pvp heals and survivability for paladins

90 Dwarf Paladin
5110
from what ive seen so far paladins have very very poor heals not to mention all we have for protection is one def buff and 2 bubbles if our heals were just a little better for retadins this would be alot more enjoyible especially when you pop wings everyone swarms you and trys to stun and cc you like a mother !@#$er.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
5505
You're doing something wrong...
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7060
No he isn't. Our heals are terrible.

Well I just looked at his armory and yea.. he IS doing some things wrong as far as THAT is concerned, but regardless, our heals are TERRIBLE. Gear or not.
Edited by Angelista on 12/7/2012 8:18 AM PST
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90 Human Paladin
10090
12/06/2012 03:21 PMPosted by Æmperor
from what ive seen so far paladins have very very poor heals


An insta-cast Flash of Light that costs no Mana via Selfless Healer that doubles-up on allies? That's a pretty strong heal. With Divine Purpose, a near endless proc of full Holy Power Word of Glories? Also, quite strong. Seal of Insight, mixed with Battle Healer? Holy Prism / Light's Hammer / Execution Sentence.

If you're not trying to burst, but are playing defensively until our bursts are ready, you'll discover that our heals are quite phenomenal, and that's not even factoring in things like Lay on Hands (since they don't work in Arenas or RBGs).

12/06/2012 03:21 PMPosted by Æmperor
all we have for protection is one def buff and 2 bubbles


Divine Protection, Divine Shield, Concentration Aura, Hand of Freedom x2, Hand of Protection x2, Emancipate, Pursuit of Justice (to be perpetually faster than any other melee trying to train), et cetera.

12/06/2012 03:21 PMPosted by Æmperor
especially when you pop wings


Going for the kill can generally mean getting swarmed when they see everything is up. My recommendation is to save your bubble for that time. When you burst your trinket / wings / Guardian, they will immediately begin stun-locking you. Bubble for the first couple of hits while you get your Holy Power bar full, and then cancelaura for your big Templar's Verdict / Holy Prism blast. Note that this issue is something most classes face. My HoJ just itches to be used the second I see someone's palette turn red.
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100 Human Paladin
17035
Also bear in mind that if you use DS to break CC when you're starting your burst up, you really won't lose that much DPS because Guardian has such a long rampup time. Pretend like it's PvE and instead of hitting Wings with Guardian, delay it a bit. Sometimes it's even more effective to use them separately.

Personally I prefer Unbreakable Spirit to Clemency, but I also have a second paladin I run with frequently and really like having DP and DS on 30-40s and 2.5-3m timers, respectively.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6645
Funny, I seem to recall GC posting/tweeting that caster hybrid heals were the reason for the nerf because they were spammable with the larger mana pools..
It was to much effort to balances the hybrid classes 1by1 so they blanket nerfed..
Still don't change the fact that although hybrid healing is less, caster hybrids can still spam heals. Melee dps cop it in the A$$, some worse than ret.
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90 Human Paladin
5785
12/07/2012 01:02 PMPosted by Daemonism
caster hybrids can still spam heals


They sure can.

Anyone having a problem with survivability, try gemming for resil.
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90 Pandaren Monk
3045
Wait is this a joke?
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90 Draenei Paladin
13225
pretty sure rets have the highest passive self-hps of any class in the game atm just using seal, let alone wog, instant free 150K+ fol on allies holy prism etc etc
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90 Human Paladin
5675
no our heals are bad.

a) Remember we sacrifice our finisher for a measly 40k heal which warriors get in 4 ticks from 2nd wind.
b) We only get a free instant FOL every 3 judgements. Thats every 18 seconds. This heal on ourselves is crappy. ( this is a talent might I add NOT baseline )
c) Because we have no defensive utility besides bubble. which warlocks have a better one anyway, we get trained quickly. Classes know once our bubble is gone we are useless, and have no other tricks to mitigate imcoming damage. Divine protection is crap because it only lasts a short time. Warriors have defensive stance active permanently, far better than Divine protection.
d) Heals cost lots of mana when we have no HP or selfless healer talent
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90 Draenei Paladin
13225
12/08/2012 12:42 AMPosted by Vathius
) Remember we sacrifice our finisher for a measly 40k heal which warriors get in 4 ticks from 2nd wind.
seal of insight BY ITSELF heals for more than second wind unless you're getting kited like a baddy, and that's up from 100% health, unlike warriors heal which is only active when they're almost dead.

