Blood Death Knight or Brewmaster for Raiding

86 Worgen Druid
4735
Guild has commissioned me to make a tank to lead second raid team. I've played both specs (DK tanked early Cata and Brewmaster til around 70s). I'll be starting the character fresh, as I've transferred realms since then.

My question to you guys is which of the two appears to be more useful, as far as raid utility, tank dps, survivability and is optimal for healers to work with?

Any and all thoughts appreciated!

P.S. If you plan to drop the old "OMG play the spec you enjoy the most herp derp", please don't bother. I thoroughly enjoy both classes. Hell, I just love tanking.
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86 Worgen Druid
4735
Also, if you think another class or spec is more viable than Blood or BM, please let me know! I'm interested in anything and everything community has to say on the matter.
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90 Draenei Monk
8310
Well, you already have an 86 druid...
But really it depends on what you like about tanking and what you don't.

If you like a simple "rotation" with a giant health pool, DK is probably best.
If you like a slighly more complex rotation, and juggling debuffs then Monk is for you.

That's just my experience though.
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100 Orc Warrior
13210
12/08/2012 12:11 PMPosted by Progress
My question to you guys is which of the two appears to be more useful, as far as raid utility, tank dps, survivability and is optimal for healers to work with?


If a class is obviously more useful, the devs have been good about finding and correcting the imbalance. Stop trying to find "the most useful tank".

If you don't have a preference between classes then I'd pick based on other factors:
- will there be much competition for plate or leather armor?
- does your raid already have someone covering battle res and horn of winter, or already have someone covering the Monk's Legacy buffs?
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
Play whichever one you...
12/08/2012 12:11 PMPosted by Progress
P.S. If you plan to drop the old "OMG play the spec you enjoy the most herp derp", please don't bother.

...dammit.

Okay, seriously, then? Play whichever competes for gear in your raid least, or whichever brings missing buffs. DKs bring battlerez and AP, monks bring mastery or stats.
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
14765
What Krinu said, if you like both equally, go with the one that fits your comp better.
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
19260
You also didn't mention if you know what the other tank will be. Usually not a great idea to have 2 of the same. All tanks have weaknesses and having 2 of the same can get you stuck on a certain boss that exploits that weakness. Imagine trying to do prenerf Heroic Yor'sahj with 2 warriors or Heroic Beth'tilac with 2 dks.

As has been said all the tanks can get the job done so it''s usually best to choose based on raid comp. Buff coverage is also a factor. No point in watching leather pieces go to de when half the raid is fighting over plate drops and vice versa.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
19110
Play whichever one you...
P.S. If you plan to drop the old "OMG play the spec you enjoy the most herp derp", please don't bother.

...dammit.

Okay, seriously, then? Play whichever competes for gear in your raid least, or whichever brings missing buffs. DKs bring battlerez and AP, monks bring mastery or stats.


Monks bring mastery??

12/08/2012 04:07 PMPosted by Paintbrush
depends on your raid, and buffs


Yep ^

If your raid ends up being, a monk healer, a shaman, a warrior, a hunter etc etc, then you playing another monk will definitely be detrimental- but if you end up with say, a priest and a paladin then a monk wouldn't be bad.

Also, keep in mind that a paladin tank brings a lot of 'extra' stuff to a raid. ;)
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90 Pandaren Monk
6010
Other than obvious, "take what you need". I'd vote DK, not that i feel brewmaster is weak or anything i just feel that DK's are a little bit stronger.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
6755
death knights,were more well rounded incase a boss throws out un dodgeable or magic damage
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
12/09/2012 04:38 PMPosted by Plethora
Monks bring mastery??

Sorry, that wasn't clear - it was monks bring either mastery or stats, I forget which.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
Stats, with WW adding Crit.
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12/08/2012 12:11 PMPosted by Progress
P.S. If you plan to drop the old "OMG play the spec you enjoy the most herp derp", please don't bother. I thoroughly enjoy both classes. Hell, I just love tanking.


