The Regent Lord and Garrosh in Mogujia Ruins

Nazgrim is already going a little grim, and Saurfang doesn't seem to be in the picture. I see either Vol'jin or Lolthemar, both of whom are becoming protagonists versus Garrosh. My money is on Vol'jin.

The argument has been made time and time again. Perhaps it will be an orc leader, but honestly the only orc that has been getting any sort of spotlight besides Garrosh and Thrall is Nazgrim, and I don't see a newer character like that taking over. Not when Baine, Vol'jin and even Lolthemar are better developed and known.

Blizz has talked about how they prefer to use elements that can spark memory or recognition by name. Granted, Nazgrim can, but still. I think Lore wise that it'd make more sense to turn over the reins of the Horde to a whole new type of leader. Sadly, it won't likely be female, which is a shame.

Will orcs be happy? Of course not. Should they? Doesn't matter. Thing is, by the end of this expansion, Orcs may have to slink back, and nurse several wounds, many of which is the greatest thing anyone could harm to an orc. Their Pride.


Nazgrim has been with us since vanilla, we're only now just starting to see him develop more and more as a character. The earlier stages of meeting Nazgrim have been short runs in which he's been a quest giver, but he has moved up the military ladder of the Horde. Saurfang? I'm pretty positive he'll be making a return for the Siege of Orgrimmar. I'd be absolutely appalled if they didn't hold true to what he said in Northrend to Hellscream.
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90 Undead Priest
11465
12/06/2012 08:00 AMPosted by Unauk
Saurfang? I'm pretty positive he'll be making a return for the Siege of Orgrimmar. I'd be absolutely appalled if they didn't hold true to what he said in Northrend to Hellscream.
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90 Undead Warlock
5885
True, about Saurfang. However, I dislike the idea that a character like Saurfang get's left out of the entire expansion, the story, the issues and the revolts, shows up during ALL-STAR day to help oust Garrosh, and for some reason he's handed the crown. I mean, say what you like about Blizz's writing, but they aren't THAT bad or lazy. Then again, who knows. Perhaps they are. I'm holding faith though.

As for Nazgrim, I didn't know that. I've played since Vanilla, but never recalled seeing him until Cataclysm. Oh well, glad they're given him some advancements, but he doesn't strike me as being a Warchief. He's great at underwater fighting, charging headlong into battle and storming beaches. But what does he do? What are his thoughts? His opinions? His goals or such. Even Lolthemar is getting that depth, even if it's late. Nazgrim doesn't strike me as being much of a character other then sheer awesome fighting.
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12/06/2012 08:08 AMPosted by Sals
True, about Saurfang. However, I dislike the idea that a character like Saurfang get's left out of the entire expansion, the story, the issues and the revolts, shows up during ALL-STAR day to help oust Garrosh, and for some reason he's handed the crown. I mean, say what you like about Blizz's writing, but they aren't THAT bad or lazy. Then again, who knows. Perhaps they are. I'm holding faith though.


Thrall.

12/06/2012 08:08 AMPosted by Sals
As for Nazgrim, I didn't know that. I've played since Vanilla, but never recalled seeing him until Cataclysm. Oh well, glad they're given him some advancements, but he doesn't strike me as being a Warchief. He's great at underwater fighting, charging headlong into battle and storming beaches. But what does he do? What are his thoughts? His opinions? His goals or such. Even Lolthemar is getting that depth, even if it's late. Nazgrim doesn't strike me as being much of a character other then sheer awesome fighting.


Like I've said, we've only seen a short bit of Nazgrim's character. Perhaps further along in the storyline we are going to see much more about him. I'm sure the character has some resentment towards Hellscream for Pandaria and losing so many of his men.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
9430
Nazgrim doesn't strike me as being very good to have as an overall leader. High-up in the leader's council and overseeing military forces, sure. But I don't know about warchief, as Sals says.

