When Will the Priest Apocalypse End!?

90 Undead Priest
18275
If you're going to use your own personal performance as evidence that Shadow priests need buffs, I think it's entirely alright for people to alternate reasons for poor performance.

Honestly, other than improving our single target a bit, we're fine. We really don't need improvement.

I think a lot of this (by "this" I mean complaints and concerns about Shadow DPS and/or lack of viability) stems from two changes that happened going from Cataclysm to MoP.

1. Shadow priests were very strong to basically overpowered in Cataclysm in every tier of content. Shadow had very strong DPS in every tier. I think this has somewhat skewed people's expectations of Shadow's relative spot on meters. We were not the bar. The bar was far beneath us.

2. Shadow was easier to play well in Cataclysm. You had fewer abilities to use and they were used in a much more predictable manner. Now, you should generally be specced into FDCL and sometimes DI, adding RNG that really didn't exist in the Shadow rotation by the end of Dragon Soul. Even the shadow orb related RNG that existed prior to 4pc T13 really didn't require any real intelligence or reaction to handle. You simply cried to yourself quietly and refreshed your dots before you lost Empowered Shadows. Maximizing MBs has always been important, but it's absolutely critical now that your DPS revolves around DP.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
Actually I would say that Shadow in Cata was a lot harder, at least before the T13 4piece. You had to watch for and even fish for the shadow orb procs and structure your entire rotation around something totally random. Right now the only proc shadow has is FDCL (you usually take ToF over DI), and since it stacks to 2 you don't even have to deal with it in a timely fashion, and it has next to no impact on your other spell choices. Shadow's procs now actually make things easier thanks to adding instant casts rather than much, much harder in the way they did in Cata.
Edited by Sotanaht on 12/11/2012 4:03 PM PST
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90 Undead Priest
18275
12/11/2012 04:01 PMPosted by Sotanaht
You had to watch for and even fish for the shadow orb procs and structure your entire rotation around something totally random.


You just refreshed your dots right before the proc fell off and continued your rotation. To be honest, after your initial orb, there usually weren't too many issues with keeping up ES anyways.

Now? You have FDCL for almost every fight. Sometimes you also have DI. On top of that, you're penalized harder for not maxing your MB count since DP is such an important part of your DPS. It only gets more demanding as your target count increases, up until you start just Mind Searing. It's definitely a more complicated rotation.
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90 Goblin Priest
15415
12/10/2012 07:45 PMPosted by Tenar
1) Psychic Horror paralyzes people for 1-3 secs, but last I checked the disarm lasts a full 8 secs, even when using only 1 orb.

2-4 secs actually, 1 sec per orb + 1 sec baseline
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90 Troll Priest
Rex
14195
it's not an easy/hard thing for me, it's just that you can handily out damage a well played spriest as a mediocre warlock in just about every single situation. their soulburn soulswap and +500% radius seed of corruption blows priest multidotting out of the water, and their dark soul shenanigans trounce our lolbender cooldown for single target damage.

if they don't give priests a strong baseline cooldown, or buff PI for shadow in a way that makes DI used only on shared-pool council fights, we will be way under warlocks for the rest of the expac.

i really think part of this, though, is set bonuses. our set bonuses in cata were amazing for the last two tiers. the warlock set bonuses this tier buff their single target, aoe, and multidot (2pc) and their cooldown (4pc) in ways our garbage 4 piece could only dream of.
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90 Goblin Priest
9075
First of all: it's Rogue, not rouge. Rouge is a lipstick color, not a WoW class.

Second: Holy DPS is nowhere near shadow DPS or you're terrible at shadow, period. It has always been that way and will always be that way, just like shadow will never outheal a holy or disc priest. I hate the term l2p, but this is one of those cases.

As for PvP: shadow priests are currently one of the best classes in the game and have some of the most competetive comps in arena. They are also very good in RBGs and dueling (for what that's worth since it doesn't mean anything). If you think shadow priests are bad and rogues are good you must be living on another planet. Rogues are terrible right now unless you're a 2400 plus skilled rogue playing with other top players who can carry the cc/dmg.

But hey, you got owned in a duel so priest must be underpowered and you "know how to play the class". Just like all the bads in LFR know what they are doing and how dare a heroic raider make strat suggestions to THEM!?!? Lol.

Edit: the rotation now is easier than cataclysm, procs are much simpler than maintaining a buff that relies on RNG through any fight that requires target switching or movement (which is almost all of them). We were very good during cataclysm, thanks in large part to how well we scaled with haste and the legendary, but it wasn't because the rotation was easy.
Edited by Lamika on 12/12/2012 11:35 AM PST
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100 Undead Priest
6825
12/09/2012 10:47 PMPosted by Direshadows
As a pvper, all I have to say is that I'll be laughing maniacally at the top of my lungs if they ever buff our damage.
I'm not. 'cause I'm disc I need more damage then a holy pally. 'cause they can out live, out heal, out cc us to hell.
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90 Human Priest
3905

Second: Holy DPS is nowhere near shadow DPS or you're terrible at shadow, period. It has always been that way and will always be that way, just like shadow will never outheal a holy or disc priest. I hate the term l2p, but this is one of those cases.



Either you don't know how to DPS as holy, or you are stating facts that you have not personally tested. The 5.1 patch made holy dps capability extremely nice, but you have to properly gear/glyph/reforge for it.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
5320
12/09/2012 08:21 PMPosted by Mindplague
under-geared rouge in duels


LOL had too


I pictured a rogue in REALLY frumpy makeup
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90 Goblin Priest
9075

Second: Holy DPS is nowhere near shadow DPS or you're terrible at shadow, period. It has always been that way and will always be that way, just like shadow will never outheal a holy or disc priest. I hate the term l2p, but this is one of those cases.



