To those who changed to gnome mistweavers...

100 Human Monk
14995
Was it worth it? I am considering it.
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90 Draenei Priest
10595
For my opinion, wait for the next hot fix, btw gear ilvl > 5% mana pool
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90 Gnome Monk
6945
I honestly feel that ascension will be nerfed to 5% wait it out like above post said
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90 Pandaren Monk
11210
12/05/2012 03:08 AMPosted by Milkman
I honestly feel that ascension will be nerfed to 5% wait it out like above post said


Why would Ascension be nerfed? It's still the weakest of the 3 talents on that tier for regen and mana efficiency, and also is the only one of the 3 that provides no increase at all to healing output.
Edited by Daerien on 12/5/2012 4:21 AM PST
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90 Gnome Monk
7430
What is this "changed" you speak of?

I rolled in as a gnome cuz a) mana for mw and b) expertise for swords in BM (thought about human for spirit and maces but I mained a human priest for 6 years)

I rolled ascension as MW cuz I liked being able to hold 3 chi and still use t30/uplift or envelop and hold 2 for aoe use. It also made it much less likely that I would waste potential chi by capping too fast.

The ascension change was just an unexpected bonus, 362.2 k mana is pretty nice to have.
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85 Gnome Monk
1345
I rolled a gnome monk alt cuz they are possibly cuter than a gnome warrior
and if you can synchronize a roll with a knock back in pvp/duels, such as shammy's thunderstorm or hunter's rhino, its kinda like soccer

altho for serious gameplay, i wonder if a gnome's sck have a smaller area of effect compared to human or bigger races? it looks like it but im not sure
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90 Gnome Monk
7430
12/05/2012 06:28 AMPosted by Babytaco
altho for serious gameplay, i wonder if a gnome's sck have a smaller area of effect compared to human or bigger races? it looks like it but im not sure


While the graphic looks smaller, I see a lot of numbers popping from well outside the graphic so I expect the area of effect is consistent with other races.
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85 Draenei Shaman
8770
I rolled gnome from the begining.. And its always been worth it.. ;)
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90 Gnome Monk
15385
I just rolled gnome because they're the best. The mana is just a bonus.
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100 Human Monk
14995
I honestly feel that ascension will be nerfed to 5% wait it out like above post said


Why would Ascension be nerfed? It's still the weakest of the 3 talents on that tier for regen and mana efficiency, and also is the only one of the 3 that provides no increase at all to healing output.


umm...no? 13800 mana per tea vs 12000. it's 225 more mana per sec than not having it. Over the course of a 5 min fight that's 67500 more mana and that's only using 1 every mana tea cooldown, it could easily be 100k more mana during a fight. Changing to a gnome would increase it to 14488 per tea making it 311 mana per sec (93k over 5 min with using 1 tea every cd.) I can also see you're using that terrible talent...

The only thing I'm worried about is, will spirit on gear in future content make human spirit bonus exceed the gnome 5% mana racial? Spirit will keep going up making regen faster but mana will always be a set amount.
Edited by Eldarc on 12/5/2012 11:37 AM PST
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91 Gnome Monk
17130
I started as a gnome. For the same reason if I were horde I'd be a tauren:

I don't play races for the racials (usually) because Min/Max isn't fun for me. I picked Gnome because a tiny monk is AWESOME and if I ever rolled horde, Tauren. Because TAUREN TORPEDO!
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90 Gnome Monk
8535
I used to be a panda but man with gear it looks like !@#$. I rolled gnome because they look freaking cool in monk gear. Lol I didn't even know about the racial. Explains why I have 367k mana. You can never complain about more mana. The escape is helpful also. The biggest benefit I find though is that we are really hard to find in pvp situations especially when there is a lot going on. I usually can sit in a corner and heal. Gnome monk animations are cool also.
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100 Blood Elf Monk
13105


Why would Ascension be nerfed? It's still the weakest of the 3 talents on that tier for regen and mana efficiency, and also is the only one of the 3 that provides no increase at all to healing output.


umm...no? 13800 mana per tea vs 12000. it's 225 more mana per sec than not having it. Over the course of a 5 min fight that's 67500 more mana and that's only using 1 every mana tea cooldown, it could easily be 100k more mana during a fight. Changing to a gnome would increase it to 14488 per tea making it 311 mana per sec (93k over 5 min with using 1 tea every cd.) I can also see you're using that terrible talent...

The only thing I'm worried about is, will spirit on gear in future content make human spirit bonus exceed the gnome 5% mana racial? Spirit will keep going up making regen faster but mana will always be a set amount.
1 free chi every 20 seconds is worth much, much more than 1800 mana per tea charge.

inc copypasta:

The value of one free chi is the mana per chi cost of your generator (11.7k in Jab's case, a little less for soothing) plus the average mana tea gain from one chi (3000 * 1.[crit chance], so 3450 at 15% crit.) With jab/15% crit that means one free chi is 15150 mana, so 1 free chi every 20s is 3787.5 mp5. And the PS buff now refreshes 20s after application, not consumption, so there's no loss if you delay your cast a bit, meaning that 3787.5 mp5 is pretty reliable. For chi brew, of course, you just change it to 4 free chi every 90s, which becomes 3366 mp5 (but of course, you don't take chi brew and use it exactly on cooldown, so that number is less useful than the PS one.)

