Blizzard and Premades

90 Human Mage
4945
12/08/2012 03:52 PMPosted by Syrelan
jesus people let it go. I'm looking at pinata and faeyna, this argument has gon on long enough i demand a cease fire
If I said the sky was blue Pinata would ramble on about something unrelated and somehow get in an insult about Americans and accuse me of stomping someone's rights.
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19 Night Elf Druid
18870
Don't worry, Dax speaks out both sides of his mouth.

Daxxarrii: In short, the experience on a PvP server is different. We want it to be different, and that includes everything from honorable conflict on the field of battle to horribly despicable ganking. It's all part of the fabric that makes a PvP server what it is.

Let the blood be spilled.


So playing on a PvP server and ganking, camping, grouping against lowbies, scrubs, undergeared players is ok...

But queueing for PvP and doing the same is not acceptable...

lul


HOLY EFFING SHIZZ THIS SOOOOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also WTS voicechat countdown queues! You cant stop it BLIZZ >:< all you do is make the fun people have harder. And every time you do you wonder why people get more and more angry at you over the years. Ya us. The ones who keep playing even tho you kinda treat us like crap. Old AV. The End. (How many years has it been now blizz? And Im still here sayin the same thing. Just like I said I would be. Cant get a more loyal customer than that no matter where you look.)
Edited by Daarkorion on 12/8/2012 4:10 PM PST
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90 Draenei Mage
18360
I'd be far more likely to accept the "we want matches to be even" excuse if public matches were even. As it is now, if I queue with more than one other, I'm putting my team at a massive advantage because of how many bots there are.
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85 Human Mage
6325
12/08/2012 01:31 PMPosted by Nystul
Just like so many posters here you seem unable to separate opinions from facts. You are entitled to disagree with my opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts.


Ummm.... I don't understand.....?

Blizzard stated they don't approve of large premades. Fact....

You stated you don't agree with their stance. Opinion....
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90 Human Mage
4945
Ummm.... I don't understand.....?

Blizzard stated they don't approve of large premades. Fact....

You stated you don't agree with their stance. Opinion....
Nice try but that nothing to do with what I was telling that poster. You are a real piece of work... you should try politics.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
11010
12/08/2012 07:53 PMPosted by Verandra
Just like so many posters here you seem unable to separate opinions from facts. You are entitled to disagree with my opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts.


Ummm.... I don't understand.....?

Blizzard stated they don't approve of large premades. Fact....

You stated you don't agree with their stance. Opinion....


This is stupid and you are ignorant, banning premade add ons is not going to do ANYTHING, someone is just going to make another and another and another just like they have been EVERY SINGLE TIME THEY KICK ONE.

We've had these add ons since the beginning of WoW and they're not going anywhere, Blizzard can keep trying all they want but they will not stop us from queuing unrated BGs with a full premade.

STOP TRYING, the people that pay you are annoyed by it and you're not going to stop them, so just stop wasting time and fix real issues, not this petty crap that isn't even important.
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90 Troll Druid
11690
12/08/2012 09:43 PMPosted by Kayleri


Ummm.... I don't understand.....?

Blizzard stated they don't approve of large premades. Fact....

You stated you don't agree with their stance. Opinion....


This is stupid and you are ignorant, banning premade add ons is not going to do ANYTHING, someone is just going to make another and another and another just like they have been EVERY SINGLE TIME THEY KICK ONE.

We've had these add ons since the beginning of WoW and they're not going anywhere, Blizzard can keep trying all they want but they will not stop us from queuing unrated BGs with a full premade.

STOP TRYING, the people that pay you are annoyed by it and you're not going to stop them, so just stop wasting time and fix real issues, not this petty crap that isn't even important.


This is exactly why they can't eliminate botting. They detect and ban one bot program. The botters then reformulate their program to make detection harder. Some people get banned, but that dosn't stop the bot developers.
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90 Undead Warlock
7580
This is exactly why they can't eliminate botting. They detect and ban one bot program. The botters then reformulate their program to make detection harder. Some people get banned, but that dosn't stop the bot developers.


And that is why these premade add-ons are crucial for those who are sick of bots...
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90 Goblin Hunter
4900
Our premade ran with 2 healers cause I didn't want to wait for a 3rd and one match we ended up going against another premade. It was so close that we made them drop 4 orbs when thy were at 1591 to our 1548, at which point we picked up all 4 and won. So close and entertaining.

What makes it fun is Being in vent and getting to know the people playing with in vent. I don't need the honor. The team aspect is what's fun.
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The author of the above quote is on record saying that players only run premades to "stomp pugs" and that the bot issue is completely separate and unrelated to premades. I find this assertion to be both insulting and extremely short-sighted, as it does not reflect reality.


