How come no one talks about PvE warlocks here

1 Troll Mage
0
I would think that raiding warlocks would be a huge discussion point for the DD forums, considering the types of threads here. They bring some of the best exclusive utility for a raiding group - especially a 10 man - like demonic portals and healthstones (which I cannot for the life of me understand why it isn't given to some other class as well) which help in a lot of fights. They have some of the strongest personal CDs as well.

Not to mention affliction is probably the strongest DPS spec, and has the best AoE talent in the game. They also happen to be a range class. That's not enough? Well, they can DPS on the move too!

I understand plenty of other classes have simliar forms of a variation of what I said above, but no one really brings what warlocks bring as a whole. They really are the total package in terms of everything PvE wise.
Edited by Larintror on 12/6/2012 2:08 AM PST
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
I do want a warlock in my 10-man group. Health stones are one of the main reasons but thier dps and mobility is a plus. Warlocks have some partners up there at the top of the charters. Affliction isn't the easiest spec to play from what I've heard and it's not so bad to let locks shine occasionally. Afflic could use a small nerf and likely has one on it's way eventually. The fire mages were more noticable with how often mages seem to dominate the meters and how crazy fire mage damage was getting with good RNG due to so much scaling so early in the tier. Some dps have become a bit sour of mages dominating so often. I think a lot of dps are also hoping that thier specs will be buffed a little closer to the top rather then simply dragging all the top outliers down to thier own level.
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Destro needs some love. Otherwise, they'd be perfect in pve.

There is very little warlock discussion pve discussion around here, and I'm not quite sure why. The class doesn't seem to be very vocal or organized compared to, say, mages. The next lock theorycrafter I see around here will be the first.

There isn't a single class guide in the Warlocks Forum. This is flabbergasting. I had to go to dubious third party sources to get info on my own lock.

Warlocks just aren't very numerous. But this will change. They are the best kept secret of this expansion in terms of how much improved they are. Other folks are starting to notice...many mages are starting to notice. And thinking about rerolling to the premier casting class of MoP. When that happens, hopefully you'll see more discussion, because mages are not shy and retiring, and won't be when they switch to purple instead of light blue.

No mage, for example, would tolerate the unacceptable state of pve destro and we would be bombarding this place for buffs to it. We would not be deterred by trolls demanding that we spec affliction or demo. No, by God, 3 awesome specs is a non negotiable demand.
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90 Gnome Warlock
7140
I wouldn't say that the warlock community is less vocal, there is just far fewer of us compared to the Mages and Paladins. I can remember reading all the way through beta about issues with destro and affliction that were never addressed.

And on that issue, a lot of warlocks understand that we usually do need some tuning. It's just a matter of actually fixing our mechanics, which never happens. I don't think most even complain about our dps, just how clunky things have been..well..for quite a long time.
Edited by Ceir on 12/6/2012 5:45 AM PST
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90 Human Warrior
11020
Affliction is probably next on the chopping block IMO. I could easily see a cooldowns beind added to SB:SS or a change to mastery scaling. With the changes in MoP mastery has just become a twin to spell power for affliction which blizzard specifically said they wanted to avoid.
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90 Worgen Druid
14435
Warlocks are kind of in this sneaky position, they're very close to the top, but fire was even more so that all the attention was thrown towards it. Generally, warlocks have always had a low population too.
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90 Human Warlock
17825
I could easily see a cooldowns beind added to SB:SS or a change to mastery scaling.

Ugh.... I could live with a nerf to mastery scaling probably, but adding a CD to SB:SS would be like telling me I can only play my warlock on Boss Fights. It would utterly destroy afflictions ability to be at all competative in challenge modes and just a huge QOL issue in general.. Aff's dots have become far too watered down to still justify a 5sec application window on each target... they hit like DK dots now, and much like DK dots, exist primarily to ramp up it's main attack (malefic Grasp)
Edited by Thanatosia on 12/6/2012 7:51 AM PST
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MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Human Mage
10015
I went into MoP beta expecting to main one of my Warlocks come release. I came out more in love with the playstyles of my Mages than ever, and vaguely put off by the feel of all three 'lock specs. It's not that I feel they evolved badly, I just don't find that they suit me.
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100 Orc Warlock
18440
The next lock theorycrafter I see around here will be the first.

There isn't a single class guide in the Warlocks Forum. This is flabbergasting. I had to go to dubious third party sources to get info on my own lock.


Fallensaint actually has done a very in depth guide to the warlock class as a whole and all three specs. It's been reported for a sticky about 5 million times.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6490539814

Zakalwe on elistist jerks is the one who does the warlock component of simulationcraft. He's very good about researching and implementing it into the simulation. He just never posts on the blizzard forums.

So warlock theorycrafters do exist. They are just not as vocal as say Lhivera. And for some reason the warlock forums don't ever get stickies.
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That is a great guide, thanks. Why on earth hasn't it been stickied?
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12/06/2012 07:59 AMPosted by Lhivera
I went into MoP beta expecting to main one of my Warlocks come release. I came out more in love with the playstyles of my Mages than ever, and vaguely put off by the feel of all three 'lock specs. It's not that I feel they evolved badly, I just don't find that they suit me.


Yes, but, you are insane Lhiv. You are in the extreme minority of mages who like the level 90 talents.