Either you don't know how to DPS as holy, or you are stating facts that you have not personally tested. The 5.1 patch made holy dps capability extremely nice, but you have to properly gear/glyph/reforge for it.


I'm sure blizzard intentionally sat around and spent time saying "hey guys, let's make holy priest DPS a viable alternative to shadow.." because clearly healing specs should be able to DPS. Stop it. Just like people who thought Disc smite healing was viable (hint: it wasn't. Being usable in a couple specific situations doesn't make it viable). There is a huge difference between being able to do something occasionally and all the time. I don't need to holy dps anymore than I needed to shuriken toss on my rogue to know its stupid.

I'm obviously not maining a priest this expansion, this is a reroll I am leveling for pvp on a new server. But I'm familiar with high end raiding and I've been in several top guilds. I'm not going to spend any more time discussing it.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
9275
Holy dps in multi-target (like 3 or more) fights is extremely powerful now, simply because the dps chakra increases shadow spells by 50% as well. Mind sear simply becomes overpowered. I did 145k DPS in an LFR wind lord fight simply because there's 10 targets. On single target fights I did about 70-80k DPS as holy.

Don't just dismiss holy DPS because it sounds odd.
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90 Goblin Priest
9075
Like I said, and please read this a few times: just because there are a couple cases where something works doesn't make it viable. It is a fact that holy dps is not as good as shadow dps, period, end of story. I dismiss anything that is blatantly stupid and trying to tell me how awesome holy dps is definitely qualifies. Each spec has a role, one, singular. It doesn't mean they can't do another role in certain cases. Get it yet? This is worse than the people in the warrior forums who were arguing that a 7-10% dps difference between specs didn't matter.

I've raided in multiple top 50 us guilds, I've never seen a "wierd" spec at that level of raiding. You want to know why? Because at even that level the players do everything possible to give themselves the best chance to kill bosses, and that goes even more for world first or top 10 guilds who are at another entire level from what I've been a part of. But hey, that one fight where you did good clearly means your raid should let you holy dps all the time right?
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90 Goblin Priest
9075
Oh, and mind sear is really only good on 5+ targets and fights with extended periods of that are rare. You also need to realize that overall dps doesn't equal effective dps. What I mean is that a lot of fight have specific mechanics and gear checks independent of total dps. Ragnaros phase 2 required aoe dmg, phase 3 required single target. A dps class needs to be able to handle multiple types of fights effectively, shadow clearly does. Holy doesn't. The end.
Edited by Lamika on 12/12/2012 6:36 PM PST
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90 Human Priest
5300
Lamika: If you dont have a 90 priest, you have zero clue what youre talking about, holy is a viable DPS spec in ALL instances since 5.1 dropped and shadow is built horribly and is one of the bottom DPS this xpac
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100 Troll Priest
11965
12/12/2012 06:51 PMPosted by Jafas
Lamika: If you dont have a 90 priest, you have zero clue what youre talking about, holy is a viable DPS spec in ALL instances since 5.1 dropped and shadow is built horribly and is one of the bottom DPS this xpac

OMG. You have the nerve to call out someone else as not having a clue...
THEN you say that Holy DPS is viable in all instances.. when the reality is that it is only viable if you can stand still and hardcast your heart out (and gear/glyph/talent for it, which doesn't do your healing any good)...
THEN you recite the state of Shadow priests at the beginning of the xpac, ignoring all the buffs that have been made to the class since then.
Might want to avoid throwing stones if you live in a glass house.
Edited by Ticktacktick on 12/12/2012 8:31 PM PST
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90 Undead Priest
7945
Shadow PVP is in a good place right now.. If your getting killed in bgs/rbgs then your playing your class wrong. You should be sitting in the back row dotting everyone in the room like a boss. While getting your 3 orbs + trinket on a target switch.
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90 Human Priest
3905
Like I said, and please read this a few times: just because there are a couple cases where something works doesn't make it viable. It is a fact that holy dps is not as good as shadow dps, period, end of story. I dismiss anything that is blatantly stupid and trying to tell me how awesome holy dps is definitely qualifies. Each spec has a role, one, singular. It doesn't mean they can't do another role in certain cases. Get it yet? This is worse than the people in the warrior forums who were arguing that a 7-10% dps difference between specs didn't matter.

I've raided in multiple top 50 us guilds, I've never seen a "wierd" spec at that level of raiding. You want to know why? Because at even that level the players do everything possible to give themselves the best chance to kill bosses, and that goes even more for world first or top 10 guilds who are at another entire level from what I've been a part of. But hey, that one fight where you did good clearly means your raid should let you holy dps all the time right?


We do appreciate that you took the time to actually test this and bring us the factual numbers on this discussion. I would never presume that a player of (as you claimed) your status would ever put out things as being fact without testing them. Cause, well, that would just be silly. I mean, lord knows that an online game could never unintentionally release a patch that had unforeseen results! Again, that is just plain silly! They test this stuff!!
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90 Troll Priest
11525
Holy DPS is NOT a viable DPS spec. I can guarantee that any claims your making are coming in an LFR setting with little to no movement and with mechanics that are ignorable.
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90 Human Priest
3905
12/13/2012 04:58 AMPosted by Dazbekzul
Holy DPS is NOT a viable DPS spec. I can guarantee that any claims your making are coming in an LFR setting with little to no movement and with mechanics that are ignorable.


I've been doing Elegon 10m normal as holy dps this week with no issues...

Know what happens when you assume?
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