A Few Questions on Blood DKs

90 Blood Elf Death Knight
2080
Ok so I have read over numerous guides but still a bit confused on a few things. As I am new to the DK Tank I would like some advice from seasoned Blood Tanks. I have primarily played healers in the past and a Pally Tank which I did not enjoy that much I am enjoying the Blood Spec far more.

So lets get to the nitty gritty.b

1) What balance between Dodge and Parry should I aim for is there a soft cap or should I stack it and just mastery?

2)Professions,I have been looking at JC and Mining currently down the road I was thinking either eningeering or BS in replace of Mining. Does Engineering even provide much of use for a Tank that would trump BS?

3: Is Hit/Exp a huge concern for DK tanks as I have seen alot of people are favoring mastery should I look at Exp/Hit in gear or just go with the Dodge Parry and Mastery?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Ukina
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90 Draenei Death Knight
15410
Ok so I have read over numerous guides but still a bit confused on a few things. As I am new to the DK Tank I would like some advice from seasoned Blood Tanks. I have primarily played healers in the past and a Pally Tank which I did not enjoy that much I am enjoying the Blood Spec far more.

So lets get to the nitty gritty.b

1) What balance between Dodge and Parry should I aim for is there a soft cap or should I stack it and just mastery?

2)Professions,I have been looking at JC and Mining currently down the road I was thinking either eningeering or BS in replace of Mining. Does Engineering even provide much of use for a Tank that would trump BS?

3: Is Hit/Exp a huge concern for DK tanks as I have seen alot of people are favoring mastery should I look at Exp/Hit in gear or just go with the Dodge Parry and Mastery?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Ukina


Okay

1: The goal is to balance the diminishing returns so you are getting the most out of your avoidance. So for example If your gear is dodge heavy there is a chance that your Dodge Rating is decaying faster than your parry and while it's only small fractions of a % it's still a loss to if you kept them both in check.

Reniat posted macros you can use in the game to tell you the amount of parry you should have to match your current dodge. I wager it's not perfect either but it's a good base line. Here is the one with using Swordshattering

/run d=GetDodgeChance() n=3.22 if UnitRace("player")=="Gnome" then n=n-.01 end p=235.5*d/65.631440-((235.5/65.631440)*5.01-n)+4 DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Ideal parry for current dodge: "..string.format("%.2f",p))

2: Engineering isn't bad but at least as a tank I'd think direct passives is more ideal and since mastery is our bread and butter? JC/BS is the most ideal.

3: Once your survival is high enough with Mastery & mitigation and even your health is high enough for the spell damage? Then all you can help to improve is how quickly you help to kill things. That is when Hit/Expertise comes to play. Short hand is if the healers don't have a problem keeping you alive why not help to improve your dps. When they made Death Strike heal regardless the use of Hit/Expertise is to a point just a ease of life.

I hope this helped.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
2080
It Did Tor greatly gave it a clearer picture on what I need and the professions I was thinking that JC/BS would be ideal but that tinker from engineering and stuff looked teasingly good but overall it looks as if stacking the mastery in the extra sockets will be more ideal. Appreciate the information and input. I will def look into the macro you posted.

Thanks again.
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90 Human Death Knight
14725
12/06/2012 09:35 AMPosted by Tor
2: Engineering isn't bad but at least as a tank I'd think direct passives is more ideal and since mastery is our bread and butter? JC/BS is the most ideal.


I disagree, while JC is the only other proffession that can give mastery the amount it gives for secondary is actually less then it should be, it doesn't follow the double secondary stat rule that normal gems do, currently our top profs are LW/BS, but it's just nitpicking on my part, at the end of the day tailoring/herb/skinning are the only real bad choices, anything else is perfectly viable.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
15410
2: Engineering isn't bad but at least as a tank I'd think direct passives is more ideal and since mastery is our bread and butter? JC/BS is the most ideal.


I disagree, while JC is the only other proffession that can give mastery the amount it gives for secondary is actually less then it should be, it doesn't follow the double secondary stat rule that normal gems do, currently our top profs are LW/BS, but it's just nitpicking on my part, at the end of the day tailoring/herb/skinning are the only real bad choices, anything else is perfectly viable.


Incorrect. Blacksmithing and JC both grant mastery. You think Leather working just gives the amount of stam as if you were JC or BS. Generally Blood Tanks that focus on stam are only tanking heroic content and if gearing up are just more of a mana sponge by ignoring mastery.

edited to further point out

The majority of professions grant stam and only stam. Mastery is what DK's like. So hence the JC/BS. JC is limited by the gems it has available. Blacksmith is limited by the normal gems that exist which includes fractured. So really they could just do like I tend to and put their special gems in the BS Sockets. Both are granting the same benefit and neither of them are stam for me. LW'n would be stam to bracer and I'd rather do 170 mastery. The stam I'd get from LW'n would also be equal to two solid gems or enchanting's tanking benefits to rings. JC gems were also changed to just 2 to normalize them to other professions.
Edited by Tor on 12/6/2012 11:04 AM PST
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90 Orc Death Knight
8835
Mining is a PoS and I highly recommended avoiding it for both gold-making purposes and stat bonus purposes.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
15410
12/06/2012 11:16 AMPosted by Zionic
Mining is a PoS and I highly recommended avoiding it for both gold-making purposes and stat bonus purposes.


Yes and no. At least as a tank Mining gives the same amount of stam as LW'ing & enchanting.
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100 Draenei Death Knight
12380
12/06/2012 11:56 AMPosted by Tor
Mining is a PoS and I highly recommended avoiding it for both gold-making purposes and stat bonus purposes.