And I have found just the opposite to be true.

One of the supposed authors of a popular BG addon is also one of the most notorious for
taking great joy in the displeasure of other players from PUGs having to face his premades. In fact they built an entire website dedicated to them and this very exploitation.

This is one blizzard got Right for a change.
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90 Worgen Mage
6215
Most cross-realm premade teams I've been in only have one objective in mind - to win in order to gain Honor and/or Conquest Points.

People who use bots also have the same objective in mind.

So it makes no sense to me that Blizzard comes down hard on one form of what's deemed to be 'cheating', but do absolutely squat to the other (which is by far more rampant).
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90 Human Death Knight
13680
12/09/2012 04:28 AMPosted by Flásh
The author of the above quote is on record saying that players only run premades to "stomp pugs" and that the bot issue is completely separate and unrelated to premades. I find this assertion to be both insulting and extremely short-sighted, as it does not reflect reality.


And I have found just the opposite to be true.

One of the supposed authors of a popular BG addon is also one of the most notorious for
taking great joy in the displeasure of other players from PUGs having to face his premades. In fact they built an entire website dedicated to them and this very exploitation.

This is one blizzard got Right for a change.


What are you blabbering about? If you're referring to rage-whispers.com, the contents are solely geared towards people whining about multiboxers, not premades.
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90 Human Mage
4945
The whole reason I made this thread was to respond to the Blizzard employee Daxxari (who I quoted in the very beginning). The issue I have with Daxxari and Blizzard's take on premades is that they refuse to acknowledge that most people do premades to eliminate bots & bads from their group. When I say bads I am talking mostly about players that chose to ignore objectives and mindlessly PvP in the middle of nowhere (making them as useless as a bot). Yes some people do premades to "stomp pugs" but Daxxari is just flat out wrong when he states that premades & the bot issue are unrelated and that most people do premades to pug stomp.

Basically Daxxari is giving a large portion of the player base the middle finger by saying this. We have expressed our displeasure with bots & bads and Blizzard hasn't lifted a finger to address these issues. Sure they keep saying they take botting seriously, but until I see action that is just empty rhetoric as far as I'm concerned.

As many players like to say my $15 is just as good as theirs. I do BGs for fun but having my entire team (or close to it) fighting mindlessly in the middle of nowhere (bots, bads or a combination thereof) is not fun. Some players have said "the bots & bads cancel each other out, so it's a non-issue". First of all this is hardly ever true and secondly that is a pretty awful way to look at the situation. Finally Daxxari and others saying "go do RBGs" is also not a solution. So basically you are saying you won't do anything about bots, you don't care about players ignoring objectives but you want players that actually want a competitive match to go do RBGs?

The solution here is for blizzard to actually listen to their player base. Don't brush off players that are tired of having bots & bads on their team. Do something about these issues... crack down on bots & find a way to reward the players actually trying to win the match. I have suggested a 3rd BG that would be between randoms and RBGs... basically a "heroic" BG that is similar to a heroic PvE randoms. Minimum item level, assigned roles, a LFG/M feature, etc. The queue might be longer but I would be willing to wait a little longer for a better level of play. RBGs are problematic for a lot of reasons, but the main reasons boil down to the difficulty finding a group & the MMR issue (if you don't do RBGs a lot you will have a low MMR & the better groups won't take you).

So Daxxari try to be more diplomatic next time... sure you can't please everyone but try not to marginalize a large portion of the player base by saying their concerns are unfounded. The above issues are intertwined and related, whether you want to accept that or not.
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The part I can't understand, is how people can honestly think that creating a new problem (full premades) in any way helps the old problem (bots). Sure, you don't have bots on your side, but what about the groups you're facing? The bots are still there. They're still very much a part of PvP. All these full premades do is compound the problem. You didn't remove bots.

I'm also not convinced that removing bots is the entire story. Maybe, in part, people are doing this to remove bots, but stacking the odds certainly plays into it as well. For example - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7350505489

Blizzard needs to do something about the bots. They fixed what they can for now and that's making it a little more tolerable to have to deal with bots without having to deal with full premades as well. So, in essence, Blizzard is listening to their player base. It's just not what you wanted to hear.

I group. I like to group, but I'm not a big fan of full 10, 15 and 40 man premades playing in a system that's set up to match 5 man groups.
Edited by Jadei on 12/9/2012 9:40 AM PST
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90 Undead Warlock
7580
12/09/2012 09:10 AMPosted by Jadei
You didn't remove bots.


