BUFF MOONKINS

90 Troll Druid
15285
12/11/2012 07:13 PMPosted by Cyous
Cyous loves doing the theorycrafting and has stellar output in pve. He constantly confuses great pve play that very few balance druid players can pull off with us being great in pvp. Several threads have demonstrated this.

Unfortunately, it's the PVE'ers who do all the work and the PVP'ers are the ones complaining. Rather than kick and scream, "I can't play well enough, so it needs to be fixed," learn to game your class mechanics like every other class does. There must be a good reason why Moonkins are viable in Arena and RBGs and Raids and general questing. Learn and find out why.


I do take issue with this statement, it is all well and good to say 'l2p' but if you lack strong mechanics to back up ability you will NOT be as successful as someone who has strong mech.

Making bear bash ranged is a strong mechanic to back up casting abilities, it might reduce the 'skill' of having to run into melee to use a caster CD but the overall effect is less annoyance and more versatility.

I see nothing wrong with looking objectively at abilities to make them both more effective and more flexible. It is not helpful to the spec overall to keep saying everything it fine all the time.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
11620
12/11/2012 08:33 PMPosted by Ishrn
I see nothing wrong with looking objectively at abilities to make them both more effective and more flexible. It is not helpful to the spec overall to keep saying everything it fine all the time.

There's a difference between "fine and viable" and "needs buffs." Flexibility is never a bad thing, but a ranged stun, for example, is unneeded. Cyclone, Bash, Roots, Solar Beam, Nature's Grasp, Displacer Beast/Wild Charge. There's plenty of buttons to press that does not modify damage taken.
Reply Quote
so i have been playing wow for a bout a year and a half i play a druid in cata boomins were fun i got damage out and i could beat some op classes but when MoP cameout we got nefed i cant dps a warrior down past his second wind he kills me before i have my dots on

To buff i think you should buff moonkin form right now moonkin form gives you 10% more damage and 15% damage reduction i think to buff monkins we should increse 15% damage and 20% damage reduction also we could have 3 dots moonfire sunfire and insect swarm i think that moonfire and sun fire could do 50% damge un proced and 100% damage proced and have insect swarm doing 100% all the time this will give us 2 and a half dots when one is proced also this will stac very well with celectial alinment and the 4 pice pvp set bounus.

also i think that we should have more star surge procs or be able to cast starsurge while moving

I am sorry for al typos english is not my first langue


First off I'd like to say that I am, infact, and Moonkin.

In order of how you posted:

Balance druids in Cata were pretty damn boring in MY opinion. I think that the changes made to this spec (adding ACTUAL cooldowns), the removal of insect swarm, and the change to sunfire and crit actually make our spec MORE fun.

Yes, we are low on sims, who cares, it's all about the player. I parse nightly and out dps plenty of "better" specs in my raid.

We don't need a damage modifier, we just need a spirit walker's grace or kil'jaedon's cunning so that once a fight we can move and dps.

If you know your burst rotation inside and out, that should make up for our "poor" single target sustained dps. If you burst 280k at the start of a fight ... 3 minutes later you should still be pulling over 100k, and then your burst is back up and you're back at 130k.

Mages and Warlocks will ALWAYS pull better numbers than every other caster, and for good reason. You don't play a mage or warlock for anything else other than to dps, druids can do anything.

I agree we need a buff, however only a very minute one. Allow us to cast starsurge while moving or grant us a Spirit Walker's grace on an 8 minute cooldown. That would suffice.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
13510
SS:
http://i50.tinypic.com/2zefm2a.png


Then you go to the 2nd platform to see your DPS drop like a b*tch. In Heroic at least... So much movement.

Q______________Q
Edited by Sainius on 12/12/2012 1:26 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
8885
12/11/2012 09:16 PMPosted by Cyous
I see nothing wrong with looking objectively at abilities to make them both more effective and more flexible. It is not helpful to the spec overall to keep saying everything it fine all the time.

There's a difference between "fine and viable" and "needs buffs." Flexibility is never a bad thing, but a ranged stun, for example, is unneeded. Cyclone, Bash, Roots, Solar Beam, Nature's Grasp, Displacer Beast/Wild Charge. There's plenty of buttons to press that does not modify damage taken.