12/08/2012 12:42 AMPosted by Vathius
b) We only get a free instant FOL every 3 judgements. Thats every 18 seconds. This heal on ourselves is crappy. ( this is a talent might I add NOT baseline )
healing my partner for 180k instant, for free seems like an awesome heal. with good kiting double rets will tak a huge advantage with that.

12/08/2012 12:42 AMPosted by Vathius
Because we have no defensive utility besides bubble.
lolwut? if you actually believe that you haven't checked the spellbook in a long time.

quote="73490138407"]and have no other tricks to mitigate incoming damage[/quote]kiting losing spamming flash wog DA HoP DP DS HoJ Rep BL, we have a MASSIVE mitigation toolset.

12/08/2012 12:42 AMPosted by Vathius
defensive stance active permanently
so they get 15% more passive damage reduct than we do with the TV glyph, big whoop. this is nothing to cry nerf over

12/08/2012 12:42 AMPosted by Vathius
d) Heals cost lots of mana when we have no HP or selfless healer talent
2 flashes, then 4 seconds later you can cast another one even without SH because mana regen is effed and flash heals way too much as ret anyway.

our heals are GODLY if you stop tunneling dps for 2 seconds and think.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6645
Sure thing buddy, rets awesome at 1200 but the higher you go the harder it gets because people actually no when and how to counter everything.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6645
Plus our healing really isn't that great.. Buddy..
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90 Draenei Paladin
13225
12/08/2012 03:19 AMPosted by Daemonism
Sure thing buddy, rets awesome at 1200 but the higher you go the harder it gets because people actually no when and how to counter everything.
lol my 1200 is just from capping conquest a few times, but i love how you think it's a sign of my actual skill in pvp

I haven't seriously pvpd since vanilla when I got grand marsh. that being said I still know how to go through a classes abilities and determine "what will work", not that you'd notice or care really since you only do RBG it seems.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7060
Our heals are "godly", Tharna?

REALLY....?

*tries to maintain a straight face and not laugh*
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90 Human Paladin
10305
I've been doing Arena to cap conquest this week and our heals look like trash. With divine purpose procs I strung together 3 consecutive WoGs and...my health bar didn't even move. On a big crit, yeah, the heals are nice, but otherwise they might as well not even exist.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
10220
Our heals are on the low side at the moment. Don't feel like fishing for the blue post, but they already acknowledged that the healing nerf hit some classes a little too hard. I'm hoping they go back and tweak survivability for the specs that need it and leave pvp power as it is. We need something like our cataclysm sacred shield back, with a different name and effect, or something similar. I'd be nice if they lifted the 15% healing debuff and made it for healer specs only, but I doubt they would do that.

How much is Seal of Insight healing par tick in pvp scenarios?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7060
GC said in an interview that the nerf is around 30% not 15%
Edited by Angelista on 12/8/2012 7:01 AM PST
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
10220
12/08/2012 07:01 AMPosted by Angelista
GC said in an interview that the nerf is around 30% not 15%


I was talking about Battle Fatigue, the debuff they added a few weeks after MOP launch, unless it's been altered to 30% up from 15%.

If so that sucks. Our off heals are fine outside of PVP, it's only when we equip PVP gear, get the 15% debuff, and get a mortal strike esque debuff on us (a lot of classes have this) that our heals turn abysmal. In PVP flash of light heals me for like, maybe 30kish. That's like 8% of our life..8% is piss in the wind when a class can take you from 50% to dead in a few GCDs.
Edited by Andhar on 12/8/2012 7:48 AM PST
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