Yes and no. At least as a tank Mining gives the same amount of stam as LW'ing & enchanting.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=124553

750 Stamina is more than 480. 750 Stamina also sadly outweighs the 480 extra Mastery we'd get from JC + wrist Mastery enchant, so Leatherworking + BS is indeed the best bet.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
15410


Yes and no. At least as a tank Mining gives the same amount of stam as LW'ing & enchanting.
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=124553

750 Stamina is more than 480. 750 Stamina also sadly outweighs the 480 extra Mastery we'd get from JC + wrist Mastery enchant, so Leatherworking + BS is indeed the best bet.


BS gets the same amount of mastery gain as a JC does.

BS = 2x320 to a total 640 more mastery. JC gets 2x480 to a total 960 mastery.

Now if they gem'ed stam instead it would 960 stamina which is exactly double what a BS would get. Now I could be wrong but I think many would think that 960 mastery would out weigh 750 stamina.

BS's other main gain is getting sockets that are prismatic so it does not require meeting a bonus. That can out weigh other options. So JC and BS can pair. The main gain in all this is to be freedom and with the idea they'll eventually respond with a buff for one exclusive spec that focuses mastery.
Edited by Tor on 12/6/2012 12:25 PM PST
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100 Draenei Death Knight
12380
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=124553

750 Stamina is more than 480. 750 Stamina also sadly outweighs the 480 extra Mastery we'd get from JC + wrist Mastery enchant, so Leatherworking + BS is indeed the best bet.


BS gets the same amount of mastery gain as a JC does.

BS = 2x320 to a total 640 more mastery. JC gets 2x480 to a total 960 mastery.

Now if they gem'ed stam instead it would 960 stamina which is exactly double what a BS would get. Now I could be wrong but I think many would think that 960 mastery would out weigh 750 stamina.

BS's other main gain is getting sockets that are prismatic so it does not require meeting a bonus. That can out weigh other options. So JC and BS can pair. The main gain in all this is to be freedom and with the idea they'll eventually respond with a buff for one exclusive spec that focuses mastery.

960 Mastery is more than 750, but you're forgetting that if you DIDN'T have the JC gems you'd still be using the 360 Mastery gems, which would add up to 720. 960 - 720 = 240, and 240 Mastery < 750 Stamina.
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90 Orc Death Knight
tys
9350

960 Mastery is more than 750, but you're forgetting that if you DIDN'T have the JC gems you'd still be using the 360 Mastery gems, which would add up to 720. 960 - 720 = 240, and 240 Mastery < 750 Stamina.


Umm ... fractured sun's radiance has 320 mastery.

So really, +320 mastery.
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90 Human Death Knight
14725
Incorrect. Blacksmithing and JC both grant mastery. You think Leather working just gives the amount of stam as if you were JC or BS. Generally Blood Tanks that focus on stam are only tanking heroic content and if gearing up are just more of a mana sponge by ignoring mastery.

edited to further point out

The majority of professions grant stam and only stam. Mastery is what DK's like. So hence the JC/BS. JC is limited by the gems it has available. Blacksmith is limited by the normal gems that exist which includes fractured. So really they could just do like I tend to and put their special gems in the BS Sockets. Both are granting the same benefit and neither of them are stam for me. LW'n would be stam to bracer and I'd rather do 170 mastery. The stam I'd get from LW'n would also be equal to two solid gems or enchanting's tanking benefits to rings. JC gems were also changed to just 2 to normalize them to other professions.


You're still looking at this wrong, yes mastery is the secondary we prefer, but EH still has priority, especially as you said moving into heroic, right now the way jc gems work you get less mastery then you should with it being a secondary stat, since norm gems are 320 and jc gems are 480, you only end up with 320 mastery insted of the 640 you should have being a secondary stat (blacksmith for example gives us 640), right now lw is giving more stamina then other professions, lw/bs is the best possibly combo.

Feel free to look up blood stat weights, but to put it simply the stamina boost is higher priority then mastery until you have a comfortable EH, but the 750 stamina outweighs the 320 mastery from jc, feel free to take a look at Reniat's sticky guide, has has a stamina vs mastery section you can check out.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
15410
Truthfully I count it as 490 but that is because I'm not sacrificing 170 on the bracer enchant. Mine is the way it is for dps though Strength, strength and more strength and my dk was like since wrath. They have slightly dropped the ball in secondaries but I think it's one of those things they'd have to just look at and the only danger in that scenario is if they also look to see how much LW'er tanks get out of the deal :P
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90 Human Death Knight
8310
1. Your Parry should be roughly twice your Dodge (or a little higher). Here is a macro you can create which will help you.

/run d=GetDodgeChance() n=3.22 if UnitRace("player")=="Gnome" then n=n-.01 end p=235.5*d/65.631440-((235.5/65.631440)*5.01-n)+4 DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Ideal parry for current dodge: "..string.format("%.2f",p))

I also really like using askmrrobot.com for helping with gearing. Some will agrue that it is flawed. But they make adjustments to it all the time, and I believe currently it is in a good state.

2. I am JC/Mining. There are a few combos that you can go for. I did this combo a long time ago and just have never changed it. It might not be the best of the best, but it's damn good.

3. Currently your Death Strike heals and shields you, even if you miss. So there is no reason to put anything into hit/exp. One could argue that Outbreak will never miss, and that your DPS will go up blah blah blah. But Outbreak tends to hit most of the time, and we are Tanks... we care little for our DPS output. Reforge those stats into Dodge/Parry. If they change the way Death Strike works, then this will change for us. Right now, consider it a blessing. :)
Edited by Verdict on 12/6/2012 9:57 PM PST
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90 Draenei Death Knight
15410
To a point the gear is annoying itemization wise. Too many pieces with things like Parry/Hit. It's nice and all but too much of the gear is so parry heavy I'm having a hard time keeping my dodge and parry balanced.
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