Neutral Faction: A ponderance.

100 Worgen Druid
11800
So RPing today with a troll has made me wonder. We have all these minor neutral factions in game that have good relations with one another--or at least cordial ones: Cenarion Circle, the Earthen Ring, the Argent Crusade. They stand separate from the whole war, but no one has gotten the balls to band together to create a faction that tells both sides to take their silliness elsewhere, and focus on the more important things like healing the planet, or stopping real, legitimate threats. And, ya know, offering people a viable alternative to the whole alliance-horde decision.

So my sort of "weird question for the day" is this: If there was a neutral third faction, that welcomed anyone from any race or class, what would your character do? Would they join? Would they hate them? Why? What motivates them to one faction or another?

*nudges forums* lets get some interesting discussions going here. Ask questions, debate morality and ethics, etc.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
5420
If there was a neutral third faction, that welcomed anyone from any race or class, what would your character do? Would they join? Would they hate them? Why? What motivates them to one faction or another?
I believe that Qerrathien and Kessaera and Imalaya would join simply because they don't like the direction things have been going for sometime now. An alternative would be eagerly welcomed by all three. Two of which have families of their own to have priority concerns over, and the war between the factions simply interferes with handling the family affairs and businesses. Originally the Alliance was the only option for any of the three, but with a third option to go completely neutral - they would be able to expand on their businesses and handle affairs with their families without worrying about the war, and which faction tie to work with.
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A two sided war becomes three sided. To bundle neutral factions together would merely create a third faction bent on their own means, regardless if those means are world peace or otherwise.
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90 Goblin Rogue
15395
I believe neutrals are weaklings and cowards. I would stick with the Horde, or play as one of the few on the Alliance side that actually sees themselves as part of the Alliance.
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100 Worgen Druid
11800
12/05/2012 01:22 PMPosted by Qerrathien
If there was a neutral third faction, that welcomed anyone from any race or class, what would your character do? Would they join? Would they hate them? Why? What motivates them to one faction or another?
I believe that Qerrathien and Kessaera and Imalaya would join simply because they don't like the direction things have been going for sometime now. An alternative would be eagerly welcomed by all three. Two of which have families of their own to have priority concerns over, and the war between the factions simply interferes with handling the family affairs and businesses. Originally the Alliance was the only option for any of the three, but with a third option to go completely neutral - they would be able to expand on their businesses and handle affairs with their families without worrying about the war, and which faction tie to work with.


Would they try for trading? Perhaps peace negotiations and neighborly relationships with members of races that had always been enemies before? Friendships? We see demonstrations of cooperation and help in game, like the old conversations between members of the circle, or the quests in cata involving working with the earthen ring, trolls and krokul and draenei and tauren and orcs and goblins all sitting around the same campfire, trying to stop this enemy or that.

12/05/2012 01:22 PMPosted by Hohenzollern
A two sided war becomes three sided. To bundle neutral factions together would merely create a third faction bent on their own means, regardless if those means are world peace or otherwise.


Would it? What if the means was only a call for defense of friends and alllies and the innocent who have no part in the bloodthirst of either side? Would people abandoning either side to join a third party make the horde and alliance war machines lose steam? And yes, maybe they would have their own means and goals, but then again, does not every individual have their own personal agendas in every cause or action?
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90 Worgen Druid
8010
Luperious would Join ofcourse as would many of my characters. Mostly because the war makes no sense to me, I don't like the war mongering that has been done on both sides and would rather spend my IC time actually doing something more meaningful than trying to take lands that belong to another people
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100 Worgen Druid
11800
12/05/2012 01:25 PMPosted by Tadkins
I believe neutrals are weaklings and cowards. I would stick with the Horde, or play as one of the few on the Alliance side that actually sees themselves as part of the Alliance.


Why weak? What if the individual in question sees no point in the mindless slaughter of innocents who never fought and never wanted to fight as pointless? What if they have moral or ethical objections to things like, say, the use of Dark Shamans? Or shady tactics? What if they have no cause to be involved in feeling hate for a people that happened, by circumstance, to be involved on the otherside? What if they feel there are more important things to accomplish than killing every orc they see--like, oh, worrying about the plaguelands, or working to seal that massive tear Deathwing made across the whole of Azeroth.

@Lupe: Why? What about his history makes him see the war as pointless? What would he rather be doing? What causes and concerns motivate him to action and thought, to defending a cause instead of standing there, shaking his head? Does he possess no personal grudges?
Edited by Duskhowl on 12/5/2012 1:37 PM PST
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Would it? What if the means was only a call for defense of friends and alllies and the innocent who have no part in the bloodthirst of either side? Would people abandoning either side to join a third party make the horde and alliance war machines lose steam? And yes, maybe they would have their own means and goals, but then again, does not every individual have their own personal agendas in every cause or action?

Never wedge between war machines. Grouping up causes both the Alliance and Horde mistake that for hostile action. So whether the third faction wants peace or not, the idea of them banding together is not a good one.

