Will the Siege of Orgrimmar end the war?

1 Blood Elf Rogue
0
12/06/2012 02:58 PMPosted by Searik
I always thought Garrosh's corruption that blizzard was talking about was Sha related for obvious reasons, but having it be related to the burning legion would be a great way to ease into the next expansion


inb4 Malkorok is Detheroc in disguise.
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90 Troll Hunter
12970
While Zul'jin's death was poorly handled... it was the Zul'Aman trailer that made him cool in the first place. In Warcraft II, he was the same as a normal axethrower except that he had +1 range and +1 sight. He had a unique portrait but a generic voice. He appeared in only a single, short mission, early in the first orc campaign, and he was never mentioned again afterwards.

It wasn't just that, though, there were a lot of Vanilla quests in Revantusk Village talking about how Zul'jin would return and lead them to glory once more.

In fact... They're still there...
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90 Human Warrior
13525
Somehow I think they don't know Zul'Jin is kinda...well dead but considering how that one priest guy in Mogu'Shan Vaults isn't...gone for good..perhaps Zul'Jin isn't either. Still... I really hope my theory about the Zandalari and the Thunder King is true.
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90 Troll Shaman
5420
12/06/2012 02:34 PMPosted by Kynrind
Wait. Thrall was dissing Forest trolls?

In the very first mission in WC3, yeah.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Chasing_Visions#Throughout_the_mission

"Forest trolls! I still can't believe they were ever a part of the Horde."
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90 Undead Rogue
0
12/05/2012 06:15 PMPosted by Arbiter
Northern Lordaeron and Gilneas are still the elephants in the room when considering ending the war.


I'm under the impression that the Alliance is in full control of Gilneas and even though the Forsaken who cling to their living memories despise Gilneas I'm under the impression that Sylvanas didn't want anything to do with it in the first place.

On the other hand....

The Forsaken fight for Lordaeron is a can of worms I'm not in the mood to open.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11450
12/06/2012 03:27 PMPosted by Kellick
Wait. Thrall was dissing Forest trolls?

In the very first mission in WC3, yeah.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Chasing_Visions#Throughout_the_mission

"Forest trolls! I still can't believe they were ever a part of the Horde."


*Stares at the Forsaken*
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90 Human Mage
13505
Yeah curse them Forsaken. The Horde could of had FOREST TROLLS. NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

:P
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90 Undead Rogue
0
12/06/2012 04:45 PMPosted by Valius
Yeah curse them Forsaken.


Funny you should mention that.
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1 Blood Elf Rogue
0
12/06/2012 03:14 PMPosted by Lorthuron
considering how that one priest guy in Mogu'Shan Vaults isn't...gone for good..perhaps Zul'Jin isn't either.


This is a frustrating dichotomy I've been trying to come to grips with with Blizzard.

On the one hand, having villains that stick around feels silly. You get a 'why don't we kill them' mentality.. and Blizzard trends their villains away from misguided and more towards omnicidally insane the longer they remain a villain.

On the other than, it gets really frustrating when some of their most compelling 'bad guys' are the ones who are killed off (or pushed into 'omnicidally insane', then killed off) so rapidly after establishing themselves in WoW.
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90 Troll Shaman
5420
12/06/2012 04:43 PMPosted by Noitora

In the very first mission in WC3, yeah.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Chasing_Visions#Throughout_the_mission

"Forest trolls! I still can't believe they were ever a part of the Horde."


*Stares at the Forsaken*

I'm well aware of how asinine that statement sounds (both in its context and in relationship with subsequent developments). I'm just pointing it out.
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1 Blood Elf Rogue
0
12/06/2012 05:15 PMPosted by Kellick
I'm well aware of how asinine that statement sounds (both in its context and in relationship with subsequent developments). I'm just pointing it out.

I've been saying this for months now: Thrall is a horrible, horrible, horrible person.
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90 Human Mage
16055
I'm well aware of how asinine that statement sounds (both in its context and in relationship with subsequent developments). I'm just pointing it out.


How exactly is it asinine in its context?
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90 Troll Shaman
5420
12/06/2012 06:02 PMPosted by Gibbons
How exactly is it asinine in its context?

Because the Forest Trolls circa Warcraft 2 were about the closest thing to a "Good" faction on the Horde at the time.