Ok so let's look objectively. You didn't respond to the fact that we need melee hit to ensure Mighty Bash lands in pvp 100% of the time. It's not ranged. The target must be in front of you so it's not as good as Hammer of Justice when you need a peel from a feral or rogue ganking you.

It's lovely you list a whole bunch of spells but without Nature's Swiftness up, it's tough to get a cyclone off. Then, if you use it for that, good LUCK getting a Healing Touch off -- and you will have to try, since our Rejuves just got nerfed.

I'm asking for Mighty Bash to be ranged and to be treated like a spell, like HoJ. Is that too much to ask? Oh wait, I'll just L2Play -- that'll fix everything. /sarc
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
8885
12/11/2012 09:16 PMPosted by Cyous
I see nothing wrong with looking objectively at abilities to make them both more effective and more flexible. It is not helpful to the spec overall to keep saying everything it fine all the time.

There's a difference between "fine and viable" and "needs buffs." Flexibility is never a bad thing, but a ranged stun, for example, is unneeded. Cyclone, Bash, Roots, Solar Beam, Nature's Grasp, Displacer Beast/Wild Charge. There's plenty of buttons to press that does not modify damage taken.


Gonna make one last one statement here -- I take issue that we don't need a ranged stun. Locks/spriests/hunters/mages have em. The world didn't end b/c they do. Why do we always need to be left out?
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
4460
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!
I'm in my resto set and i can demolish a warrior!
Boomkin is crazy at the moment!

Heres what you do,

Typhoon, Wild charge back, cast three of your mushrooms in a line between you and the warrior, Bloom then, reset the fight( Get to full health) get full dots plus starfall, cast starsurge then burst him down with incarnation, natures vigil and it's a win!
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
11620
I'm asking for Mighty Bash to be ranged and to be treated like a spell, like HoJ. Is that too much to ask? Oh wait, I'll just L2Play -- that'll fix everything. /sarc

And how would you rebalance the usage of Mighty Bash on Guardian, Feral and Resto?

Mighty Bash in MOP is infinitely easier to use than Moonkin Bear Bash of previous expansions.

Gonna make one last one statement here -- I take issue that we don't need a ranged stun. Locks/spriests/hunters/mages have em. The world didn't end b/c they do. Why do we always need to be left out?

I like this example; lets take away all the diversity in video games so that an equal stage is set. This way no one can complain about one another because everyone is the same. Everyone can have everything.

I'd rather see a new MMO kill WoW, not WoW commit suicide.
Reply Quote
100 Troll Druid
7635
/cast Incarnation: Chosen of Elune(Shapeshift)
/cast Nature's Vigil
/cast Celestial Alignment
/use 14
Edited by Naílujm on 12/12/2012 2:55 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
8885
WOOT. Keladris -- you get it. Scartouch, your scenario assumes the warrior is not doing anything in response. I don't get write ups like these -- they just don't occur when you play good pvpers.

Cyous, the Mighty Bash is a talent. TALENT. So it should use your melee hit table if you're melee, and your spell hit table if you're a caster. Why is that crazy talk?

Diversity is one thing -- but I'm playing a toon who appears to be gimped in tools. Asking for similar tools is not nuts.

Nailujm, I'll copy over a great post from wowhead:

By Alnair (1,931 – 28) 2 days ago (Patch 5.1.0) Report
This spell cannot and should not be used simultaneously with the talents Incarnation: Chosen of Elune or Nature's Vigil, however it can be used in conjunction with them...

Inc and NV are both 30 Second buffs on a 3 minute cooldown, and Celestial Alignment is a 15 second buff on a 3 minute cooldown. In an optimal burst rotation you enter Incarnation at the moment you enter an eclipse state, cast spells for 15 seconds and then cast Celestial Alignment for the remaining 15 seconds of the Incarnation buff. In effect this extends the duration of time spent in an eclipse over the 30 second duration of Incarnation, allowing you to take greater advantage of Incarnation's damage Bonus.