Also, certain neutral organizations tend to lean either to the Horde or Alliance. Earthen Ring, some shamanistic Horde elements. Argent Dawn has an office in Stormwind, and the Cenarion Circle only recently took in Tauren.
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92 Tauren Druid
14925
12/05/2012 01:34 PMPosted by Duskhowl
I believe neutrals are weaklings and cowards. I would stick with the Horde, or play as one of the few on the Alliance side that actually sees themselves as part of the Alliance.


Why weak? What if the individual in question sees no point in the mindless slaughter of innocents who never fought and never wanted to fight as pointless? What if they have moral or ethical objections to things like, say, the use of Dark Shamans? Or shady tactics? What if they have no cause to be involved in feeling hate for a people that happened, by circumstance, to be involved on the otherside? What if they feel there are more important things to accomplish than killing every orc they see--like, oh, worrying about the plaguelands, or working to seal that massive tear Deathwing made across the whole of Azeroth.


Or vice versa. I am a Neutral character bent of preserving Nature and all its wonders like the Cenarion Circle. I don't hold much allegiance to the Horde since they have been more destructive with its surroundings.
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90 Goblin Rogue
15395
12/05/2012 01:34 PMPosted by Duskhowl
I believe neutrals are weaklings and cowards. I would stick with the Horde, or play as one of the few on the Alliance side that actually sees themselves as part of the Alliance.


Why weak? What if the individual in question sees no point in the mindless slaughter of innocents who never fought and never wanted to fight as pointless? What if they have moral or ethical objections to things like, say, the use of Dark Shamans? Or shady tactics? What if they have no cause to be involved in feeling hate for a people that happened, by circumstance, to be involved on the otherside? What if they feel there are more important things to accomplish than killing every orc they see--like, oh, worrying about the plaguelands, or working to seal that massive tear Deathwing made across the whole of Azeroth.


War is hell. Neutrals are weak because they are essentially abandoning their home race. That human sitting pretty in the Argent Crusade is one less human supporting King Varian and the Alliance, and helping to end the war so that none of the stuff you mentioned needs to happen again. By going neutral you're essentially allowing your kin to die.

Heck, the biggest example of what I mean is Thrall. Look at the mess he made by going neutral.
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Nah. I like killing Alliance.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
5420
Would they try for trading? Perhaps peace negotiations and neighborly relationships with members of races that had always been enemies before? Friendships? We see demonstrations of cooperation and help in game, like the old conversations between members of the circle, or the quests in cata involving working with the earthen ring, trolls and krokul and draenei and tauren and orcs and goblins all sitting around the same campfire, trying to stop this enemy or that.
Most likely for the former and the latter. Qerrathien has family that branches into the Horde honestly, distant cousins that she speaks very little of.

Imalaya may have a dear friend that happens to be a supporter of the Earthen Ring, but is part of the Horde as well, much to her regret.

Kessaera just doesn't care for the war at all, and prefers to serve as a healer for any that is wounded, no matter what factional ties they bare.

If any of the three had a choice on the factional ties, they would most likely stay out of the way and away from the fighting as much as possible.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6265
12/05/2012 01:25 PMPosted by Tadkins
I believe neutrals are weaklings and cowards. I would stick with the Horde, or play as one of the few on the Alliance side that actually sees themselves as part of the Alliance.


That's part of the reason why Rucifel and some of the Brotherhood of the Dawn sided with the Alliance in the war with the discovery of Pandaria. If someone's going to win, they want to make sure it's going to be the Alliance.
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90 Human Paladin
11695
12/05/2012 01:17 PMPosted by Duskhowl
Would they join?
No.

12/05/2012 01:17 PMPosted by Duskhowl
Would they hate them?
Yes.

12/05/2012 01:17 PMPosted by Duskhowl
Why?
The Horde's still around, mainly the Forsaken, in Lordaeron and as far as Orcs go; On this planet.

12/05/2012 01:17 PMPosted by Duskhowl
What motivates them to one faction or another?
See nearly everyone you know die and your home ripped from you, you tend to take the offer of revenge and reclaimation pretty quickly. Hence why he joined the Crusade.
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100 Worgen Druid
11800
@Hohen: Why? So many are disillusioned with both sides of the war. The horde appears to be falling in on itself: Vol'jin and the trolls are about to walk away, the Blood Elves are considering opening dialogue with the Alliance again, and renewing old ties....The goblins will go whatever way pays them the most money, and how long do you think the tauren are going to sit by and let Garrosh violate the land to feed the orcs? And the alliance: You've got Velen seeing a bigger picture than anyone else, an ancient prophecy that is his guiding hope, the Night Elves, many of whom are bound up in neutral organizations such as the guardians of hyjal and the Cenarion Circle, or are mostly interested in protecting their ancestral homelands from EVERYONE. The worgen are still dealing with their own internal issues, the loss of Gilneas, the fight between man and beast, even the acceptance of the worgen by their still human kindred. And there are many representatives from alliance races making up the majority of things LIKE the Argent crusade, the ebon blade, and even the Circle.