Whereas I see the lock revamp as the future...for mages as well. This is how it should be done.
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90 Worgen Warlock
4915
Because people find warlocks distasteful, and even the gm's rarely venture down to where the warlocks hang out. Personally I like it that way. we don't want all your simpering fools learning the dark arts without a bit 'o' pain.
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90 Undead Warlock
6970
Well, um, there aren't that many of us left, you know. The class suffered declines throughout wotlk AND cata. Someone wrote several articles about it, google for "decline and fall of warlocks". Isn't that locks aren't competitive, but for lower effort spent, you get the same amount back from other classes. Think of it as K dps per button presses, and the lock ratio is not attractive compared to the other classes. I mean, as arcane you spam two buttons still, right? As ret you still mash whatever comes off of cooldown, right?

The playerbase got the memo that locks were more trouble than they're relatively worth and re-rolled.

They've done a fair amount of work redesigning the class but a lot of people who used to play them still have bad memories. And are comfortable with their re-roll now.

I am perceiving an uptick in the number of people in the lower dungeons leveling locks though. At the start of Pandaland it was all huntards, now it's all locks. You could say it's the FOTMers who want to get easy BG honor, and you probably wouldn't be too wrong, but it may be word on the street is finally spreading that locks aren't the badly designed clunkers that they used to be either...
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100 Orc Warlock
15115
I'd say it is because we PVE Warlocks are generally very content and thus less likely to post in the damage dealing thread.
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Missdotz, you may not believe this, but arcane is the hardest spec to play of the 3 and with Rune of Power thrown in it's like sticking hot needles in your eyeballs. It's probably impossible at this point to defeat this entire mythology about arcane as a two button spec, but having tried all 3 mage and all 3 lock specs, that's my conclusion.

Arcane is only relatively simple on stand still fights. The least amount of movement and it rapidly becomes almost unmanageable.

No lock spec comes even close to it on the annoyance meter, although tracking dot timers as affliction is somewhat irritating. Demo and destro are a joy to play in comparison, imo. (Destro is frankly easier to play than any mage spec. You just need to macro things up for Fire and Brimstone, that's the tricky part. Fire would probably be easier than destro if it wasn't for level 90 talents, but include that, and it's still harder.)

I do not think locks appreciate how well crafted their class is. This is the best it has ever been for locks, the revamp was amazing.
Edited by Deerde on 12/6/2012 11:10 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
I would think that raiding warlocks would be a huge discussion point for the DD forums, considering the types of threads here. They bring some of the best exclusive utility for a raiding group - especially a 10 man - like demonic portals and healthstones (which I cannot for the life of me understand why it isn't given to some other class as well) which help in a lot of fights. They have some of the strongest personal CDs as well.

Not to mention affliction is probably the strongest DPS spec, and has the best AoE talent in the game. They also happen to be a range class. That's not enough? Well, they can DPS on the move too!


Because there's not a wall of Affliction parses when you open World of Logs.
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12/06/2012 10:43 AMPosted by Scathbais
I'd say it is because we PVE Warlocks are generally very content and thus less likely to post in the damage dealing thread.


You need to complain more about destro, dammit. It's underpowered.
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90 Undead Warlock
6970

No lock spec comes even close to it on the annoyance meter, although tracking dot timers as affliction is somewhat irritating. Demo and destro are a joy to play in comparison, imo. (Destro is frankly easier to play than any mage spec. You just need to macro things up for Fire and Brimstone, that's the tricky part. Fire would probably be easier than destro if it wasn't for level 90 talents, but include that, and it's still harder.)

I do not think locks appreciate how well crafted their class is. This is the best it has ever been for locks, the revamp was amazing.


No more DotTimer! You only have THREE dots now as aff, and two of them can be refreshed together and the third never clips anymore. You can play aff now without any addons at all these days. It's like they actually listened to what people were saying two years ago. They actually listened. Took them a whole two years to fix the things that people were talking about.

And that's what really soured me on warlocks long ago, so much so that I banished this toon to a foreign server, all alone, never to be played again.

I was sort of expecting cynically when I picked this toon back up again for pandaland that locks would still be a pain to play and that I would get a chance to tear them a new one, but no, they did listen.

I wish demo had more to do than just spam SB until you build up enough fury to do the interesting stuff. I wish destro had the same damage output that aff did, but compared to where locks were in the past, they're decent enough to play these days.

I just picked two classes at random that I remembered had pretty simple rotations. Don't all the cool kids play fire mages these days anyway? The huntard rotation was also pretty simple back then compared to locks, I remember our top hunter boasting he could macro it all to one button. Huntards aren't as simple anymore, I think the devs have done their best to level out the complexity of playing the different classes, that's the perception I get.
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Hunters are a mess. Too many buttons. The class needs a fairly radical simplification. A bazillion different shots is not good design.

The only thing I find attractive about them is their extreme mobility, but from a pure design perspective I think they are about as badly off as mages are, except in different ways.
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90 Undead Warlock
10320
Two reasons.

1. Not many carry overs from last expansion. No matter how many you saw in the arena ladders the class as a whole was least represented. It took a total overhaul to prevent extinction.

2. Combine reason one with a revamp and you have a small knowledge base on Warlocks.
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