Monk dps tier LOL

90 Pandaren Monk
10500
I love how many of the top 10 monks parsing on world of logs are in ilvl 502+ gear and they have chosen that none of their gear will be a tier piece.

Don't believe me? I can site several of the top 100 guilds in the world where a monk using no tier pieces is raiding and pulling great numbers.

Oh and alot of these monks are parsing without even using Fists of Fury...

What does that say about monk tier?
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90 Pandaren Monk
8815
FoF and to a smaller degree the tier bonuses were all noted on the beta and ignored. /Whatcanyado?
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90 Human Monk
10330
GC noted that the monk class is the one that could use the most work. Hopefully, these issues are considered. (Primarily the FoF one)
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90 Pandaren Monk
8815
What leaves a sour taste in my mouth is that every other tier nearly is +damage to core abilities or CD reduction. Seeing as we don't have any real DPS increasing CD's, the latter isn't possible, I'd rather just see our 2pc moved to a +damage and our 4pc maybe moved to a small +damage CD for energizing brew after use.

We don't really need a damage boost but I'd like to see the tier useful so well who knows.
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90 Human Monk
10330
Agreed. While we don't need a damage boost, it wouldn't exactly be game breaking if we got one. Because of that, it'd nice to see the set bonus made worthwhile. It really isn't exciting getting tier pieces, just because I know it is so insignificant.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10500
Yeah dev's went full retard on our tier.

2 set bonus should be something like

Fist of Fury damage is increased by 15%

4 set isnt anything to be proud of either

OR ... here is a thought ... dont put so much $#@%$@#! mastery on our tier pieces.

We can get crit haste, crit exp, crit hit, hit haste, haste exp on non tier gear but you deign to give us crit mastery and expertise mastery on 2 pieces ... which means if any of us knows what is best for our guild ... we should decline all tier tokens until patch 5.2 or everyone else has their 4 pieces.

Even then ... we get 5 seconds of a cd we cant even use in half the fights... and even when we can we sometimes dont... its a 3.5% dps upgrade to even use Fists of Fury AT ALL (and thats assuming you have 2 piece bonus)
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90 Pandaren Monk
13525
12/05/2012 11:02 PMPosted by Chipmonkz
I love how many of the top 10 monks parsing on world of logs are in ilvl 502+ gear and they have chosen that none of their gear will be a tier piece.

wat
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90 Pandaren Monk
10500
Yeah it's an exaggeration ... however, for example, the number one person on imperial vizier which you are currently ranked 18th on is only using 2 pieces of tier ... and theyre the 2 pieces that are actually have great stats.

On that fight he used FoF 8 times when he should have been able to use it 17 times without tier 2 set bonus and 22 times with the tier bonus give or take a couple.

So what is the dps benefit his 2 set? Approximately a 0 dps gain. You can claim fight mechanics if you like ... but there are many fights that dont allow using it on cd and it isnt even a dps increase to use it on cd because you need to make sure you dont overcap.

Yes I made a lie to try and prove a point ... but the argument is still valid.
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90 Pandaren Monk
13525
This is one of those moments where I don't disagree with you on the power of our tier, but at the same time you are putting way too much stock into parsing and not wearing tier.

Don't forget that tier is kind of difficult to get a hold of at the moment, the only reason I even have 4 piece is because prot has been rained down onto my guild, and we tend to gear dps over healers.

12/06/2012 06:12 PMPosted by Chipmonkz
Yes I made a lie to try and prove a point ... but the argument is still valid.

If you need to lie to prove the point, then there probably isn't very much of a point to prove is there?
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90 Human Monk
5685
Secondary stats for WW in general are a wash.

- Haste's energy regen benefits are largely eclipsed by ascension. If you would have had the energy to keep using abilities without haste, then its only buffing auto-attack.

- Mastery should be a passive somewhere in the 56-80 gap where WW get no new skills. Still not a good idea to totally dump combo-breaker, as that would leave one empty GCD between every jab-kick at around 15% haste.

- Crit is a "last resort" choice. Its generally the worst stat for classes who don't have any procs related to crit, and its only good if the other two are bad.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8815
Really hoping 5.2 brings a FoF and mastery change. A second of off-time with chi and its a pain to be caught up again without capping, forget using FoF.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10500

If you need to lie to prove the point, then there probably isn't very much of a point to prove is there?


Forget my lie... i know you said not to take stock in parses so much (and to a point I would take your side on that)

Lets take a fight where you aren't shafted by moving mechanics completely... garajal the spiritbinder.

On the top parse the monk uses 9 FoF when his 2 set allows him to use 12 FoF for the fight duration ... lets assume the mechanics actually are what makes him lose the 3 FoF.

If he didn't have the 2 piece he would have been able to do 10 FoF for the fight's duration and 7 FoF if we take into account that 3 FoF for mechanics interruption.

That's an extra 2 FoF for the whole fight which is approximately 424,651 damage given his average hit and crit tally.

424,651 damage is a 1.378% increase in your dps in some of the best conditions you can hope for. LACKLUSTER

Ret pallies 2 set and 4 set are nuts ... but even some of the other classes that have weak set bonuses make our 2 set look like absolute trash

12/06/2012 08:54 PMPosted by Kallìk
Really hoping 5.2 brings a FoF and mastery change. A second of off-time with chi and its a pain to be caught up again without capping, forget using FoF.