I admit part of me pulls for Lor'themar because there may be a little bit of schadenfreude where belf-haters are concerned but I know logically that wouldn't happen. Vol'jin is conceivable, though, and even though I doubt Blizz would put in a non-orc, would be cool.

As far as orcs go, I'd love to see Zaela make a reappearance. After all, Garrosh seems to be going down a path not unlike the previous leader of the Dragonmaw (Mor'ghor) so I could see her being pretty grr on that front because she knows where that could lead.
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90 Undead Warlock
5885
Eh, I'm not one to jump on the "Hate Thrall" bandwagon. Do I think he's a lazy character? Ya, sure. Do I dislike his character? Not really. I mean, as I've stated, I'm aware a large portion of the community dislikes the writing choices in Garrosh and Thrall, among others. But remember, both of them still made regular appearances in the expansions. Saurfang stopped being relevant since Wrath. Promise to return or no, I doubt he'll be made Warchief, there's not enough to work with.

Again, mere speculation however.
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Eh, I'm not one to jump on the "Hate Thrall" bandwagon. Do I think he's a lazy character? Ya, sure. Do I dislike his character? Not really. I mean, as I've stated, I'm aware a large portion of the community dislikes the writing choices in Garrosh and Thrall, among others. But remember, both of them still made regular appearances in the expansions. Saurfang stopped being relevant since Wrath. Promise to return or no, I doubt he'll be made Warchief, there's not enough to work with.

Again, mere speculation however.


And really that's all this boils down to is our speculations. I don't want to see Thrall as Warchief again, that's for sure. Man, that'd really bum me out completely.
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90 Undead Warlock
5885
Oh I agree. I think he's had his time and story, and frankly I'm in favor of Vol'jin, due to him being a pretty well written character, a great leader, and it'd alter the aspects of the Horde and it's relations with the Alliance. I'd be in favor of that.

Because it's not really Orcs versus Humans anymore. Neither race can stand on their own.
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I find it kind of funny now that there are people seriously considering Lor'themar for Warchief. A few years back, talk of a Blood elf leading the Horde would have left you with your head on a pike.
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90 Undead Warlock
5885
True, though I'd figure that's more to the lack of character for him. Given that they're really trying to develop Lolthemar, it's more believable for him to take command. It's less likely, I think, but still.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
12895
Nazgrim would be pointless as Warchief. He agrees with Hellscream, is fanatically loyal to him and obeys his vision unquestioningly. There'd be no reason to ever get rid of Hellscream in the first place if we were just going to replace him with someone the exact same.

Lor'themar 2013.
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90 Goblin Priest
9935
I think it's going to be Vol'jin, and should be. He has been around since the beginning of the new Horde, is now working to end Hellscream (whereas Lor'themar is still figuring out that Garrosh is a complete tool), and he has been pretty consistently developed since Cataclysm and the Retaking of the Echo Isles event.

Naz'grim makes me sad. :( He used to leap after a Broken Shaman of the Earthen Ring, following head-first into a whirlpool of death... now he just takes abuse from Garrosh and is 100% in support of him. /le sigh
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90 Tauren Hunter
14090
Lor'themar doesn't even want to become king of Silvermoon yet people are saying they want him as Warchief? No. The Horde is going to need a Warchief that will at least be fueling the fires of war (however little it may be) past this xpac, and it's not going to the one guy who nearly joined the other side.

Lor'themar is a red herring. It'll be someone else.
Edited by Bestiarius on 12/6/2012 12:48 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Warrior
8135
I'm going to push for a Council of some sorts instead of a single figure, mainly cause Vol'jin, Baine and Lo- Lart- Larry, all seem to have a certain degree of leadership built into their characters.

Baine's Example;
"Our people have walked this land for many, many years, and in that time have learned much about the world. Our allies will need to look to us for wisdom and guidance. My father once made a promise to the Horde, to repay a debt we owed them for their service to our race. I, for one, intend to deliver on that promise." Also the short-story; As our Fathers Before Us, if you count it being serious.