Also Celestial Alignment (because it counts as entering Lunar Eclipse) resets the cooldown on Starfall. So for example a single target burst rotation would be something like:

. (75 pre-lunar energy)
00 pre-pot if out of combat
01 Starfall
02 Wrath (to enter eclipse, resets starfall)
03 Incarnation: Chosen of Elune and Nature's Vigil
04 Sunfire
05 Moonfire
06 Starfall (once the first expires)
07 Starsurge on CD or proc/ Starfire as filler
. (15 seconds left on Incarnation)
08 Celestial Alignment (resets Starfall)
09 Moonfire (also aplies Sunfire)
10 [ Starfall (once the second expires)
11 Starsurge on CD or proc/ Starfire as filler
12 Moonfire right before CA/INC/NV all fall off together.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
Lux
11730
I like this example; lets take away all the diversity in video games so that an equal stage is set. This way no one can complain about one another because everyone is the same. Everyone can have everything.

I'd rather see a new MMO kill WoW, not WoW commit suicide.

This. Like Cyous, I look at everything in a PvE standpoint (though one that's lower than his), but even in a PvP discussion this cannot be ignored.

Any argument that goes like "why can't we have X like class Y does" is inherently foolish. It's like warlocks saying "why can't we shift into cat form like druids can, whine." Different classes are different, and that's the way it should be.

Is a ranged stun that important to you? Then play a class with a ranged stun.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
11045
^ Pretty much
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
11620
Cyous, the Mighty Bash is a talent. TALENT. So it should use your melee hit table if you're melee, and your spell hit table if you're a caster. Why is that crazy talk?

Because you were not arguing that. You were arguing the need for a ranged stun because a few other classes have one. It's tyhe same spell for everyone. Blizzard shouldn't make 4 different versions of every single spell, especially when it's not needed. All Mighty Bash did was make pre-MOP Bash better.

12/07/2012 03:15 PMPosted by Gaiah
Holy sh.it you got a 500k Starsurge crit?

I'm seeing 620k maximum SS crits these days (potion wore off in SS).
[21:43:21.074] Cyous Starsurge Imperial Vizier Zor'lok *617264*

(late reply, sorry)
Edited by Cyous on 12/13/2012 5:34 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
2850
Cyous yo your not considering that in pvp you not gonna have all yhose buffs but lets say you did crit 500k in pvp that is a 200k hit not even enuf to kill someone also people have defencives and your 500k would not even would be brought dow thanks to a 100k shield that pala give so that would be brought down to 100k even if you did the imposible the average star surge crit is100k .

I know your saying but no one has 60% reciliance but every one starts with 40% even if you like it or not so your crit would do 300k to a person with no pvp armour think about that
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
11620
Cyous yo your not considering that in pvp you not gonna have all yhose buffs but lets say you did crit 500k in pvp that is a 200k hit not even enuf to kill someone also people have defencives and your 500k would not even would be brought dow thanks to a 100k shield that pala give so that would be brought down to 100k even if you did the imposible the average star surge crit is100k .

I know your saying but no one has 60% reciliance but every one starts with 40% even if you like it or not so your crit would do 300k to a person with no pvp armour think about that

You mean I would deal ~85% of someone's HP in a single GCD, potentially spammable? (Also, 600k * 0.6 = 360k (40% res); 60% res = 240k)

In a few BGs I did recently, I was critting for ~100k without CDs, via Starsurge. With CDs, the 10v10 fight in mid was over 10sec after I popped everyone (20sec fight total). Very few people have my level of gear in PvP, but I'd like to think the lack of PvP Power is balanced with the massive SP pool. For my friends whom play Moonkin, they are doing the exact same thing in BGs in full PvP gear. Sample size comes into question, but considering personal experience weighed against other's experience, Moonkin is fine™.
Edited by Cyous on 12/14/2012 7:14 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
5900
12/11/2012 11:50 PMPosted by Bolognä
Mages and Warlocks will ALWAYS pull better numbers than every other caster, and for good reason. You don't play a mage or warlock for anything else other than to dps, druids can do anything.

This is an old and outdated paradigm. Blizzard abandoned this philosophy a while ago.

Remember "Bring the Player not the Class?"
Edited by Gaiah on 12/14/2012 7:44 AM PST
Reply Quote
100 Tauren Druid
11145
I'd be happy with a talentable stun for Starsurge/Starfire...oh snap, we had one and they took it away from us.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]