I did from my team, that's all that matters when I play.

12/09/2012 09:10 AMPosted by Jadei
I'm also not convinced that removing bots is the entire story.


Can't convince everyone. At the end of the day, I know what I'm in it for. Sure, some people have a different idea when joining a premade. But again, at the end of the day, all I care about is how my play style is affected. This add-on is available to everyone, and I hear it's even on curse now. I have recommended it to quite a few people.

12/09/2012 09:10 AMPosted by Jadei
They fixed what they can for now and that's making it a little more tolerable to have to deal with bots without having to deal with full premades as well.


I would rather fight a premade, than to roll over bots. Premades make you work for your win. It is possible to beat one, even a good 5man group on the other side can beat one, just takes a little more work...which is what random bgs should be about.
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90 Night Elf Priest
6155
12/09/2012 09:10 AMPosted by Jadei
The part I can't understand, is how people can honestly think that creating a new problem (full premades) in any way helps the old problem (bots). Sure, you don't have bots on your side, but what about the groups you're facing?


Forming premades is a legitamte solution to the bots and midfield hero plague because premades are available to everyone. It's been stated in this thread numerous times already. The fact that there is no barrier to entry to the premades found using a 3rd party mod that is available to everyone means there's no rationale that premades are unfair.

What has happened is that taking what was a clear-cut improvement to random BG's (oQueue) and partially disabling its functionality so that full premades don't dominate random pugs was shortsighted. These premades formed from people wanting to avoid the problems in BG's that cannot be fixed by Blizz apparently. The by-product was that these groups overwhelm random groups. The intelligent solution would be to embrace a queue system that allowed people to join groups where there was some sort of accountability for how a person plays. If someone ran around and didn't follow the game you could choose not to play with them. A consequence for bots and midfield heroes would be a great improvement.
Edited by Thebaine on 12/9/2012 10:57 AM PST
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12/09/2012 09:52 AMPosted by Jugaa
You didn't remove bots.


I did from my team, that's all that matters when I play.



So competition doesn't come into play as long as you have no bots on your side? I get the bot thing. I'm sick of bots. I'm pissed that it ever reached this level, but I can't see the solution in adding premades to the mix.

12/09/2012 09:10 AMPosted by Jadei
I'm also not convinced that removing bots is the entire story.


Can't convince everyone. At the end of the day, I know what I'm in it for. Sure, some people have a different idea when joining a premade. But again, at the end of the day, all I care about is how my play style is affected. This add-on is available to everyone, and I hear it's even on curse now. I have recommended it to quite a few people.


Tried it out before the patch. I was impressed with the ability to find other players to group with. I wasn't big on stacking those groups into one bg.

12/09/2012 09:10 AMPosted by Jadei
They fixed what they can for now and that's making it a little more tolerable to have to deal with bots without having to deal with full premades as well.


I would rather fight a premade, than to roll over bots. Premades make you work for your win. It is possible to beat one, even a good 5man group on the other side can beat one, just takes a little more work...which is what random bgs should be about.


Premades make you work for your win? A bad premade, yes. A well organized full premade stomps the other side. Random battlegrounds should be fun and competitive for everyone, imo. Bots make for a bad experience, but so do full premades. I'm not seeing how people claim one is bad for PvP and the other isn't. Until Blizzard's matching system can match a full premade to a full premade, neither bots or full premades are promoting fun or competition in the overall.
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90 Tauren Druid
10850
LOL this is the funniest stuff ever, seeing Drax ban addons from doing more than five to queue but to see that 90 ganking is fine in his book.

12/06/2012 11:28 AMPosted by Daxxarri
Let the blood be spilled.


I suppose I'll gank any level, stomp, camp and all that good jazz since he said it's fine :)

I like premades for the fact that it does eliminate majority of the bots out of the battleground on whatever faction I'm on. As for the ones that want to troll, go against premades are themselves botters, and that's confirmed. Because if you have all premades on both factions, that leaves you with NO bots.

What is actually a premade?

I always though of a premade is anyone consisting of more than one (1+) joining a battleground together, so they should remove the option to join as a party then queue as a group to eliminate any and all premades to allow all the bots mix and mingle and screw up the whole battleground objective. Namely AV, where Horde does lil to NO defending, if you watch on your map, all of the bots going north, they'll go kill Belinda, and then they go up north and stand outside of Van, waiting on you to pull.

Which then you get flamers, ragers, cry babies blaming horde on losing, the simple fact is to defend, like these addons are defending us from keeping "script kiddie" bots from entering our battlegrounds and helping us NOT prevail to a victory.
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