Then flip a coin.
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100 Pandaren Monk
10860
As healer perspective and experience, heal GOOD Brewmaster in raid is easier than GOOD DK and GOOD Warrior. Another things is DK stamina is very high, need healer to use more mana to top it up. Brewmaster has given more dps in raid compare to other tank if the brewmaster does not gem and enchant for stamina. Stamina for Brewmaster is mainly come from gear. They should never gem and enchant for stamina. Brewmaster most important buff is agi, not stamina. Play a good brewmaster is really harder than other tanking class. It is not a matter to keep shuffle up only. When to purify, when to elusive brew, when to guard, when to expel harm, when to breath of fire, when to chi wave, when to avert harm, when to zen meditation, when to glyph guard, when to jab, when to keg smash, when to tiger palm ...etc all is very important.

Anyway, I have stated good brewmaster, which is very little. Actually, I hate to heal average or bad brewmasters, their health drop so fast compare to other tanking class.

I like to heal good dk, it is easy compare to the average or bad brewmasters in raid.

DK can tank in H dungeon without healer except Shadopan Monastery, but Brewmaster cant do like that.

TL;DR:
If u like challenging and very fun, play Brewmaster. On the contrary, use DK.
Edited by Xiongxiong on 12/9/2012 8:34 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7275
Ever healed or considered it?
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90 Orc Death Knight
Woe
12005
DK would likely be the best choice to help your guild progress.

Long story short, DKs and Monks operate under a similar "take damage and heal it up" paradigm though point for point DKs are just more straightforward and can have comparable baseline survivability, but are completely dominant with cooldowns.

- Monks have to use almost all of their gcds to maintain their active mitigation (and get smeared on the floor if they don't) where DKs have more of an all in one heal/shield button with death strike, which also scales with mastery, and just frees DKs up with not being paranoid about having moments in a fight where you can't be banking shuffle

- Expel Harm vs Death Strike - Death Strike not only heals but shields, and isn't strictly cooldown limited, so you can actually be creative with pooling resources to optimize it. Expel Harm is just spammed on cooldown if the healing can be used and mashed if you're right about to die.

- Gift of the Ox vs Blood worms - Gift of the Ox procs healing spheres that you have to walk over and pick up, often causing bosses to wiggle or adds to reposition around you, where Blood Worms just automatically do damage while healing you, and heal the raid when they expire.

The real difference though, and where Monks really need work to be brought to par is in cooldowns. It's a bit more work but you can have somewhat similar baseline survivability with a monk, but the comparison gets completely obliterated by the numerous personal cooldowns and utility talents a DK can chain. Spammable short cooldowns like AMS and Bone Shield, powerful baseline avoidance/mitigation/healing cooldowns like IBF, DRW, Vamp Blood, Army, and the personal utility of having stun breaks, personal dispels, and a choice between a fear break + self heal or the ability to just completely eat one shot mechanics.

Monks otoh have a shield wall which doesn't break stuns, and a choice between a better AMS with twice the cooldown or a better Bone Shield with a longer cooldown. Also, don't forget the oddball that is Zen Meditation, which is like a Dispersion that lasts as long as you don't move at all and gets dispelled by one melee attack.

Even little things like Rune Tap; going below 30% on a DK procs a *free* Rune Tap AND reduces damage taken by 25% for 8 seconds, which has synergy with other short cooldowns and will probably save your life, where going below 35% on a monk lets you use expel harm again if it was on cooldown and is a much more iffy proposition whether you'll bounce back.

This is where Brewmaster needs a lot of love. Right now they're only propped up in 25 man by a broken raid bubbling mechanic that gets used exploitatively
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90 Undead Warrior
11620
If the other tank is agi, you definitely want to be plate.

But if they aren't, go agi. Way more useful tank drops for agi tanks.
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100 Pandaren Monk
11605
Mausel's post is a pile of nonsense.
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100 Blood Elf Monk
14965
I think Mausel's post is well thought out. If I miss any uptime on my mitigation mechanics I get hammered, where-as on my dk its a pretty brainless rotation by comparison.
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