Mages, post-Fire nerf: show us your parses

12/07/2012 01:05 PMPosted by Lhivera
Seebachs: I think the 1.5 multiplier is very problematic from a scaling standpoint. One of the problems Fire Mages complain about is how differently the spec plays at different crit levels. CM greatly exacerbates that problem. A smaller multiplier combined with a flat additive modifier should work better.


The question at hand for this equation is 2 fold - What's easier, revert or redo? and if redo what kind of additive would be okay?

Right at this juncture, I feel that it would be in fire's best interest if they would go ahead and fix the nerf for CM and follow it up for 5.2 with an additive modifier to replace CM's crit equation.

Bottomline is that right now, fire feels neither competitive nor (from a subjective stance) fun, since luck now controls fire more than it has over the last few months. It was just tossed in on a whim with no testing whatsoever.

EDIT: Another suggestion I can make is that they add in some sort of time based passive that allows you to proc your pyroblast! after a given time has passed where you have unsuccessfully been able to gain the Hotstreak Proc as a sort of fail safe to protect fire from its own RNG.
Edited by Seebach on 12/7/2012 3:29 PM PST
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90 Human Mage
10850
Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
@Velayna Not seeing Fire on bottom. Happy where Fire is so far. Many mages trying Arcane and Frost, skewing results of sites like raidbots.


How?! What.. why? Is he serious?
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18065
Right at this juncture, I feel that it would be in fire's best interest if they would go ahead and fix the nerf for CM and follow it up for 5.2 with an additive modifier to replace CM's crit equation.

Bottomline is that right now, fire feels neither competitive nor (from a subjective stance) fun, since luck now controls fire more than it has over the last few months. It was just tossed in on a whim with no testing whatsoever.


I think that is the way to go. It is both baffling and deeply disappointing they handled this with a ham-handed hotfix nerf a couple of days after a patch, and after no testing on the PTR. If there is great concern about CM scaling in the future, try out the additive modifier on the 5.2 PTR.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18065
Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
@Velayna Not seeing Fire on bottom. Happy where Fire is so far. Many mages trying Arcane and Frost, skewing results of sites like raidbots.


How?! What.. why? Is he serious?


No way.

Does he understand that those same sites, the ones with the huge drop off, show *far* more people still playing fire than arcane and frost?
Edited by Taymage on 12/7/2012 4:23 PM PST
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100 Troll Mage
12585
maybe it is the gear. at a 495 ilvl i wasnt really having much of a problem this week... two ranks for fire in HoF, even with a tons of errors... i really could have done so much better. breaking 100k ignites far more often than expected... 145k peaks (no +dmg gimmicks)

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-6t2jq1g7avverjwv/dashboard/?enc=kills
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18065
Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
@JamaicanJasta Look at Arcane's curve leap skyward. Now considered they were not buffed.


He says this just a couple of minutes after saying raidbots is "skewed".
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
Arcane WAS buffed. Tremendously. It's right there in the 5.1 patch notes. It's really breathtaking to post two counterfactual statements like that.

EDIT

What really stood out to me as dismaying for our class balance was even before the big nerfs. It was the fact that right in the 5.1 patch notes remained the statement "Damage has been increased to bring it up to approximately the same level as before" with regards to the Combustion change. "The same level as before..." relative to what? It represented a colossal buff. Of course, that change was a response to the Pyroblast CD that never made it to live. Yet the buff remained. Whoever is balancing mage is not letting the left hand know what the right is doing.
Edited by Mahourai on 12/7/2012 4:36 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Mage
18065
So here we have the lead developer, after telling us to look at the raid damage aggregators in a week, now saying the following:

(1) don't look at the raid aggregator information;
(2) not understanding that the number of parses for fire, even post nerf, was still more than arcane and frost combined;
(3) even though you shouldn't look at aggregator information, look at arcane;
(4) arcane wasn't buffed

What is the explanation for this?

He is literally wrong about everything. He doesn't seem to know Arcane was buffed for god's sake.