Ascension, on the other hand, is 45k static mana (625 mp5 in a 6-minute fight) plus an additional 15% from tea (at 15% crit that's 517.5 mana per chi.) So in order for ascension to beat PS for regen in a 6-minute fight, you have to get 3162 mp5 from the tea bonus, which requires you to spend an average of 6.11 chi every 5 seconds. Maintaining an average of 6 chi generated per second is obviously impossible outside of extreme levels of haste + CJL/soothing, let along spending that chi, so Ascension in its current form will never be a better mana regen talent than Power Strikes. You primarily should be taking it for the increasted chi cap, the benefit of which is much harder to quantify.

(As a side note, by the same math Arcane Torrent is 631 mp5, which is 3.7 times the regen given to you by the Panda racial with 300 spirit food, as well as 2.5 times the benefit it gives to other mana-based classes.)
Edited by Suzushiirou on 12/5/2012 4:37 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
10825
Last I had looked it up prior to ascension buff, human racial was breaking even with gnome racial around 15000 spirit. Assuming you run ascension, then the necessary human spirit to compete scales too. I honestly just figured that by the time I'd have enough spirit to make human racial better, I would be in a good enough spot with my mana not to consider another race change.

This was assuming 2 teas per 15 seconds which is modest yet sustained. It's been a while so take it with a grain of salt, my memory might fail me but ultimately it isn't too hard to calculate.
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inc copypasta:



yummmmmmmmmmmmm Copypasta
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90 Gnome Monk
7430
The value of one free chi is the mana per chi cost of your generator (11.7k in Jab's case, a little less for soothing) plus the average mana tea gain from one chi (3000 * 1.[crit chance], so 3450 at 15% crit.) With jab/15% crit that means one free chi is 15150 mana, so 1 free chi every 20s is 3787.5 mp5. And the PS buff now refreshes 20s after application, not consumption, so there's no loss if you delay your cast a bit, meaning that 3787.5 mp5 is pretty reliable. For chi brew, of course, you just change it to 4 free chi every 90s, which becomes 3366 mp5 (but of course, you don't take chi brew and use it exactly on cooldown, so that number is less useful than the PS one.)


This, of course, makes several assumptions about your chi usage and other things.

1) you never accidentally use it when chi capped as it will only put 1 chi in an orb even if you would normally gain 2

2) you are always able to retrieve the orb spawned and don't accidentally trigger any while at cap (which is possible to do)

3) you are using jab to trigger it, it is actually a lot less for soothing as it triggers on the first tick whether it normally generates chi or not, same with cjl (note: from my testing there appears to be an issue with soothing not triggering it when self-cast)

so, new math using your 15% crit example: if soothing triggers power strikes you get 6281/20 secs or 1570.25 mp5, well down from your 3787.5 number

for cjl trigger you get 8169/20 secs or 2042.25 mp5

which still assumes perfect chi usage. The change to power strikes actually was a "nerf" in this regard although it really is only a theoretical number for the sake of trying to compare green and red apples.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6685
12/05/2012 05:11 AMPosted by Linnelle
b) expertise for swords in BM


This made me chuckle. You have no idea, do you? lol
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100 Pandaren Monk
9420
(As a side note, by the same math Arcane Torrent is 631 mp5, which is 3.7 times the regen given to you by the Panda racial with 300 spirit food, as well as 2.5 times the benefit it gives to other mana-based classes.)


Wow, I had no idea what the value of Arcane Torrent was...I'm so jealous now. Another reason I wish I was Horde.

Btw, Suzu, grats on your realm first last night.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6570
12/06/2012 03:17 PMPosted by Pandahmonium
b) expertise for swords in BM


This made me chuckle. You have no idea, do you? lol


Maybe he has two Krol Scimitars DON'T JUDGE HIM.
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100 Human Monk
18060
12/05/2012 11:34 AMPosted by Eldarc
The only thing I'm worried about is, will spirit on gear in future content make human spirit bonus exceed the gnome 5% mana racial? Spirit will keep going up making regen faster but mana will always be a set amount.


While I have nothing to actually base this on aside from my own assumptions, I imagine with set mana pools we won't see as huge a jump in spirit as we will in other secondary stats. They're not going to want to create another situation like every other expansion where eventually mana doesn't matter and the easiest way to avoid that is if the gear for the next tier can have ~300 more secondary stats (ignoring the fact that I don't think stat allocation is linear), they'd just increase spirit by 100 and say haste by 200. It has zero impact on dps specs since they'd still be gaining in the spi->hit conversion, but it'd keep healers in check.
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