Buff Chaos Bolt!

90 Blood Elf Warlock
8250
I know this might seem kludgey, but I was wondering if Chaos Bolt could be changed to inflict increased damage (+50% or even +75%) on targets with high HPs. What is the threshold for "high HPs"? I was thinking it would be any target whose maximum HPs are more than double the warlock's.

This should not really change PvP much unless the warlock is attacking an enemy higher in level... but for PvE, it should make everyone happy. The Chaos Bolt is for taking out "the big boys". It's not for run-of-the-mill mobs or other players; that's like using a steamroller to crush ants.
If more of this damage takes the form of a DoT to discourage CB spam, that's ok, too.

While we're at it, why does Chaos Bolt take up 3 charges of Backdraft? I can see 2, but not 3.
Well, before this suggested change no less.
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90 Undead Warlock
3525
Uh? You want Chaos Bolt to hit for 75% more on raid bosses and raid trash? Are you even real?
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90 Undead Warlock
6705
I like the backdraft idea and had even though about the same thing last week.

But I think its doing decent damage now. Once you get gear at 90 you should better be able to see its range.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
8250
Yeah, I'm real. Here's how I see it.

Destruction is a bit weak in PvE, but generally fairly strong in PvP. How can we improve Destruction in PvE (particularly single target DPS which is where it seems to lag behind) without making it too strong in PvP.

So with those 2 things in mind, that's why I suggested my change. A lot of people like to suggest that the spells in the core rotation be changed but I don't believe you can buff the core rotation spells to improve single-target DPS for PvE significantly without giving PvP too much power. (I could be wrong.)
Edited by Blackmourne on 12/7/2012 8:04 AM PST
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90 Worgen Warlock
10340
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25H/100/14/60/default/ what? weak?
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25N/100/14/60/default/ weak?[its not the best but its a good Dps]

elegon whi this buff would be tons of fun , http://www.worldoflogs.com/zones/Mogu'shan_Vaults/Elegon/ .
50% + 75% locks could hit 2kk chaos bolt lol .

this would make chaos bolt just a HUGE over buffed skill.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
1760
Why would you buff a pure dmg skill? It's one of the most if not the most strong skill in the game... hitting for even 200k on players is no joke.
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90 Human Warlock
7325
Are there any damage spells they make work differently on raid bosses vs players? I thought they shied away from making abilities work very different in pvp vs pve
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90 Night Elf Hunter
2275
Buff it... I get hit by chaos bolt for 150k on average.
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90 Human Warlock
8815
Under what circumstance? BGs? If you're getting smacked like that in Arenas, you're not paying attention. If you see a warlock turn red...a hunter, perhaps more than any other class, has the tools to negate it. Concussion, Silencing Shot, Trap, etc..
Edited by Nivan on 12/7/2012 11:34 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
8250
12/07/2012 08:30 AMPosted by Malacath
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25H/100/14/60/default/
Yeah, that's a bit weak. That chart shows Destruction doing only ~89% of the damage of Affliction. If Destruction was in the mid-90s (>92), I'd think your point would be valid. A 10% damage discrepancy is a bit too high even if my proposed methodology for fixing it is dead wrong.

12/07/2012 08:30 AMPosted by Malacath
http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_DPS/25N/100/14/60/default
A 22% difference between specs, are you insane? I realize that you're never going to get things perfect while each one having a distinctive flavor... 7% is acceptable to me. 22% is not acceptable.

Are there any damage spells they make work differently on raid bosses vs players? I thought they shied away from making abilities work very different in pvp vs pve
You're probably right. It seems like most spells are moving away from specific utility like this. I remember when paladins had DPS spells that only worked on undead and frost mage had Deep Freeze which did damage to targets that it couldn't stun...

In fact, I was expecting a comment like this much sooner. I have come to realize most posters only read individual words at the beginning of the OP and then respond to what they THINK you're probably saying.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
2275
@Nivan of course I have ways to counter it all Im saying is that I don't think its right that there able to take someone down to less than 50% hp in one chaos bolt. But thats just my opinion and obviously your is going to differ cause your a lock yourself.
Edited by Rore on 12/7/2012 12:01 PM PST
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90 Human Warlock
13830
12/07/2012 11:58 AMPosted by Rore
@Nivan of course I have ways to counter it all Im saying is that I don't think its right that there able to take someone down to less than 50% hp in one chaos bolt. But thats just my opinion and obviously your is going to differ cause your a lock yourself.