I just want a set bonus that makes me remotely excited to get my tier.

This is literally the first tier where I am asking my guildmates to take their 4 set and give me all the off pieces first.

All this while ret pallies are crapping their pants just looking at their tier in an item database.
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90 Goblin Warlock
0
Not the first spec to ignore tier. Granted I think this hasn't been since WotLK, but there were plenty of occasions that this happened.

Spec has plenty of issues, but let's not paint this as a first in terms of the tier.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10205
I love how many of the top 10 monks parsing on world of logs are in ilvl 502+ gear and they have chosen that none of their gear will be a tier piece.

Don't believe me? I can site several of the top 100 guilds in the world where a monk using no tier pieces is raiding and pulling great numbers.

Oh and alot of these monks are parsing without even using Fists of Fury...

What does that say about monk tier?


Well, now they are bad monks. Because once you hit about 6k haste, and you aren't gearing crit and prioritizing FoF with 2pc, you are failing. FoF is hands down our hardest hitting ability at ~495ilvl with 2pc, and crit stacked.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10205
Secondary stats for WW in general are a wash.

- Haste's energy regen benefits are largely eclipsed by ascension. If you would have had the energy to keep using abilities without haste, then its only buffing auto-attack.

- Mastery should be a passive somewhere in the 56-80 gap where WW get no new skills. Still not a good idea to totally dump combo-breaker, as that would leave one empty GCD between every jab-kick at around 15% haste.

- Crit is a "last resort" choice. Its generally the worst stat for classes who don't have any procs related to crit, and its only good if the other two are bad.


Crit is now the #1 stat past haste after a certain breakpoint. Bad monk.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
13975
Secondary stats for WW in general are a wash.

- Haste's energy regen benefits are largely eclipsed by ascension. If you would have had the energy to keep using abilities without haste, then its only buffing auto-attack.

- Mastery should be a passive somewhere in the 56-80 gap where WW get no new skills. Still not a good idea to totally dump combo-breaker, as that would leave one empty GCD between every jab-kick at around 15% haste.

- Crit is a "last resort" choice. Its generally the worst stat for classes who don't have any procs related to crit, and its only good if the other two are bad.


Crit is now the #1 stat past haste after a certain breakpoint. Bad monk.


That doesn't make it not a terrible stat, the dps gain per point is still low.

12/07/2012 06:57 AMPosted by Drayjin
Well, now they are bad monks. Because once you hit about 6k haste, and you aren't gearing crit and prioritizing FoF with 2pc, you are failing. FoF is hands down our hardest hitting ability at ~495ilvl with 2pc, and crit stacked.


Hardest hitting != high dps inherently. Not that it even is that looking at parses, it's still 5% of a WW's dps when used best and still not reaching RSK's numbers.
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-0e4glmcpxjwtlqfg/details/4/?s=1722&e=1999
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90 Pandaren Monk
10500

Well, now they are bad monks. Because once you hit about 6k haste, and you aren't gearing crit and prioritizing FoF with 2pc, you are failing. FoF is hands down our hardest hitting ability at ~495ilvl with 2pc, and crit stacked.


Yes it is ... and good luck using it so often that you get even half the benefit of the 2 piece. There isn't exactly a laundry list of fights where you can. the set bonus is MEH and that's all there is to it.

The real problem is that we don't actually need a pve buff ... but the set bonus mediocrity bothers the hell out of me
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90 Pandaren Monk
10205

Well, now they are bad monks. Because once you hit about 6k haste, and you aren't gearing crit and prioritizing FoF with 2pc, you are failing. FoF is hands down our hardest hitting ability at ~495ilvl with 2pc, and crit stacked.


Yes it is ... and good luck using it so often that you get even half the benefit of the 2 piece. There isn't exactly a laundry list of fights where you can. the set bonus is MEH and that's all there is to it.

The real problem is that we don't actually need a pve buff ... but the set bonus mediocrity bothers the hell out of me


I never said it was great, and if you check my post history previous to the FoF bug fix, I even stated as much. In fact, I've supplied quite a bit of ideas towards improving WW. I too also am upset with the fact that the 2pc isnt' a flat damage increase like every other class that just gets % increase on a key rotational ability. I would have been much more excited to see FoF get 30% increased damage for his 2pc, and then see the 4pc be a utility ability like EB making RSK have no CD while active. Those would have been great. Sadly, that's not the case. You should look more towards the next 2 months for 5.2 and those upcoming set bonuses.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10500
Yeah I am complaining now so dev's realize how unhappy I am and don't do it again ... hopefully.

If this is gonna happen to us ... I would rather it happen now than in the final tier.
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1 Human Rogue
0
12/06/2012 05:50 PMPosted by Chipmonkz
We can get crit haste, crit exp, crit hit, hit haste, haste exp on non tier gear but you deign to give us crit mastery and expertise mastery on 2 pieces ... which means if any of us knows what is best for our guild ... we should decline all tier tokens until patch 5.2 or everyone else has their 4 pieces.


To be fair, all of the leather gear this tier looks to be itemized for ferals. Pretty much every peice of agi leather gear has either crit or mastery on it, and even most of the rings / necks do as well. It's very distressing.

The same goes for monk and rogue tier sets, ironicly. =/ It's also itemized for ferals by the looks of things.
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