Community Demonized Garrash Form the Start

90 Pandaren Rogue
7060
My personal issue with Garrosh is that his character is inconsistent to me. It's like a bunch of writers wanted to write Garrosh their own way, and now the only way to "save" the character is to hit him with the villain bat and put him down.
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90 Human Warrior
13525
12/08/2012 11:29 AMPosted by Seyna
My personal issue with Garrosh is that his character is inconsistent to me. It's like a bunch of writers wanted to write Garrosh their own way, and now the only way to "save" the character is to hit him with the villain bat and put him down.


He's always been inconsistent as per Golden's analysis.
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90 Pandaren Rogue
7060
12/08/2012 11:35 AMPosted by Lorthuron
He's always been inconsistent as per Golden's analysis.


Ah. I haven't read any of the books. It's nice to know I'm on the mark, though.
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90 Human Warrior
13525
12/08/2012 11:50 AMPosted by Seyna
He's always been inconsistent as per Golden's analysis.


Ah. I haven't read any of the books. It's nice to know I'm on the mark, though.


Err it was in a interview via...I think Omfgcata interviewed her.....can't remember who but I think it was him.
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81 Human Mage
1295
Garrosh went from:

-depressed Mag'har who was feeling nothing but shame about his father's legacy
to
-proud, if headstrong warrior with pride in his heritage

Then with Wrath, that went out the window, slowly but surely:

-Overlord(wtf?) of the Warsong Offensive, hotheaded and reckless; defended the death of Draenei children and displayed a warmongering that would make Gul'Dan blush

Of course, Cataclysm hit him with the evil bat we have now.

There's no method to his madness. Why? Why does he come from Outland, where there was little to no Horde-Alliance war and suddenly want to genocide the entire Alliance?
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90 Human Warrior
13525
We are in his way, we dare to defy his thirst for conquest.
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90 Worgen Rogue
15605
Community demonized Satan from the start. When he appeared in the bible he was an angel of god doing disasters in his name.

If it wasn't for people &^%@# about him from the start, we wouldnt have to worry about him this december 20 or 21 whatever.
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90 Pandaren Monk
11755
I want to like Garrosh, but... killing Cairne? getting into arguments and death threats with Vol'jin? Showing racism agaisnt fellow Horde members? Supporting Genocide?

Remove those four things, and Garrosh would be the best Warchief the Horde has ever had, and many players would likely support and love Garrosh.


I think this is pretty on the money.

Also, I think that a lot of Horde (that care about it anyway) feel a little cheated out of what we got from Garrosh as a character and a warcheif. I remember a post from Zarhym that hinted that Garrosh would develop and not be what we expected when we first found out he would be Warchief. I don't think this is what the majority of Horde players had in mind.
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12/08/2012 11:56 AMPosted by Jorthen
There's no method to his madness. Why? Why does he come from Outland, where there was little to no Horde-Alliance war and suddenly want to genocide the entire Alliance?


I believe in one of the books when Thrall was showing him around Orgrimmar for the first time, he was appalled by the condition in which the Orcs were living and their apathy toward the situation.

He saw lush forests to the west and learned that the only reason the Orcs had not gathered tons of resources from there was because of their conflicts with the Kaldorei. I'm guessing he rationalized that if the purple elves were out of the picture, the Orcs and the rest of the Horde could live the way he thought they should be able to.

I assume his intense hatred for the Humans and the Alliance as a whole was due to their alliance with the Kaldorei. Not to mention the humans doing things like building roads right through former Horde Territory. He also most likely heard stories about how the Orcs were imprisoned.

Were the results of his campaign extreme? Yes. The bombing of both the druid school and Theramore were seen as horrible catastrophes, but in his eyes it only seemed like the smart thing to do. If you have to resources to completely wipe the enemy forces off the map, why wouldn't you?

Garrosh only wants what is best for his people. His flaw is just that though; he only wants what is best for HIS people. He doesn't care what happens to all of the other races including the ones he considers allies. As long as the Orcs come out on top, that's all that matters to Hellscream.
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90 Human Warrior
11685
I liked impulsive Garrosh and Angry Varian. There are way to many flawless characters in the lore already.

There should be many more Garrithos' and Sylvanus' in the lore also. Flawed characters are interesting. We live in a world where skin color is enough cause for racism and genocide. Imagine the same world with creatures with a similar intellect but wildly different features on-top of generations of warring between the different species.

The Tirion's and the Thrall's are only as good as the next mega-evil comic book bad guy comes along.

Garrosh should emerge victorious in the siege of Ogrimmar, successfully harnessing the power of the Devine Bell and unleashing hell. The Alliance should have to take drastic measures of their own to counter his growing strength, Epic threat level stuff that ties in older lore from previous X-packs, similar to this newer warlock faction utilizing the old raid boss's and abilities.

Let Garrosh pull off something epic enough, and the player base will forgive him for being an outright !@#. He'll be an $%^ that can back up his words.

Instead of a big raid to fight another ancient forgotten evil that is obviously going to be crushed, how about two raids for each faction battling it out against Allliance/Horde npcs? Lets see a faction leader or two get stomped on for epics for a few tiers, with an evil random bad guy faction getting stomped once in awhile.
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90 Human Warrior
13525
I liked impulsive Garrosh and Angry Varian. There are way to many flawless characters in the lore already.


