not a mana gain, it barely pays for the cost of lightning bolt. Mana tea exists because monk mana is intentionally gimped in order to ensure they depend on chi, which is why its charges are built from consuming chi.

You can't just name every other healer mana regen mechanic completely regardless of context and pretend that means you understand things.


First off It Doesn't matter if its a talent or not Shadowfiend is also better then innervate. Omen of Clarity Procs what 7 8 times on a 6 minute fight? Infact that doesn't even help mana because the topic was rejuvs(The main healing Output Spell) Cost a !@#$ ton of mana when you're blanketing the raid with it. Also Im assuming you dont even have a shaman hahaha because On a 7 minute fight Lightning bolt gives me 300k+ Mana back. Go to Any log go see how much mana innervate gives Then go to another log and see how much mana tea gives. Mana tea doubles innervates if you're playing properly. You clearly know nothing.
Edited by Totemtown on 12/9/2012 10:06 PM PST
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90 Troll Druid
HC
12650
I think the guys' point is that these other classes have to spec/talent/glyph for the mana returns you're mentioning. Which could technically be a loss of something else like throughput or whatever.

But, the thing is Nabudis, these talents/glyphs/spec w/e's that people have to choose are not losing anything by doing so. They are actually getting a lot more out of it by doing it.

In fact, speccing for Mindbender is by far the best choice in that specific tier. TC is debatable but it also depends on the fight. I know plenty of rshams glyph for Totemic Recall in order to get more mana back. This is actually kind of like cheating, but they do it because it's the smart thing to do. There's really no better choice, and if there were, it'd be situational and dependent on the fight.

Resto druids have absolutely nothing else except Innervate. We have no glyph to make it reduce the CD. We have no talent to make it do something special and grant us more mana magically. Innervate is it. It's all we've got.

I am slightly irked to see so many people say "well you have OOC". I do not think OOC procs enough and works well enough with our set of spells for it to truly matter and count towards mana gained. Simply because it's only redeemed by casting regrowth or HT-- of which we hardly cast to begin with. OOC is basically free casts for harmony/LB uptime.
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100 Night Elf Druid
7680
I think the guys' point is that these other classes have to spec/talent/glyph for the mana returns you're mentioning. Which could technically be a loss of something else like throughput or whatever.

But, the thing is Nabudis, these talents/glyphs/spec w/e's that people have to choose are not losing anything by doing so. They are actually getting a lot more out of it by doing it.

In fact, speccing for Mindbender is by far the best choice in that specific tier. TC is debatable but it also depends on the fight. I know plenty of rshams glyph for Totemic Recall in order to get more mana back. This is actually kind of like cheating, but they do it because it's the smart thing to do. There's really no better choice, and if there were, it'd be situational and dependent on the fight.

Resto druids have absolutely nothing else except Innervate. We have no glyph to make it reduce the CD. We have no talent to make it do something special and grant us more mana magically. Innervate is it. It's all we've got.

I am slightly irked to see so many people say "well you have OOC". I do not think OOC procs enough and works well enough with our set of spells for it to truly matter and count towards mana gained. Simply because it's only redeemed by casting regrowth or HT-- of which we hardly cast to begin with. OOC is basically free casts for harmony/LB uptime.


Goodbye glyph of Rejuvenation hello glyph of Revitalize? You are right about OOC procs too. I don't get as many as I'd like even when Incarnation is up. Almost in a mocking fashion, I'll get like OOC proc number 3 just as Incarnation ends.
Edited by Balferest on 12/9/2012 11:02 PM PST
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90 Tauren Druid
10110
Wait Wait Wait. Restos have the best Mana control in the game? You mean 1 Rejuv Costing 10k Mana? You mean Innervate on a 3 Minute Cooldown, While priest have Mindbender on a 1 minute Cooldown? Priest have 15% Mana return druids have 20% But priest can use it 2 more times while innervate is still on cooldown. So 45% Mana every 3 minutes for priest , 20% Mana every 3 minutes for druids. We also dont have Rapture We dont have Lightning Bolt glyph or Resurgence we dont have Mana tea. Dont say resto druids have the best mana control in the game.


You forgot about omen of clarity, the fact that rejuv has huge output for its mana cost, along with all the other free stuff we have. Also mindbender is a talent, shadowfiend is what you should be comparing innervate to, and he sucks. Teluric currents is not a mana gain, it barely pays for the cost of lightning bolt. Mana tea exists because monk mana is intentionally gimped in order to ensure they depend on chi, which is why its charges are built from consuming chi.

