r 5 man MOP heroics any easier than CATA

90 Blood Elf Priest
4605
WOTLK 5 man heroics s were probably too easy but CATA's r harder .With PUG's it's very hard to coordinate things. Tanks and DPS'er's must be standing in damage a lot as I'm often spamming my inefficient heals. More one shot deaths as well.

Deaths and wipes r too common and often things collapse with finger pointing and recriminations.

I appreciate blizz wants mechanics to be learned and respected but in these PUG's it's getting frustrating

Is it going to get any - I'm not sure better is the right word - when I start MOP dungeons. I'm near the end of my rope with the rude people I'm seeing in the PUG's lately.
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90 Draenei Paladin
16080
5-mans in MoP are about as difficult as the Hour of Twilight ones in Cataclysm.

Very easy.
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
MoP heroics are a joke for the most part. There a few semi-difficult pulls such as some of the shadow-pan monestary trash. It's not nearly as challenging as cata heroics and was designed that way. I can't remember the last time I wiped in a MoP heroic. It definately helps on some bosses to know what you are doing ahead of time but usually you will prevale reguardless. I was actually disappointed with the decrease in difficulty but I suppose wiping constantly in cata heroics when people failed at manditory mechanics was a bit tiring. You either waited for people to get better in cata or replaced them but sometimes LFD didn't throw you the most agreeable of team members.

Edit: You should find your first dungeons of MoP to be relatively relaxing but still feel the need to pay attention to what's going on. People won't be getting 1 - 2 shot because they failed to do the fight properly if that's what is worrying you.
Edited by Stratis on 12/5/2012 3:32 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
i've had ret paladins, kitty druids, and WW monks tank dungeons. they aren't that hard as long as people don't fail miserably at life.
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89 Human Priest
4605
MOP Heroics seem to have more "mechanics" that HOTs did, so the group needs to know what they're doing.

That being said, if everyone DOES know what they're doing, they're basically a relaxing experience lol.
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100 Tauren Druid
11425
There are no heroics in MoP. The reason there are no level 90 normal-mode dungeons in MoP is because the "heroics" ARE the normal-mode dungeons now.
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
12/05/2012 12:45 PMPosted by Gotnorice
There are no heroics in MoP. The reason there are no level 90 normal-mode dungeons in MoP is because the "heroics" ARE the normal-mode dungeons now.


I think a blue posted about this some where. The heroics could just be renamed normals because they were intended to be lvl 90 normal dungeons. We really don't have heroic 5-mans anymore and I would not compare it to challenge mode, which is something altogether different.
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99 Night Elf Druid
14200
Not to nitpick but they are heroics, they just lack a normal counterpart. The same way that Zul'Gurub and Zul'Aman lack normal versions. Just because there is no "normal" Siege of Niuzao doesn't mean the version that exists isn't heroic.

I also strongly doubt whoever said they had a kitty tanking a heroic, I can certainly rip aggro off an unprepared tank, but there's no way I'm "tanking" anything for longer than SI lasts unless it's vs a boss/mob that does crap for damage (and/or the healer is way overgeared, and even then I'm basically a mana sponge). Obviously YMMV.

[quick edit: obviously for most trash in heroics, outside of special ones I can actually face off with them just fine, given that I can stun them and such; but if it's 2-3+ I'll be going down quick thanks to lack of crit immunity -- also certain mobs like the monks before brother-whats-his-face-in-SM have that OMG-IT-BURNS fire buff that deals extra damage on melee can tear through tanks, much less dps]

Heroics today aren't much more difficult than the Hour of Twilight ones, although even HoTs could be difficult given gear disparity, just like Loken was a !@#$% at the start of Wrath. Most of the issues stem from people not knowing fights (or not paying the slightest bit of attention to their surroundings). For instance the tank leaving Zhu the Uncasked to go hump an add, no one interrupting anything; healers never dispelling (see: Jade Temple "Why's my healing crap?" "...")

In general though Mist heroics are a damn sight more forgiving then cata's were at launch; if you're after that TBC-level difficult seek out Challenge modes.

I'd hate to be attempting Hour of Twilight heroics today with people in blues/greens, I bet they suck.

To the op: speak up, if you're not geared enough to be spamming flash heals and people, tell them to move the hell out of the fire/poison/bad-stuff-omg-it's-killing-them or they will die. Also if you can't keep everyone up, don't. Focus on a few people, for instance the tank and the 1 (hopefully there's at least 1) dps who moves/does the fights correctly; let the idiots die eventually they'll learn.

You can always get around baddies in pugs as well by queuing with a friend, whether they're tanking or not. Even just one good player can mean the difference between a smooth run and hell.
Edited by Zheet on 12/5/2012 8:07 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Priest
ONE
13790
12/05/2012 03:28 AMPosted by Stratis
I was actually disappointed with the decrease in difficulty


I at least expected the heroics of Jade Temple and the like that did have normal mode versions to have new mechanics. Like the puddles on Mari not disappearing or something. That was disappointing to find out it was not the case.
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100 Night Elf Druid
12275
MOP heroic five-mans are currently, in the first tier of gear, about as difficult as WOTLK dungeons were in ICC gear.

