Trinket Burst Damage Adjustments

100 Human Death Knight
15400
A step in the right direction, great to see. Won't fix everything but its a start.
PvP in this game is a bot-ridden, pillar-hugging cheat fest. Lag macros, afk'ers, honor-per-hour farmers, the whole shebang is one giant mess and has been for awhile.

The harder they work at it the worse it gets.

But, by god, they're going to keep trying.
90 Dwarf Shaman
4880
I think you blizz got something wrong point. While on-use trinket is also big problem, true problem is mage which can have kill time in every 30sec with deep regardless of special cds. Mage has icy vein as cd but not really affects to dps in pvp. What really affects to dps is the synergy combination shatter and mastery. You try to make frost mage's dps in the line but those two passives don't work frequently but only with finger of frost in pve but they work very frequently with every ice shool root, deep and frost ring. Imo you need to make some skill for mage to proc more finger of frost in pve and make two passives somewhat dumb.
90 Draenei Paladin
7295
Why not reduce the benefit of pvp power on gear? Most pvpers I've met run with 50% or so. What's the issue with cutting that number in half and then increase sustained damage?

I liked the pvp model in Cataclysm. I'm not sure who was in charge but I'd sure like to see him come back at this point.
Edited by Sariph on 12/6/2012 8:25 PM PST
100 Undead Rogue
7960
PvP in this game is a bot-ridden, pillar-hugging cheat fest. Lag macros, afk'ers, honor-per-hour farmers, the whole shebang is one giant mess and has been for awhile.

The harder they work at it the worse it gets.

But, by god, they're going to keep trying.


Sounds like you should stop running randoms.

Anyways... I think it's funny reading these comments and then reading what this Blue said...

"After reviewing the data and player feedback, we remain concerned that on-demand burst damage remains too high in PvP. After investigation, we determined that the on-use PvP trinkets are a major contributor to extremely high burst output"

It seems like player feedback is saying it's certain specs, not trinkets... Which doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand. I'm not sure what kind of investigations you guys had, but everyone complains about the EXACT same classes doing EXACT same moves with insane damage.
90 Dwarf Shaman
4880
Why not reduce the benefit of pvp power on gear? Most pvpers I've met run with 50% or so. What's the issue with cutting that number in half and then increase sustained damage?

I liked the pvp model in Cataclysm. I'm not sure who was in charge at that time but I'd sure like to see him come back at this point.


That's just what you like.

If nerf power, then pvpgear should get buff of ilevel to compansate against pvegear or pvp gear will be not attractive for pvp once again like before.
90 Human Warrior
10460
Good to see blizz moving in the right direction
90 Human Monk
0
Daxx, this may potentially resolve the problems now, but what's the plan for tier 16 level gear? Jack up passive pvp resil to 60% to counteract the additional damage from stats?
100 Night Elf Druid
7690
After all these nerfs to healing and healers now being soloed in bgs by quite a few classes...and easily dying in 2s....they're still planning to nerf healing again?

Healing is already underpowered imo. One person should not be able to kill a healer, otherwise they're less valuable than a dps. That's already happening, and you want to make it worse? Why even allow healers if you're making them useless in pvp?
90 Draenei Paladin
7295
After all these nerfs to healing and healers now being soloed in bgs by quite a few classes...and easily dying in 2s....they're still planning to nerf healing again?

Healing is already underpowered imo. One person should not be able to kill a healer, otherwise they're less valuable than a dps. That's already happening, and you want to make it worse? Why even allow healers if you're making them useless in pvp?


Maybe I'm missing something but I don't get what you mean. How is it a nerf to healing when healing and burst both go down?
100 Blood Elf Warlock
10285
I don't disagree with this choice.

However, I've spent much conquest both to obtain and to upgrade my trinket. I'm sure many other players have as well.

I'm guessing we're SOL if this change would make other trinkets more attractive for us?


lol that's right. So now you have people spending conquest points to upgrade items and then Blizzard comes around and nerfs them back again. Grats on the completely wasted Conquest points. Thank you come again.


I wouldn't call them "completely wasted Conquest points"

all they are doing is lowering the burst rate... damage remains the same. anyone who has spent points on this trinket isn't going to be worse off because of this change because they most likely would have picked this trinket even post nerf (its still the preferred trinket because it still bursts better then the other trinkets).

This change is defiantly a step in the right direction... you guys wanted blizzard to fix pvp so they are trying to slowly do it... I'm sure pvp will be better then it was before because of this change (just for the record... not saying this change fixes everything... just saying it will help).
100 Tauren Death Knight
10440
times up nicely with my pillar of frost. Works for me :). I'd say this change hurts classes that have the most burst cooldowns up at the same time, namely frost mages and warriors.

Good change
100 Night Elf Hunter
10515
After reviewing the data and player feedback, we remain concerned that on-demand burst damage remains too high in PvP. After investigation, we determined that the on-use PvP trinkets are a major contributor to extremely high burst output. As a consequence, in the near future we will be applying hotfixes to smooth out the damage provided by these PvP trinkets. In the case of the Gladiator's Badges this means cutting the amount of primary stat or PvP Power provided, but also cutting their cooldown in half. For the Kor'kron and SI:7 manuals, the cooldown of those trinkets will remain unchanged, but the amount of stats provided will be reduced and the duration of the buff will be increased. The overall damage provided by these trinkets should not be affected; only the burst they are capable of providing.

