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Also, people are right when they are saying it's less fun to play. Lower numbers is less fun of course. A straight up nerf to fireball or pyroblasts damage would have been a lot better than what happened. It took a bit of luck to line up a good combustion before, now it is even more difficult to get a large crit before you combustion.
Less crit is = less pyros = less pyro crits = longer to get combust up. Sitting on combustion and watching non-crit after non-crit is frustrating. On top of that when you do get a "good" combustion it doesn't pay off the way it did before, dps used to spike to 250-300k now if I see 200k I'm pretty lucky.
I know this has been said 1000 times in the last few days but it really is a less fun spec to play than before and not just because its not destroying the meters.
We have a raiding frost mage that has done excellent dps with us since she joined us. We aren't a top end guild, just progressing through normal 25 mans, but she's always very competitive.
This is last night on the tornado boss in HoF.
If this is what we're looking for, then this will be something we'll be able to tell better a month or two from now. Fire had the advantage of coming into this expansion as the best raid spec for mages Pre-MOP, so it makes sense most people would gravitate towards it going into the expansion.
Forums are only a small subset of the population, and from past experiences in other MMOs I've seen it always seems that those who seek out secondary sources of information (Be it forums or other informational websites) tend to be the most informed, and thus the quickest to switch to something new after a nerf.
Basically as the news spreads that "ZOMG THEY NERFED FIRE" we'll see more people switching to arcane/frost than what we've seen in the first week, whether or not fire is still able to pull it's weight.
Well i don't know how elgeon will help you, but here's my results from pre-5.1 and post-5.1
Now keep in mind Post-buff i jumped 4 item levels, have a new rotation, and i actually lost my 5% raid buff haste. That's what i can show you though. Hope it helps!
Hey Lhiv this is a great idea.
Last night we raided in Terrace (normal) + first half of MSV (heroic), 10 man.
Overall I was top DPS overall except on cleave fights.
Currently running - Arcane spec, stacking mastery, and doing a scorch weaving rotation. This was my first raid so I expect tonight I will bring my dps up even more now that I've gone through logs and have adjustments to make.
Protectors - #1, our guild does not stack the three bosses so no one had a chance to buff meters via cleaving.
Tusolong - #3 dps, I was having a hard time keeping up stacks. With some changes I think I can bring this back up to #1. Multi-dot strategy should bring numbers up in phase 2.
Lei Shi - #1 on overall dps by a significant margin
Stone Guards - #4, to be expected since this was cleave. Switching to a multi-dot & missiles strat will bring this number up significantly.
Feng - #1, was in the lead until shield phase then dropped behind and regained in phase 3+4
Garajal + Sha of fear meters were broken.
On another note I just checked the #1 arcane parse for stoneguards which is actually from yesterday. 200k dps.
I think i went with the wrong strategy on this fight. Instead I should have been NTing all three bosses and then riding the missile spam wave. I'm still working on my multi-dot aoe strat.
Edited by Gravitation on 12/5/2012 3:41 PM PST
Just thought I would throw mine in as well. Terrace, Vaults, and Part of heart of Fear we actually have 4 mages. 2 are still fire, while the others were frost and arcane. All reforged and gemmed per sec and what not. One part of HoF you can see for yourself.
Roughly 3 mages (Elq, Pyro, and me) have the same gear the other is on his way up
Heart of Fear(Note empress is a off as certain mages have to carry the raid and make amber traps).
*As a note arcane and frost players are doing this for the first time since ....a while whereas the fire players have been at these same bosses in the same specs.
bosses 1-5 in MSV as fire, 94% of rank limit on elegon post nerf. Or in other words, i'm a beast and ya can't touch this.
that's from last week. Ranked on gara'jal because I had a good healer, and the buff was retarded.
Edited by Spelmasta on 12/5/2012 4:48 PM PST
What can I say, i'm a sick mage. I actually had 30% at one point but i've since downgraded my gloves to LFR for the 2pc bonus. Also I know it doesn't show it but both my trinkets are upgraded 2/2 now.
Edited by Spelmasta on 12/5/2012 5:03 PM PST
omg u r so strong
Edit: Figured i've spammed this thread enough times so i'll post this here.
The results are similar for 25m, however for heroic modes fire is still up in the top 3. Leads me to believe that gear is having a very large impact as predicted on fire mages post-nerf, which is why it hasn't really hit HM nearly as hard.