But the damage bonus only applies when the target has more than double the caster's max HP, so the change will realistically only affect PvE (and vehicles in pvp, most likely).
I don't support such a large buff to CB though, since that would throw off the CB/SB dynamic and make cleaving with BoH more OP than Blade Flurry. If you want to buff Destro, buff Immolate. Immolate isn't bursting anything down, is useless for BoH cleaving, doesn't have to be balanced against an execute skill, and is useful for AoE as well. It's really the best choice for improving Destro's DPS across the board without monkeying with the rotation/spell priority.
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90 Worgen Warlock
10340
i dont see a 10% diference as problem[25%+ is a problem]

like the devs already said, its easy to make each spec DPS the same in the dummy test[what they doo] but its RLY hard to make them DPS the same in a encounter.

demo is near the dps of destro and i still play it because i like it.

but what i try to say here is...if you buff let see in 75% the damage of chaos bolt in boss fights...he would go for 150k[ because chaos bolt is like 40% of the rotation damage] and then...lets see.....demo would go and spam..."ITS UNFAIR BUFF DEMO FOR 75%" then affli.......ad infinitum.
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89 Human Hunter
5090
[quote="73487136893"]Under what circumstance? BGs? If you're getting smacked like that in Arenas, you're not paying attention. If you see a warlock turn red...a hunter, perhaps more than any other class, has the tools to negate it. Concussion, Silencing Shot, Trap, etc..[/quote

Though I agree with everything you said, I don't believe Concussive Shot interrupts anymore post 4.1.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
8250
Saitharis and Malacath made some excellent points and I agree with both of them. I primarily started this thread to just get people talking around an idea that I knew was inherently flawed.

I still think 3 points of Backdraft is too much. What's the point of getting a passive if the best thing to do for your DPS is to NEVER EVER use it?? Two seems fine to me.
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90 Worgen Warlock
13045
Buffing Immolate would by far be the better choice.
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90 Undead Warlock
11490
12/08/2012 12:52 PMPosted by Blackmourne
I still think 3 points of Backdraft is too much. What's the point of getting a passive if the best thing to do for your DPS is to NEVER EVER use it?? Two seems fine to me.


You shouldn't be wasting Backdraft charges on Chaos Bolt in PVE.
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90 Worgen Warlock
10340
backdraft chaosbolt is something for pvp.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
8250
12/08/2012 01:41 PMPosted by Rethasz
You shouldn't be wasting Backdraft charges on Chaos Bolt in PVE.
I think you'd break even if it cost 2 without making PvP too strong, but that's just conjecture.

At this point, I would be happy if Chaos Bolt simply awarded a free burning ember if the target died within 6 seconds of the attack the way Shadowburn works... or just get the burning ember you spent back.
Maybe getting BONUS embers for one-shotting stuff would be too powerful.
Edited by Blackmourne on 12/13/2012 7:49 AM PST
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90 Human Warlock
11360
The Chaos Bolt is for taking out "the big boys". It's not for run-of-the-mill mobs or other players; that's like using a steamroller to crush ants.
If more of this damage takes the form of a DoT to discourage CB spam, that's ok, too.

While we're at it, why does Chaos Bolt take up 3 charges of Backdraft? I can see 2, but not 3.
Well, before this suggested change no less.


I loved your analogy to a steamroller taking out ants. If I could get my hands on a steamroller, I would probably do that, although maybe I should move up from ants to something with a bit more blood in it.

It takes 3 charages of Backdraft since they want the choice to actually have a meaning. If Backdrafted Chaos Bolts only took 2 stacks, then in PvP, it would be something like this:

CoE > Conflag > 2 second CB > 1.3 second Incinerate.
Edited by Anathema on 12/13/2012 2:51 PM PST
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