State of Mistweavers as of 12/4/2012

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100 Pandaren Monk
9105
Healing sphere pre-patch was less efficient than jabx2(or3 depending on chi)->EnvM, and EnvM had the power to bring tanks back up from low while under its effect, even accounting for overhealing.
As such, healing spheres were not useful pre-patch. There may have been 1 or 2 niche fights or times where they are useful, but as tank healing, spot healing, or ANY major part of our toolkit, they were utterly terrible comparing to everything else. The reason they're so strong now, is their scaling was INCREASED while their mana costs were untouched.
Or for math, they're 1.2x effective.
EnvM costs 30% more than pre-patch, and heals for 1/3 less. Or it's (2/3)/(1.3) or...
53% as effective with ondemand healing (jab for chi).
So by comparison, they look somewhere around 240% more attractive now than they used to, and that is why they are godly.
As for ReM:
While I do reliably get 15 RnM on the raid during AoE fights like garalon/tsulong (despite the complaints I hear from other healers, it seems to spread just fine for me [caveat: sometimes i notice extremely low target counts, but this is like...5% of situations or less]), I also know that they most definitely do not choose the lowest health target. The only time the lower health targets get hit, is when I manually target them. And when theres 2-3 low health targets that need to be picked up? Well I hope someone else notices, because I'll kill the raid by dropping HPS SIGNIFICANTLY to pick them up, when my "smart heal" is NOT being even remotely smart. And that is why I have a problem with ReM not being "smart".

Glyph of Mana tea:
Only 2 things are going to happen;
Case 1:
You're going to have plenty of free time and not be generating enough stacks to matter, and it won't matter if you consume w/ glyph or without.
Case 2:
You'll be global locked and generating as many stacks as possible, as such glyph pulls ahead to 2 stacks/1global comparing to 1stack/global unglyphed. As such, I will continue to prefer glyphed, because unless you do not hit it on CD, it's quite nearly impossible to generate more stacks than you can consume over a fight (barring ridiculously "good" RNG near the end of the fight.)
Showing above:
High HPS rotation: some form of 2 chi generators, 1 spender. 3 globals/2chi, 9globals/6chi.
Add Mana tea 10th global. => 10 globals/6chi.
So you need 1.5 tea stacks to become greater than 2 tea stacks. 1.5*(1+x)=2 where x is crit chance, x needs to be 1/3 or ~ 33% crit chance. I'm barely hitting 25% crit, esp. after hitting the new haste cap, so it will be a long time until I reach that crit chance cap.
This is only during constant chi gen during the entire fight at that rate. If it slows down, or anything like that, then you can almost certainly consume as many charges as you generate (barring absurd RNG).
Ultimately, in high-stress situations, that 10th global isn't going to 'tank your HPS", but it WILL keep your mana stable. On the other hand, your mana will be unstable w/o glyph. Further, because mana tea (at least when I tested) was backloaded, it means if you have to interrupt your tea for any reason, be it tank healing or spot healing or what have you (theres a lot of times where I don't want to be standing still channeling while not healing a tank, especially on heroic modes) then it's an even further waste of globals (just the one global at a time per tea, not all of them, to be clear). Ultimately, the glyph means wasting more time drinking tea and less time using spells, as well as having less ability to react to heal spike damage. Seeing as spike damage is the only reason my particularly tanks ever die, I'm going to stick with the glyph. YMMV.

As for tank healing:
In a competitive H25M environment where the tank not being topped for 3-4 seconds can mean imminent death, MW tank heals were absurdly weak. We were stuck in a catch-22 where healing spheres weren't that powerful yet, and were very inefficient, but our efficient heal is very strong!...however it is a HoT which often averages 80% overhealing in my raids even when i only heal during high tank damage periods.
Now, since I've gained something like 6k+ spellpower, and scaling was buffed to 120%, my HS's average 170k HPS. That destroys everything everyone else can throw out, while being our most mana efficient heal to boot. How much of a joke is that? Yes, now we can tank heal fine, and we will have more mana for healing sphere because we'll be doing less of everything else because those spells are comparatively worse. But pre-patch? No, we were the worst tank healers in the game, by FAR, at least in heroic 25m raids.

Also, healing spheres are a large portion of my tank healing, but ReM/uplift is normally well above them, so don't get "too" crazy with it. Our AoE heals are still more mana efficient. (Assuming low overhealing...which is as impossible to predict as when our HS's get consumed.)
100 Blood Elf Monk
17985
Druids have always been like this. Don't mind him.

source: I was a druid for 6 years.
90 Pandaren Monk
7195
Pretty good post Mist, I was hoping they would go more in the way of making Fist Weaving something more than just spaming Jabs. I was hoping that perhaps our mastery would be changed to give more healing for more dps / damage done with in and AoE radius of our statue. Or something where we might gain a % of MP/5 based on our damage. I just felt that monkes should be able to heal better the more dps we can do. I mean it just makes sense, to me and would give monkes a very different way of healing than any other class.

The more damage you did the more you could heal basically.


I agree with this. I really wanted Mistweaver to be a DPS/Healer. Not to the point that you want mistweavers so you can beat an enrage but just something healthy. The issue atm is that with 1:1 dps:healing, you can do 30k dps and 30k HPS (assuming people are hurt). It costs mana to do so unless people are hurt you should probably chill out and auto-attack, granted this isn't super common in a raid environment, but gets more common if you have a disc priest with you and people are shielded.