That's really, really sad.

12/05/2012 08:05 PMPosted by Zheet
Not to nitpick but they are heroics, they just lack a normal counterpart. The same way that Zul'Gurub and Zul'Aman lack normal versions. Just because there is no "normal" Siege of Niuzao doesn't mean the version that exists isn't heroic.

You're right. The severely low skill level required to complete it is what makes it not heroic.

I don't think most people want Cata difficulty back. But if these dungeons are a joke even when they were first released, just imagine how trivial they'll be when we're in the third tier of gear. All I want is something that tells me 'No, you can't pull all the trash to the boss and AOE it down when you're still in mostly greens." But MOP dungeons let me do just that.

12/05/2012 03:16 AMPosted by Sensorium
Is it going to get any - I'm not sure better is the right word - when I start MOP dungeons. I'm near the end of my rope with the rude people I'm seeing in the PUG's lately.

No, it's not going to get better. Because they're so easy, people expect you to just breeze through them, and respond very poorly to anyone whom they feel is hampering that. If your healer is not able to keep up, venom. If the DPS isn't doing 40k+, venom. If the tank doesn't want to do ridiculous mass pulls, venom. It's extremely toxic and that's only exacerbated by the low skill cap required.
Edited by Kaufman on 12/6/2012 12:24 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6590
12/05/2012 08:05 PMPosted by Zheet
I also strongly doubt whoever said they had a kitty tanking a heroic, I can certainly rip aggro off an unprepared tank, but there's no way I'm "tanking" anything for longer than SI lasts unless it's vs a boss/mob that does crap for damage (and/or the healer is way overgeared, and even then I'm basically a mana sponge). Obviously YMMV.


I should probably clarify he was in kitty gear and ghetto bear tanking in kitty spec. if aggro came off of him, it wasn't hard to heal the other person who was taking damage. imagine bouncing aggro on an add around the group. that's about what it was.
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99 Night Elf Druid
14200
You're right. The severely low skill level required to complete it is what makes it not heroic.

I don't think most people want Cata difficulty back. But if these dungeons are a joke even when they were first released, just imagine how trivial they'll be when we're in the third tier of gear. All I want is something that tells me 'No, you can't pull all the trash to the boss and AOE it down when you're still in mostly greens." But MOP dungeons let me do just that.


Really a joke? Obviously we don't have anything as awesome as Ozruk or prenerf Jin'do the Pug Breaker, but a joke?

What randoms are you getting? Tanks pulling both packs before Flameweaver Koegler -- you know the ones that deal a truckload of damage and then stun? The only time I didn't wipe was when I popped everything to burn them down as fast as possible, but it's gotten to the point where if I see the tank pulling everything I wait after Armsmaster because they will invariably wipe, especially when I'm on alts; although I've found Army of ghouls becomes invaluable there. Speaking of which armsmaster, now that's some hilarity; almost always someone dies you just hope it's not the tank/healer.

Rattlegore, Voss, Xin, Pa'valak (can't ignore the bombs, contrary to certain healers/tanks I've met), Ri'mok/2nd boss chick in Scholo can absolutely destroy anyone caught in front, for some reason I come across a lot of people who can't do the last fight (Zhu) in brewery right, Korloff can still cause issues, or rather the trash right before him; those monks are insane.

Then again it doesn't help that almost no healers in these randoms ever dispel. Jade Temple is probably the worst example with the pull right before Sha of Doubt.

At the end of wrath, heroics were incredibly faceroll (You could pull entire rooms INTO the boss fights); there are no 90 heroics that are that easy unless you're super overgeared. I'd actually say the current heroics are similar in scope to the ICC 5-mans, nothing quite as pug-breaking as Halls of Reflection to be fair but you come across trash packs that can wipe you (Pit of Saron hill says hi) and boss fights with mechanics you can't entirely ignore.

If you really want a challenge, again, there are always challenge modes, consequently they also offer more valor.

Of course you have a point -- they're not a challenge if you're in 463+ gear, that's kind of the point (I would think). There's no reason that when your geared heroics should be super difficult. I really don't want to be looking at TBC-level heroics-so-hard-even-those-in-raid-gear-have-trouble-with-them, but that's just me. But if you go in with greens/quest blues you're not ignoring mechanics or facerolling anything. Today I can basically stand in the orbs from Shado-Pan (Taran's fight) but when I was a fresh 90, the damage was actually too much.

Obviously YMMV, you might just be some super elite player that the rest of us can't compare to <3

12/06/2012 04:18 AMPosted by Keirisonis
I should probably clarify he was in kitty gear and ghetto bear tanking in kitty spec. if aggro came off of him, it wasn't hard to heal the other person who was taking damage. imagine bouncing aggro on an add around the group. that's about what it was.


Fair enough; usually we kitties stack mastery which works for bears too, and with hit/exp capped (for heroics at least) you usually have decent rage incoming to be alright; though I'd still rather be using a crit-set rather than agi/mastery since agility does so little [compared to crit] for bears now :\
Edited by Zheet on 12/6/2012 9:22 AM PST
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