At that point, they'd been painted as an oppressed people banding together to repel the invaders on their land. Savage and violent, absolutely, but nothing compared to many of the Orcs still in Thrall's Horde in Warcraft 3.
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90 Human Warrior
7865
With the 5.1 quests involving Sky-Admiral Rogers suggesting using the Sha against the Horde, I could see things going terribly wrong with that.

I mean, if she and her forces were to become sha-infused monsters, I could see them indiscriminately bombing the hell out of alliance/horde rebel fighters as they march on Garrosh's forces, which in turns means the Alliance/Rebels would need to take her (and the biggest airship in the Alliance fleet, and a lot of Sha-corrupted Alliance soldiers) down.

Essentially the final battle could be between the united Alliance/Horde Rebels (who don't particularly get along for many, many reasons but are willing to deal with it), Garrosh's Horde, and Sha-Roger's army. Bam, now the Alliance kinda looks like douches and it explains why they don't just occupy the city. The Alliance not only lost a lot of soldiers taking down Garrosh, but they had a micro civil war to deal with too, one that cost them a lot. They wouldn't be in the greatest position to control Orgrimmar, especially not if the Legion came right then too.
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89 Undead Warlock
5785
Zul'jin was the first Grey character in Warcraft. He worked with the Horde for the sake of reclaiming the lands that his people lost long ago. He was never stated to be evil, he didn't like eating other trolls judging by the Revantusk's adoration of him.
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86 Tauren Death Knight
14655
12/06/2012 12:08 AMPosted by Dryker
At some point in the ensuing chaos, SOMETHING occurs to overturn the uneasy truce. Maybe the Horde does something absolutely unforgivable, or maybe it's the Alliance. Likely, both will be to blame.
Given the track record, it's always gonna be the Horde that dun goofs in this regard.
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1 Undead Monk
0
But again, Shimaala - nothing will be blamed on the Horde. It'll all be blamed on Garrosh.

In essence, the Horde gets away scott-free and thus the Alliance isn't allowed to demand any concessions or terms - because Thrall's such a good guy. Same with Baine and Vol'jin - it's funny how they are perfectly fine murdering Alliance soldiers, but when Garrosh pissed off their own people, that's when they leaped into action.
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90 Troll Shaman
5420
12/07/2012 05:49 AMPosted by Quirn
it's funny how they are perfectly fine murdering Alliance soldiers, but when Garrosh pissed off their own people, that's when they leaped into action.

Which is why they were plotting against him even before they started fighting the Alliance as soon as he expressed any desire towards war, right?

Keep not letting the facts bog down your rhetoric and tripe.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7805
A peace process would not be easy folks. Many horde Factions have legitimate problems with the alliance.

Tauren- Alliance strip mining the southern barrens, destruction of Turajo, besieged Mulgore, harboring the Grimtotem Tribe.

Blood Elves- Left them for dead for five years and threw all of the troops that the Blood Elves set to help in the 3rd war in jail.

Forsaken- Alliance refuses to recognize the Forsaken's claims to the lands that they literally died for.

Trolls- Were hunted to near extinction by humans prior to the coming of the Horde.

Thats a lot of bad blood to overcome. Thankfully Baine and Lor'themar seem to be willing to let the past lie.
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Which is why they were plotting against him even before they started fighting the Alliance as soon as he expressed any desire towards war, right?

Keep not letting the facts bog down your rhetoric and tripe.


"They" appears to be limited to a small handful of dissenters. It has been pretty clear in Novels and Comics that most of the Horde, especially the Orcs, absolutely love Garrosh and his attitude, to the point of openly grumbling against Thrall. And in Tides of War, most of the Horde citizens of Ogrimmar appeared to be completely genuinely celebrating his glorious victory in Theramore.

In addition, of the people we do know who are unhappy, Vol'jin, Baine, and Sylvanas' arguments were generally not "This is wrong and you are killing innocent people," but "The Alliance will get angry and wipe us out." So the focus continues to be on the Horde and how it affects the Horde.

Which may not be evil in and of itself, but doesn't necessarily paint said characters as altrustic or noble in their dealing with the Alliance either.

So as far as I can tell, There's enough "Rhetoric and Tripe" to go around here.
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