For example: The Dreadful Gladiator’s Badge of Victory will shortly provide 2553 Strength once every minute, instead of 5105 Strength every 2 minutes. Please note that due to limitations in hotfix technology, the item tooltips and buffs will still incorrectly display the original stat value of 5105.

These are the trinkets that are currently slated for adjustment:

Dreadful Gladiator's Badge of Conquest
Dreadful Gladiator's Badge of Dominance
Dreadful Gladiator's Badge of Victory
Malevolent Gladiator's Badge of Conquest
Malevolent Gladiator's Badge of Dominance
Malevolent Gladiator's Badge of Victory
SI:7 Operative's Manual
Kor'kron Book of Hurting

We are aware of the possibility that certain PvE trinkets could become more attractive for PvP in the wake of these hotfixes. While that is somewhat unlikely given that adopting those items would represent a significant loss of PvP Power and Resilience, we will nonetheless keep a close eye on the situation and make adjustments to the appropriate items if necessary. It is also possible that it could become too difficult to land reasonably consistent kills in PvP. If that proves to be the case, then we currently plan to increase the effects of the Battle Fatigue healing debuff to compensate, which is an adjustment that we’ve been considering for some time. On the other hand, if burst damage remains too high after these changes, we are prepared to take additional steps as needed.


Draxx, I realize this is going to sound cynical, but that fact that THIS is the change you make is a very, very clear sign the Development team has no idea what the actual problems are.

This could not be more depressing if you all had done it for the purpose of making depressing.
100 Human Paladin
12290
12/06/2012 08:27 PMPosted by Khaleesí
Daxx, this may potentially resolve the problems now, but what's the plan for tier 16 level gear? Jack up passive pvp resil to 60% to counteract the additional damage from stats?


Or they could just actually nail down that sweet spot of healing to health pool to damage ratio. It's actually really close right now, it's just some classes are devastatingly powerful.

I think the idea behind mists was perfect, it just didn't quite get executed well enough. Massively inflate player health pools, make healers actually go OOM and make their heals only able to heal 15-20% of a player's health pool in a heal instead of 40-60%. Tune damage accordingly.
100 Human Paladin
12290
times up nicely with my pillar of frost. Works for me :). I'd say this change hurts classes that have the most burst cooldowns up at the same time, namely frost mages and warriors.

Good change


Not sure you're looking at it correctly. Right now a mage is basically trying to global you once every 30 seconds but realistically more like once every 2 minutes because they need just a touch more damage to push it over the top. Typically you have cooldowns like your PvP trinket to survive that once every 2 minutes. Now the cooldowns won't matchup and mages will be killing you on their second on-use shatter combo when you have no PvP trinket available to use against their still massive burst.

It's a buff to classes with good burst and high control like warriors, spriests, and mages, and a huge nerf to classes who lack control but are compensated with higher burst like DPS shaman, ret paladins, and to a lesser extent DK's. That's my two cents anyway.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
19125
This doesn't adress the Burst problem several classes have.

This is much like the PvP Hybrid healing nerf, it's a blanket nerf to everyone but the main problem is still there.

This will hurt so many classes that relied on long burst cooldowns to land a kill, not everyone can land 90k crits on 2-3 hits in a global, they will still global people, this will do little to prevent the awful situation of PvP right now, just because 2-3 classes can global everyone with burst doesn't mean you must nerf everyone burst.
100 Blood Elf Warlock
10285
Draxx, I realize this is going to sound cynical, but that fact that THIS is the change you make is a very, very clear sign the Development team has no idea what the actual problems are.

This could not be more depressing if you all had done it for the purpose of making depressing.


Ok I'm not attacking you or anything... but I want to hear it stated plainly for once.

In your own opinion... what are the problems you think the playerbase (as a whole... not just yourself) is having with pvp?

and if "burst" is one of those problems... what is the issue with how they have just handled it?

again I'm not trying to be smart or anything... I just want those two questions plainly answered in full.
90 Orc Warrior
13405
Gives mages more burst in deep/bomb opportunities. GG.
90 Human Monk
0
Draxx, I realize this is going to sound cynical, but that fact that THIS is the change you make is a very, very clear sign the Development team has no idea what the actual problems are.

This could not be more depressing if you all had done it for the purpose of making depressing.


Ok I'm not attacking you or anything... but I want to hear it stated plainly for once.

In your own opinion... what are the problems you think the playerbase (as a whole... not just yourself) is having with pvp?

and if "burst" is one of those problems... what is the issue with how they have just handled it?

again I'm not trying to be smart or anything... I just want those two questions plainly answered in full.


Frankly, I can't get past honor grinding the initial set of gear. I guess there are people like me who won't honor grind an initial set, people who will let bots grind an initial set, and then everybody else. Given the popularity of honorbuddy, etc. Maybe the honor grind for gear at the start of each season isn't really working out to be the most fun thing.

But I guess our little people problems wasn't quite what you're asking about.
90 Worgen Druid
3845
Good to hear that this is going to be implemented.

Thank you, Blizzard. Nice to see you guys taking active steps to fix PvP!
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