Arcane - Scorch Weaving vs. Stack Dropping

90 Troll Mage
9100
I just switched from fire over to arcane. We raided for the first time last night and before that I had a chance to hit the dummies for a few hours. I put out pretty decent damage and ranked on some fights by scorch weaving. Looking at logs though it looks like dropping stacks is ranking higher. So which is better?

Scorch Weaving
Build up to 6 stacks then weave between 1 arcane blast, then 1 arcane missile, back and forth trying to stay above 80% mana for as long as possible. If you have no arcane missile procs weave between arcane blast & scorch until you have arcane missiles then resume arcane blast and missiles.

Drop Stacks
Same thing as above trying to keep 6 stacks and above 80% as long as possible. If you dip below 80% and have no missile procs then Arcane Barrage and start building stacks again.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/jbjhoo0wo2lfn1wq/ - our parses from last night. Granted my results are a bit skewed this is my first time in a live setting. I hope for my numbers to improve as I get more comfortable with the spec.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/esb5fnkknzsdy1bz/sum/damageDone/?s=1122&e=1520#Merlini - Lei Shi fight where Merlini managed to rank 5th overall. It looks like he is using barrage to drop stacks.

Any crit would be much appreciated. Thanks for taking a look.
Edited by Gravitation on 12/5/2012 10:07 AM PST
Reply Quote
I note that Blatty insists that dropping stacks is death...but amusingly is also not thrilled with scorch weaving. He thinks it is possible to keep up the stack without using scorch and mostly has been able to do so during the streams I saw on Sunday and Monday. He never lets it drop if he can possibly avoid it.

He prefers fishing procs with AB if it comes down to that and seems to be saving his gem for when he is forced to do this. He also thinks that loose mana is a bad glyph, and prefers to get it all up front.

He had a fairly long discussion about this on Monday after clearing Will of the Emps. (He was able to keep up the stack throughout that fight until he had to eat a spark.)
Reply Quote
100 Human Mage
14830
12/05/2012 10:04 AMPosted by Gravitation
So which is better?

They're completely the same.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7320081962
Reply Quote
90 Troll Mage
9100
Awesome, thanks for the break down. I think I'm going to go with scorch weaving for now. I really like the game play.

Gone is seeing how big of an ignite you can get and welcome keeping your stacks as long as possible.

Arcane explosion on boss to keep stacks
Clip missiles if you have to to keep stacks
Reply Quote
Gravitation, a suggestion: you might want to glyph AE if you intend to use it for stack maintainance.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Mage
11910
I was on a dummy last night for about 20 minutes attemping the arcane rotation which included dropping stacks, my DPS stabalized around 64k.

Afterwards, I came on the forums and a user posted about scorch weaving and it's better not to drop stacks, I sat on the dummys for another 20 minutes and my DPS stabalized at around 67k DPS.

So, in theory I guess it's better but I'm not sure raid wise.
Edited by Wyzeguyy on 12/5/2012 10:59 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Troll Mage
9100
Blatty is raiding right now testing scorch weaving and is crushing it. Just ranked 6th overall on heroic Zor'lok 25m.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Heart_of_Fear/Imperial_Vizier_Zor'lok/25H/dps/

Stream is here http://www.twitch.tv/blatty
Reply Quote
90 Human Mage
11765
I note that Blatty insists that dropping stacks is death...but amusingly is also not thrilled with scorch weaving. He thinks it is possible to keep up the stack without using scorch and mostly has been able to do so during the streams I saw on Sunday and Monday. He never lets it drop if he can possibly avoid it.

He prefers fishing procs with AB if it comes down to that and seems to be saving his gem for when he is forced to do this. He also thinks that loose mana is a bad glyph, and prefers to get it all up front.

He had a fairly long discussion about this on Monday after clearing Will of the Emps. (He was able to keep up the stack throughout that fight until he had to eat a spark.)


understand that his gear will be much better than the broad majority of mages playing the game. Also, something to consider is the fact that he raids 25man and all buffs will present giving him a further edge over the majority of players.
The game will be balanced for PvE around this type of setting and not balanced around what undergeared players in 10man w/o full class buffs are able to do.
What someone considered one of the best is capable of doing is a great goal to shoot for but might not always be a realistic goal. Take what he does with a grain of salt and be realistic with your own capabilities and raid settings.