You can't just name every other healer mana regen mechanic completely regardless of context and pretend that means you understand things.


Rejuv doesn't have a huge output for it's mana cost, I'm not sure where you are getting that from. Rejuv costs 8.6k mana with the 2 pc. It heals about 12.5k initially and approximately every 3 seconds afterwords for 12 seconds. That's 62.5k healing. This is the number from my current gear (ilvl approx 483). Compare that to my raid's holy priest's Renew which costs 1.5k and heals for about 8k with a lower ilvl. Rejuv has an effective mana cost of 7.3hpm, whereas renew has 21.3hpm. Resto druids are not fine. We either sacrifice throughput for the mana capabilities of the other healing classes, or we sacrifice all spirit for throughput and cannot last as long as the other healers to do COMPETITIVE healing comparatively. I'm not sure why GC thinks that resto druids are fine right now, if they are then every other healing class needs to receive a nerf. Rejuv is our staple ability and it has 1/3 the healing efficiency of Renew? I'm fairly certian preists just got buffed out of the wazoo too. And priests needed a buff but resto druids didnt, LOL.

Also Omen of Clarity only procs off of Lifebloom, and not often enough to make up for the anability to cast a filler (nourish costs 6.1k itself which is supposed to be our filler?).
Edited by Shulgoth on 12/9/2012 11:30 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
15705
I no longer main a resto druid so I may be a bit outdated. I abandoned the class I enjoy the most due to the dull idle feel at xpac launch.

Some concepts are really interesting as SM/Efflo ( in frontload x aoe decision) and even Wild Mushroom, although the implementation was poorly handled. Rejuv is somewhat strong and not a spam button as it was during wrath and cata (a bit).

But at same time, mana seems such a large constraint to gameplay that ties decision to very limited options. If mana is intended to play such a harsh role for resto druids, then active mana management options should be considered too. When I say mana management I don't mean mana regen. I like ooc procs because it gives a limited time window to spend that free mana on a spell one feels adequate ( yeah yeah I know it would be Regrowth but still is a choice). In the end, ooc is nice but doesn't fulfill the role because we have very little control outside incarnation.

I really wanted to see some mechanic that tie down our direct heals to a chance, proportional to *critical rate*, to spread hots on nearby targets. In particular, I'd like to see Nourish allowing 5% of current Rejuv being spread around 3 nearby targets, inheriting their parent modifier properties like extra %haste or %healing . Living seed is ok but suffer severe scaling problems from 10 to 25m while being really good for pvp.

In numbers we might even be "okay" but it still feels idle gameplay waiting for CDs and refreshing hots. The dpsing while idle thing isn't attractive to all players as well. Anyway, I no longer play a druid and, as I said, I might be wrong about the above.
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90 Night Elf Druid
10225
I agree that resto needs a look when it comes to mana regen. Its nothing gamebreaking but I do notice mana problems on some fights. Then I look over at our disc priest and holy paladin and they are at 60%+ mana and I'm close to oom lol. I'm not oom on every fight but when things get hectic (IE: constant regrowth spam on tanks during add phase on empress encounter) there is really no way to conserve mana in some situations. I always find a way to get the job done, but it seems like other classes don't have to work nearly as hard when it comes to output versus mana spent.

There just isn't really a lot in our tool-kit either: nourish, healing touch, and mushrooms are worthless. rejuv, SM, WG, LB, or regrowth are really all I use. I think the 2 piece tier needs to be implemented into the spec permenately. Output would be fine if mana cost of spells were adjusted.
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90 Worgen Druid
9985
Part of our problem with rejuv is that we almost will never see every single tick of a rejuv actually do healing. If we're lucky a couple rejuvs are ticking on targets with really low health or that are taking a lot of constant dmg but with all the 'bursty' encounters this tier (which is the majority) we get a couple ticks and the monks and shamans etc heal the raid up to where the ticks are overhealing and useless. Mushrooms should have been our tool for the the bursty dmg but we all know how they turned out.

Getting more precast for anticipated incoming dmg is all we can do but we're limited by the cost of the spell.

Rejuv is a great spell on fights like heroic Garalon or Heroic Will of the Emperor because there is high constant ticking dmg on the raid. But again, cost generally prohibits casting rejuv generously.

I personally don't think mana is *that* bad but it's easy to blow it trying to catch up to other healers.

And btw I'm raid 25mans (heroic)
Edited by Jykor on 12/10/2012 10:31 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Shaman
13745
No blues gonna respond to either threads? What figures.
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