Edit: So we are all supposed to sit around politely and calmly, and listen to this person? He has no idea what he is talking about at all. Not only is he bad at basic math, he has no idea what is going on in his game.
Edited by Taymage on 12/7/2012 4:36 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Mage
11505
So here we have the lead developer, after telling us to look at the raid damage aggregators in a week, now saying the following:

(1) don't look at the raid aggregator information;
(2) not understanding that the number of parses for fire, even post nerf, was still more than arcane and frost combined;
(3) even though you shouldn't look at aggregator information, look at arcane;
(4) arcane wasn't buffed

What is the explanation for this?

He is literally wrong about everything. He doesn't seem to know Arcane was buffed for god's sake.

Edit: So we are all supposed to sit around politely and calmly, and listen to this person? He has no idea what he is talking about at all. Not only is he bad at basic math, he has no idea what is going on in his game.


Somebody seriously needs to tweet what you just said to him. I would *love* to hear his excuses for the above.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
11890
12/07/2012 04:35 PMPosted by Taymage
Edit: So we are all supposed to sit around politely and calmly, and listen to this person? He has no idea what he is talking about at all. Not only is he bad at basic math, he has no idea what is going on in his game.


So, I guess I'm looking at Wrath and early Cataclysm again where I am forced into a spec I don't like because "we're not broken" "everything is fine" from a person who didn't even read patch notes that specifically said that arcane was buffed. From a person who asked for parses and now is saying the results are skewed, but they are not skewed to show arcane results. I'm so overly frustrated and irritated right now.
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90 Human Mage
10850
Sadly, with the response he gave on twitter, I am now pigeonholed into Arcane. Good to see the design philosophy is working like it always has. I just wish they would quit claiming a different outlook on specs than what they actually use.
Edited by Ronîn on 12/7/2012 5:00 PM PST
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90 Draenei Mage
7445
So here we have the lead developer, after telling us to look at the raid damage aggregators in a week, now saying the following:

(1) don't look at the raid aggregator information;
(2) not understanding that the number of parses for fire, even post nerf, was still more than arcane and frost combined;
(3) even though you shouldn't look at aggregator information, look at arcane;
(4) arcane wasn't buffed

What is the explanation for this?

He is literally wrong about everything. He doesn't seem to know Arcane was buffed for god's sake.

Edit: So we are all supposed to sit around politely and calmly, and listen to this person? He has no idea what he is talking about at all. Not only is he bad at basic math, he has no idea what is going on in his game.
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100 Human Mage
14695
My jaw is on the floor.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
8200
I'm honestly shocked. At least Lhiv is calling him out on it, maybe he'll pay attention to him.

E: Lhiv is half calling him out. "Blizzard has more complete data". We'll I guess whatever they're seeing is exactly the opposite of what we're seeing.
Edited by Wexler on 12/7/2012 5:29 PM PST
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90 Human Mage
10850
OR they are ok with killing fire.. for now.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
Maybe Blizzard has more complete data that demonstrates that the buff to Arcane in 5.1 doesn't exist.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
11505
I'm starting to think more and more that these nerfs were just a sneaky tactic to get mages to diversify their raiding specs.

What better way to get people to migrate away from the only popular raiding spec than to nerf it into oblivion?

The fact that GC is dodging and filibustering his way through our feedback only adds to my suspicions.
Edited by Kaikou on 12/7/2012 5:42 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
I'm starting to think more and more that these nerfs were just a sneaky tactic to get mages to diversify their raiding specs.

What better way to get people to migrate away from the only popular raiding spec than to nerf it into oblivion?

The fact that GC is dodging and filibustering his way through our feedback only adds to my suspicions.


There is nothing sneaky about that, as Lhiv has repeatedly posted it was probably one of the primary goals of the nerfs.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
11505
I'm starting to think more and more that these nerfs were just a sneaky tactic to get mages to diversify their raiding specs.

What better way to get people to migrate away from the only popular raiding spec than to nerf it into oblivion?

The fact that GC is dodging and filibustering his way through our feedback only adds to my suspicions.


There is nothing sneaky about that, as Lhiv has repeatedly posted it was probably one of the primary goals of the nerfs.


Why can't they just be honest about it though?

"95% of raiding mages were fire (made up number) so we decided to "dethrone" it for awhile to encourage spec diversity"

People would probably get angry, and rightfully so, because that has to be one of the most retarded ways to go about encouraging us to try the other specs, but at least they wouldn't have to play this stupid psychological game with the community.
Edited by Kaikou on 12/7/2012 5:55 PM PST
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