Mana management being the major issue with keeping 6stacks means that players won't be able to blindly "keep a 6stack and never dump it".

Something else to consider. I could be misquoting when I say this but I'm pretty sure it was stated by either a Blue or Green that the design intent for Arcane was not that they be able to keep a 6stack up indefinitely. If mages are able to do that and it is in fact unintended you could be nerfed. Keep in mind this was before the resent buffs and the design intent may have changed. I would be wary of doing things unintended w/o considering how you might fix it if/when and issue is sighted by blues. Wish you all well in playing arcane and hope it goes as well as you all hope, sincerely.
Edited by Slatra on 12/5/2012 11:05 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Human Mage
11765
12/05/2012 11:03 AMPosted by Slatra
Mana management being the major issue with keeping 6stacks means that players won't be able to blindly "keep a 6stack and never dump it".


not saying everyone will blindly do anything but a lot of people come here looking for advice and will indeed blindly do what the best player said was the thing to do b/c they don't know any better.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Mage
9100
Deerde sounds like a good idea. I'll give that a try tonight.
Reply Quote
Hmm, he changed his mind a bit on scorch it looks like.

Slatra, at this point dev intent on perm stack is unclear. Personally I am somewhat skeptical that what's going on now is intended, but who knows? I could very easily see them jacking up cast cost some if arcane overperforms.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Mage
9100
Slatra I think it comes down to play style. Keeping above 80% w/ 6 stack is non-trivial. Hopefully they won't nerf it because it's not as if you hit the same button over and over again and your mana magically remains at 80%+. You have to intelligently place RoP, properly use cooldowns, and weave.

All in all this might have been unintended in the original design but I think they have stumbled on to something really cool and fun.
Reply Quote
Yeah, if nothing else perma stack raises the skill cap on the spec. It's not easy to pull it off on a lot of fights.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Mage
9100
Deerde btw I'd drop mana gem, it's only good on fights lasting longer than 9 minutes. Just a min max thing. :) Also get rid of loose mana, not so hot for arcane.
Edited by Gravitation on 12/5/2012 11:20 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Human Mage
IQ
8250
12/05/2012 11:02 AMPosted by Gravitation
Blatty is raiding right now testing scorch weaving and is crushing it. Just ranked 6th overall on heroic Zor'lok 25m.


Interesting that 2 spots above blatty is a fire mage from today.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Mage
9100
Fire is still a great spec, granted it has a high RNG swing. Consistently it will rank lower on average. Though certainly expect to see a fire mage or two ranking higher on Logs.
Reply Quote
12/05/2012 11:19 AMPosted by Gravitation
Deerde btw I'd drop mana gem, it's only good on fights lasting longer than 9 minutes. Just a min max thing. :) Also get rid of loose mana, not so hot for arcane.


Heh, thanks, I haven't logged in several days, I'm moving on to Rift. Mostly just kibbitzing now so far as WoW goes.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Mage
9100
Oh, sad to see you go :9
Reply Quote
100 Human Mage
14150
Based on results someone posted yesterday, it looks like the DPS is about the same on single target so you can probably choose between the 2 based on encounters. For Elegon, you would probably want to scorch weave during the second phase so you can easily burst down the sparks. For cleave encounters, you will want to clear stacks.
Reply Quote
90 Human Mage
11765
Slatra I think it comes down to play style. Keeping above 80% w/ 6 stack is non-trivial. Hopefully they won't nerf it because it's not as if you hit the same button over and over again and your mana magically remains at 80%+. You have to intelligently place RoP, properly use cooldowns, and weave.

All in all this might have been unintended in the original design but I think they have stumbled on to something really cool and fun.


as long as a majority that like playing arcane find that design fun, it should be fine.

if not a buff to arcane barrage might be in order, to make it a viable spell and not worthless for anything outside of alter time. having the dmg on everything leading up to six stacks get buffed caused barrage to be less effective than it was in 5.05. All depends on Blizzards intent for the spec and how willing they are to bend instead of break.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]