I think the ultimate problem is that there is a class of player that wants a more challenging playing experience, and that's why monks exist, -but- for the sake of almighty balance our potential has to be capped with everyone elses, meaning we ultimately have to work harder to achieve similar results. In the end we'll probably just get dumbed down and leveled out unfortunately. I hope I'm wrong, I like putting more in to get more out but I can understand that it's not "balanced" in the long run.
I don't really see where they are going with HS, in PvP even with my crap gear I was able to tank a ret pally, warrior and kitty, while on the move and don't have to worry about getting interrupted.
100 Night Elf Druid
14140
Second best healing class complains more than last place resto druids. lol gg.


I guess if you had any ide what your talking about instead of your air head comments I guess we might belive you.

Raidbots by the spec since the mana nerf

10 man normal Monks 5th place / Duids 3rd place
10 man Heroic Monks 3rd / Druids 4th, but don't worry monks are still dropping
25 LFR ............ Monks 6th / Druids 5th
25 Normal ....... Monks 4th / Druids 6th
25 Heroic ....... Monks 3rd / Druids 5th

As I said you have no idea what your talking about....


Um.... quite a few of your numbers are off, like completely wrong:

SPEC Score:


10 man normal Monks 3rd place / Druids 4th place
10 man Heroic Monks 2nd / Druids 4th
25 LFR ............ Monks 2nd / Druids 6th
25 Normal ....... Monks 3rd / Druids 6th
25 Heroic ....... Monks 2nd / Druids 6th

Average: Monks ~2.3, Druids ~5.3

Pure HPS:


10 man normal Monks 3rd place / Druids 5th place
10 man Heroic Monks 4th / Druids 5th
25 LFR ............ Monks 5th / Druids 6th
25 Normal ....... Monks 4th / Druids 6th
25 Heroic ....... Monks 3rd / Druids 6th

Average: Monks ~3.8, Druids ~5.5

By every measure monks are still quite a bit stronger then druids, in every single format. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

Not to get all Druidy up in here, but get your facts straight.

In general, after the dust has settled a bit, Monk HPS looks fine. Still really good actually. Nothing needs to be changed there. As for the mechanic and QoL issues, that's another story. But any significant changes to revert the mana nerfs should be accompanied by reductions in coefficients to compensate and keep them roughly where they are, because it looks fine.
Edited by Fangthorn on 12/8/2012 1:25 PM PST
100 Night Elf Druid
14140
Druids have always been like this. Don't mind him.

source: I was a druid for 6 years.


You mean correct?

Because when it comes to your requested focus of 25man heroic raiding Monks are still the 2nd or 3rd best spec in terms of HPS.

Really no problems there, and honestly no real urgency in that regard. Mechanics are another story but I think that will take until 5.2 or beyond for them to get a handle on. In the mean time Monks should be able to manage just fine, the play-style might be messed up a bit, but no ones losing a raid spot over this...
90 Pandaren Monk
12500
12/08/2012 01:30 PMPosted by Fangthorn
Really no problems there, and honestly no real urgency in that regard. Mechanics are another story but I think that will take until 5.2 or beyond for them to get a handle on. In the mean time Monks should be able to manage just fine, the play-style might be messed up a bit, but no ones losing a raid spot over this...


Tell that to Maladii. Blood Legion has him back permanently on his Disc priest. If he had no ready-to-run healer, he'd be out a raid spot.
90 Pandaren Monk
6950
Tell that to Maladii. Blood Legion has him back permanently on his Disc priest. If he had no ready-to-run healer, he'd be out a raid spot.


Blood Legions other MW Affinichi also expects to be back on his Priest for the next teir of raid content if there aren't changes made.

Parses are all good and well, but as it has been stated here in this thread ad nauseam one of the significant issue with MW'ers is not necessarily the raw HPS numbers we able to produce but the ability to place effective healing where and when it's actually needed.
Edited by Intêrferêncê on 12/8/2012 2:17 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Priest
14860
Tell that to Maladii. Blood Legion has him back permanently on his Disc priest. If he had no ready-to-run healer, he'd be out a raid spot.


You make it sound like it wasn't my decision to make my priest my main again =P
Regardless, I'll still be playing mistweaver in some of our farm raids. I just don't enjoy it.
90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
yeah... gara'jal took a good 8 more attempts yesterday because we had our monk and shaman 2 healing and the monk's renewing mists was only bouncing to pets.he had to resort to SCK'ing a ton of the time to keep up. the majority of wipes were accompanied by !@#$ i'm OOM in vent.

(i was dpsing because i have the best dps set of all the healers... go figure, the one healer that can cheese the fight can't heal it.)
100 Troll Shaman
16325

By every measure monks are still quite a bit stronger then druids, in every single format. EVERY SINGLE ONE.


By the way, monks are the class druids are competing against for leather gear and raid postions.

The monks responsible for this thread should be slapped.


I don't know why you're getting mad at mistweavers making a constructive thread to address their issues (which are legitimate btw). You act as if it's their fault that resto druid is comparatively the worse healing spec atm and not the other 4 healing specs that also do more hps and bring more utility on top of that.

If you want your class's issues to be discussed, then make a constructive resto druid thread. Don't try to de-rail other threads because you think that your own class is the only thing that matters.
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