Edited by Spelmasta on 12/5/2012 9:25 PM PST
how on earth does your armory say 28% with 7k crit rating? mine says 23% and i have over 10k crit rating. are you buffs (brilliance & molten) showing through?
anyway, logs from last night's raid:
quite comfortable with my dps in relation to the rest of the raid. topped 3 out of 5 fights. the two fights i didnt top, once i died, and the other was sha of fear which is never correct. unless someone starts linking these god mode arcane parses everyone swears upon, ill be staying fire for the time being.
That's intersting lol. Yea, i guess my buffs are showing through, didn't know that could happen.
it used to happen all the time in the armory's early days, but i haven't seen that happen in months (years?)
sorry for derailing, POST YOUR LOGS EVERYONE
90 Human Mage
I wish I had good logs to contribute, but my only kills as frost or arcane are heroic encounters that I killed pre 5.1 in fire once or never before, and in those 2 weeks I got significant gear upgrades (463 dagger to 504 sha touched staff)
Just from experience as fire/frost/arcane on a dummy (hours and hours), fire was more than 10% lower than frost and arcane. Gearing full haste lets you play frost/arcane and switch depending on the fight, which I believe is the best way to go for progression mages right now.
90 Blood Elf Mage
Here are my forays into LFR this week:
I actually did Vaults last night but that log was eaten so I decided to do it again and I'm kind of glad I did. The first half was...interesting to say the least. Feng is really where the difference is noticeable. It's pretty easy to see the arcane mage just got to 6 stacks and spammed Scorch for AM procs but, looking at their armory, they gemmed/reforged for haste and were even using Frost Armor. It actually makes sense if your goal is just to get as many AM procs as possible but I can't really see that lasting as it essentially puts Arcane where Fire was last week. I also don't think Blizzard's vision for Arcane's play style involves spamming a talent spell to no end. There's probably going to be some change in the interaction between Scorch and AM in the near future.
Anyways, back to fire, the numbers weren't bad and, honestly, I didn't fall too far from where I was last week when Combustion was OP. (Oddly enough, my terrace log from last week shows nearly identical DPS for 3 of the 4 fights.) I will say this though: I don't enjoy hitting Combustion now. Lining up pyros with PoM/AT and barely being able to get ignite above 15k without some procs and crits feels bad, like I'm doing something wrong. (And who knows, maybe I am.) Elegon is the only fight where it felt good to hit Combustion and that's simply because of the damage buffs that fight provides.
If fire gets restored back to 5.0.5 - it would be very comparable to arcane now - but people would still majority flock over to fire... arcane suffers a lot from movement, coupled with our lvl 90 talents (movement) makes for a clunky spec to play. I understand blizzard motivation to spread the love between specs, but it's not dmg alone driving people away from arcane and frost.
In other words: Give all 3 spec identical numbers in DPS... fire would still have a huge majority of players playing the spec - pat your self on the back, you made a spec that's free flowing and fun to play, but now I feel punished because I play in a mediocre top 100 guild where dmg does matter a lot in getting the's bosses down and it's not warranted to play fire when the difference is pretty lopsided... trust me I"m still speced fire - I'm a world ranking mage and my dmg was terrible.
Today we raid, and I'm already being told to switch to arcane....thus the choices are mine for being in a high end raiding guild - but you're punishing as you can tell from forums response a large number of people to cater to a small number of people.
Last week MSV Normal
This weeks MSV Normal
I was playing frost in both, but the fire mage actually did better dps in some fights. Might be some gear upgrades he got last week.
Feel free to dig through our logs. I wanted to go through all of HoF tonight as fire, but sat myself after 3 due to being absolutely disgusted with my numbers.
My iLvl is 491. The gear I am wearing now is basically the exact same as I had 2 weeks ago. The changes are the helm and legs, as I got the helm last night as was able to equip 2 pc. Here are the current iLvls of the DPS I raid with. This was their iLvl at raid time tonight. There were a few upgrades handed out over the past 2 weeks for pretty much all of our dps. You can figure a 2-3 iLvl increase tops.
Onakua (he only DPSs some fights, and I am unsure of his iLvl for his dps set - I do believe it is 486 or so)
Every last one of these people above me have ranked numerous times. They're very good at their class. I'm no slouch, but I have never hit the RNG lottery in order to parse as fire. Monday I parsed 3 of 8 fights as arcane, after only playing it in dungeons to 84.
Anywho, here are the logs: I am down on (almost?) every fight. Its good times. Nothing like a huge drop on a fight like wind lord, one where we're not supposed to "be good".
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