@Settingsun: What does drive your character to fight? What things does he stand against? Would he defend the natural world from anyone seeking to destroy it? Would he be driven to anger in any particular instance? What stakes does he have in any cause? Does he understand the hesitance of the elves to welcome the Shu'halo into the Circle? Or does that cause a bitter feeling in him? What about other groups like the Earthen Ring, or the Crusade? Does he have any group that causes him to feel hate or disgust?

@Tadkins: What if they have no family, no kin? What if all of their kinsmen feel the same as they? What about neutrality that isnt about fence sitting, but rather about having vastly different causes, beliefs and goals? Is a character, standing up for what they truly believe in a weakness? Or simply a different kind of strength?

@Prax: Uh huh. Which is why you come to the grove and /dance. *pats* Coming to the party Friday?

@Q: Like I've asked some of the others, what do they feel is worth fighting for? What would drive them to taking a stand? In what instances WOULD they pick a faction? Is there some group that agitates them, causes hate and anger to simmer? What causes do they stand for?

@Rucifel: Why? What makes the Alliance better than the horde? They have committed their share of atrocities, like putting orcs in concentration camps after the second war (even though many wanted to simply execute all of them), the actions of Admiral Proudmoore and his ilk in the third war before his death, to and include holding his own daughter prisoner because she was conversing with "the enemy." Even in the last few expansions, Varian Wrynn has been preaching a doctrine of hatred and violence in regards to members of the horde races. Look at the speech he gives to the pandaren who join the alliance.

@Karob: What about the races of the horde that have had little to nothing to do with the destruction of Lordaeron. The tauren for example. In point of fact, much of the cleansing and healing in the plaguelands that has occured is because of the efforts of the tauren and the kaldorei from the Cenarion Circle that spent...the better part of three expansions discussing how best to heal the land there. Rimblat, I think his name was? Does Karob bear hatred for them, simply because circumstances put them on the horde?
Edited by Duskhowl on 12/5/2012 2:23 PM PST
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100 Night Elf Hunter
4490
I have to agree with Hozenhollern... All it does is divvy the cake up a different way: neutral vs. Non-neutral. Maybe this is a crappy example but it makes me think if the United Nations. A truly neutral faction IMO is like a monopole: it can only exist where there is no force opposing it.
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90 Goblin Rogue
15395
@Tadkins: What if they have no family, no kin? What if all of their kinsmen feel the same as they? What about neutrality that isnt about fence sitting, but rather about having vastly different causes, beliefs and goals? Is a character, standing up for what they truly believe in a weakness? Or simply a different kind of strength?


I should rephrase, when I said "kin" I was more thinking of one's fellow race. That said, there are worgen that are fighting under the banner of the Alliance, and dying for your freedom.

There is a war going on that simply can't be ignored. You can either support your fellows or abandon them to their fate. There is no strength to be found in the latter choice.
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100 Blood Elf Death Knight
13535
You would have to understand how much of a life altering event it would be to leave your faction. It would take an emotional change to leave your own people and culture to join a neutral party that is abolished of these set norms. I don't think we as players, truly understand what it would be like to make that kind of decision.

Neutral factions have a singular purpose that is very narrow and shallow in depth. Honestly, a neutral faction wouldn't benefit Azeroth in the way that the other major factions will.
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86 Human Death Knight
9985
I think it might actually be interesting to have the members within each faction that are morally opposed (like tauren/pandaren and Forsaken, some future rivalry in the Alliance since everyone is pretty much in agreement at this point) to have more open internal conflict, and maybe even have story based pvp within the faction.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
5420
@Q: Like I've asked some of the others, what do they feel is worth fighting for? What would drive them to taking a stand? In what instances WOULD they pick a faction? Is there some group that agitates them, causes hate and anger to simmer? What causes do they stand for?
They protect their own, family, people that they were born to.

What would drive them to take a stand is one of their own coming to harm by either faction, it doesn't matter if you are horde or alliance, you harm family, you die by family hands and I'm not talking about a small group, I'm talking about an entire noble house chasing you down and killing you on the spot without question.

Faction does not really come into play with any of them, simply because they don't believe that either of the leaders have it right, and would rather go their own way than tail behind either one. All three of them are strong independent females (Hurpderp, don't need no male!) and they prefer to stay that way. The only reason they are even tied to the Alliance is well..game mechanics. Not much of a choice there, really.

If some group stirs trouble, they tend to avoid them rather than confronting them. Anger and hate can brew quite a bit of negativity and none of them want to deal with it.

Kess stands for the Circle, and the Ring, as well as working closely with the Accord.
Imalaya sticks with the Circle, and doesn't much like the human leadership of the Alliance.
Q, well..she does her own thing. Her guild/family is all she really has, and protecting them is what she prefers to do with her life. If that means she lays her life down to ensure the life of a member of her family, then so be it.
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