Vol'jin's Example; Can be found pretty much anywhere now.

Larry's Example; Well, we'll just have to wait and see but from the judge of things he'd be welcome onto the 'Council', if Blizz is gonna keep up on the writing work.

...But that's just my two cents no need to go parading it about.

Of course it'll never be the same said Horde but it's changing times in Azeroth and like Wrathion said 'If we don't find some sort of common ground or we keep dragging our feet we're gonna get ourselves killed.'
Edited by Lëora on 12/6/2012 1:24 PM PST
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90 Goblin Priest
9935
You know, a council would be *awesome*. It would be amazing if the Horde swung from a dictatorship to a council format. Would definitely make lore interesting!

Not sure if Blizz would do it though. They seem to like the "One to rule them all!" model...
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90 Pandaren Monk
4880
Lor'themar: I WISH GARROSH WOULD TRUST US!

*Goes off to speak with Varian about joining the Alliance.*


Mend those broken wiiiings, and learn to fly agaiiiin.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14435
Update! I got another piece of the story today that you all may or may not find interesting. More spoilers below.

After your receive your cryptic letter from Lor'themar, which asks you to meet him in the Valley of Kings in Kun-Lai, Your friendly Hozen flight attendant, Tak-Tak, has this to say on your trip there:
Tak-Tak says: Ooh, big stuff’s shakin’.
Tak-Tak says: I heard some pretty elfs got slap-slapped up at Mogujia.
Tak-Tak says: Say, wasn’t you there? Did you see it?
Tak-Tak says: The blood elves weren’t prepared to fight the Korune mogu. Lotta blood elves died, but I hear you saved many survivors.
Tak-Tak says: Anyway, big elf leader, Lor’them-something’ ... he’s real mad!
Tak-Tak says: He’s still loyal to your Warchief, but he wants to do things differently.
Tak-Tak says: Garrosh all about strenght. Lor’themar all about strategy.
Tak-Tak says: Even a simple hozen like Tak-Tak can see that!
Tak-Tak says: Oh look, we are here. Later!

When you arrive, Lor'themar says:
Ah, good. You have come.
Again, I apologize for the cryptic note - but Garrosh is increasingly distrustful of us. I do not want this operation disturbed by hasty acton on his part.
Mogu are imperious, arrogant, and powerful - all characteristics that will send Garrosh into a rage when he arrives.
This is why it is critical that we capture and interrogate the leader of these mogu before that happens.

Once you gather three mogu items for the quest and thin their numbers, you return to Lor'themar who says:
Good. There’s quite a bit to pour through here...
I will have the Reliquary investigate these. Surely we can use them to discern more of the secrets of these Korune mogu.

Anyone playing a character that is part of the Reliquary could get some mileage out of that. I think it is also important to note that, at this point, there are NPCs with Lor'themar that are specifically labeled "Farstrider" or "Blood Knight." So, any of you playing a Farstrider or Blood Knight could feasibly be part of this operation if you so desire. Your two companions on these quests are a Blood Knight named Aenea and a Farstrider named Orestes.

But what I found the most interesting is what happens when you go to capture Shan Kien, the Korune mogu leader:

Shan Kien yells: Fools! I control what makes you fight... Fear, anger, doubt... these are MY weapons!
Shan Kien yells: AUGH!

((enter Garrosh who has flung Gorehowl into Shan Kien))

Garrosh Hellscream yells: Pathetic! You and your mogu are nothing to the might of the Horde!
Garrosh Hellscream yells: Now... if you value your life, scum, you’ll tell me what I need to know.
Garrosh Hellscream yells: Where is the Divine Bell?!
Shan Kien says: Ha... <cough>... you young races... so impatient, petulant. You cannot even control yourself... your own rage, your own fear.
Shan Kien says: How could you hope... <cough>... to control the Bell?
Garrosh Hellscream yells: Graaagh!
Garrosh Hellscream says: Fine. You’ve made your choice, mogu. Now, you die...

((enter Fanlyr who teleports Shan Kien out of Garrosh’s reach))

Fanlyr Silverthorn yells: Garrosh! Stay your hand!
Fanlyr Silverthorn says: He is our only way to find the bell. We WILL make him talk. Give us time.
Garrosh Hellscream says: ...Very well. He is yours, Blood Elf.
Garrosh Hellscream says: But, elf...
Garrosh Hellscream says: Disrespect me again, and I’ll have your head on a pike outside the gates of Orgrimmar.

((Garrosh exits))

Fanlyr Silverthorn says: Well.. that was interesting. Let’s go meet with Lor’themar back outside.


Lor'themar's final comments are the following:

We managed to capture our quarry. In truth, though, I am not sure what our next move should be. I will contact the leaders of our allies and see if they have ideas - I don’t know that our arcane talents are going to pry the secrets of our mogu captive.

Alright everyone. Make preparations to take the prisoner back to the Vale. We’ll be handing him over to Hellscream once he’s had some time to cool off.
Edited by Halayn on 12/6/2012 4:35 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14435
Another update. I dunno about you guys, but I love all of this insight into the character of our Horde factions leaders. Today, Baine was added into the mix. You are summoned to the Shrine of Two Moons to meet Baine.

Tak-Tak says: So how did your trup to the Valley of Emperors go, wikket?
Tak-Tak saya: It’s cold up there. And dangerous!
Tak-Tak says: Too many mogu. Only our foolish mountain hozen cousins live up there.
Tak-Tak says: They so ookin’ stupid!
Tak-Tak says: I heard you found somethin’... or someone. You caught one o’ those mogu, didn’t you?
Tak-Tak says: Maybe nasty mogu tell you where to find that bell.
Tak-Tak says: Tak-Tak also hear mogu using ikk juu.
Tak-Tak says: Even foolish hozen know ikk is worse than anything. Don’t eat dook, don’t touch ikk!
Tak-Tak says: You think ookin’ is nasty word? You ain’t ikkin’ know anything.


Once you get there, you see that Garrosh has been busy experimenting on his grunts with the sha, seen here: http://oi46.tinypic.com/2kfqki.jpg

After you knock some sense into them, you get to see this exchange. Don't worry, Lor'themar, you can speak as long as you say what the Warchief approves of. c;

Lor’themar Theron says: Garrosh, do you truly believe the sha can be controlled? Have you seen what it’s done to our men?
Ishi says: Hold your tonge, blood elf! You dare question our Warchief’s judgement?
Garrosh Hellscream says: Calm yourself, Ishi. The Lord Regent may speak his mind.
Garrosh Hellscream says: The sha can be a powerful tool. The mogu may have once harnessed its power unto the Divine Bell, and look at the glorious empire they built in its wake.
Lor’themar Theron says: But their empire fell. Perhaps to the sha, perhaps to the pandaren, or perhaps... to their own pride.
Garrosh Hellscream says: Did the Scourge beat all the courage from your people, blood elf? We are the HORDE. Where there is power, we SEIZE it. My Horde has no place for the weak!
Lor’themar Theron says: As you say... Warchief.


Baine is the only leader I could check for additional dialogue:

An honorable meeting, hunter. I have heard rumblings from my brothers here on Pandaria. Dark rumblings of dissent and worry.

I have come myself to support the Horde’s efforts, but also... to make sure that things don’t get too out of hand.


Things are getting more exciting! More later. :D
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
9150
I hope that before he leaves/dies/flees, we get to see Warchief Garry punch some mogu faces.

I don't like Garrosh, but I *really* don't like mogu.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14435
I hope that before he leaves/dies/flees, we get to see Warchief Garry punch some mogu faces.

I don't like Garrosh, but I *really* don't like mogu.


Yeah I never cared for Garrosh, but I do think that his choice to emulate the mogu/his fascination with them is a sign of just how stupid he really is. I think he has always had good intentions for the orcs, but his methods of achieving them are just plain misguided.
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