Flawless characters? Yeah there are not a lot of them, there are some but not a lot. Varian is flawed, his anger issues clouded his judgment. Having flawed characters all the time and not getting over it is pretty not believable.

There should be many more Garrithos' and Sylvanus' in the lore also. Flawed characters are interesting. We live in a world where skin color is enough cause for racism and genocide. Imagine the same world with creatures with a similar intellect but wildly different features on-top of generations of warring between the different species.


Uhh no we don't need more Garithos and Sylvanas. Flawed characters does not equate interesting. It's how they are written that is interesting. You may like flawed characters but not everyone does.

The Tirion's and the Thrall's are only as good as the next mega-evil comic book bad guy comes along.


Incorrect, some are inspired by their ideals and beliefs and look up to them and can relate them hence why people can find them interesting.

Garrosh should emerge victorious in the siege of Ogrimmar, successfully harnessing the power of the Devine Bell and unleashing hell. The Alliance should have to take drastic measures of their own to counter his growing strength, Epic threat level stuff that ties in older lore from previous X-packs, similar to this newer warlock faction utilizing the old raid boss's and abilities.


.....And how the crap would that make sense game mechanicly? I don't think you really thought this out very much.

Let Garrosh pull off something epic enough, and the player base will forgive him for being an outright !@#. He'll be an $%^ that can back up his words.


No players will not forgive him, people want to slay Garrosh and making him win does not win. It just doesn't make sense, leading everything up to Garrosh becoming a villain and having him win?

Makes little sense.

Instead of a big raid to fight another ancient forgotten evil that is obviously going to be crushed, how about two raids for each faction battling it out against Allliance/Horde npcs? Lets see a faction leader or two get stomped on for epics for a few tiers, with an evil random bad guy faction getting stomped once in awhile.


Except Garrosh isn't a forgotten Evil or anything. It's his personal corruption that will turn the world against him. Let's note the game would be dead and...well yeah I don't think you thought this out very well.
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85 Human Mage
9660
I love my moral lawful good characters but even I'm getting annoyed with the level of stupid idealism from Jaina and Anduin.
Edited by Gred on 12/8/2012 2:07 PM PST
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90 Human Warrior
13525
12/08/2012 02:01 PMPosted by Gred
I love my moral lawful good characters but even I'm getting annoyed with the level of stupid idealism from Jaina and Anduin.


Jaina has her reasons for what she does as does Anduin aside from NOT telling Varian about the Sha. HE SHOULD of told him that. Now that could be writer error but the Sha are way too dangerous to NOT be informed about.
Edited by Lorthuron on 12/8/2012 2:43 PM PST
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90 Human Warrior
11685

Flawless characters? Yeah there are not a lot of them, there are some but not a lot. Varian is flawed, his anger issues clouded his judgment. Having flawed characters all the time and not getting over it is pretty not believable.

Uhh no we don't need more Garithos and Sylvanas. Flawed characters does not equate interesting. It's how they are written that is interesting. You may like flawed characters but not everyone does.

Incorrect, some are inspired by their ideals and beliefs and look up to them and can relate them hence why people can find them interesting.

.....And how the crap would that make sense game mechanicly? I don't think you really thought this out very much.

No players will not forgive him, people want to slay Garrosh and making him win does not win. It just doesn't make sense, leading everything up to Garrosh becoming a villain and having him win?

Makes little sense.

Except Garrosh isn't a forgotten Evil or anything. It's his personal corruption that will turn the world against him. Let's note the game would be dead and...well yeah I don't think you thought this out very well.


While this all boils down from your opinion to mine, the point about Garrosh I was trying to make is all he needs to swing back into popularity is do something epic or gracious enough and he will become popular again. This is a fact of media in life, and it worked in WoW already for Varian in ICC and Garrosh in the Stone talon mountains.


I also think it would be interesting to have a raid encounter that you actually lose for once. Kind of like warcraft 3 and Starcraft. The "bad" guy actually gets what they want in the end, and the entire world shifts because of it, everything starts to really feel uncertain. Garrosh turning the tide of a siege almost single handedly would certainly qualify him for some hero worship. On another note: The Horde raid could be defending Ogrimmar in the raid scenario, rather than assaulting it with the Alliance. Use some imagination.

They could do some creative stuff in the future with Varian and his wolf god powers vs. Garrosh and his mogu enhancements. The Horde would have the equivalent of a nuclear weapon in the Devine Bell. The Alliance could have a ton of content of unlocking the secret of that power in further additional content or finding an equalizer from the Titan facilities in Ulduar.

All kinds of additional content and escalation. Exciting and different. Or is everyone eager to kill the next bad guy?
Yay Queen Azhara is here to flood the world because she's a badguy, with a bad mood.
Kel'thuzad has recovered! Here comes the waves of undead again!
Kil'jaedon has made it all the way through the portal this time! Prepare the wisp army!
Oh look Sargeras is back, this time he REALLY means business!

And they all lose, galactic powers and unstoppable armies to 10 (5?) really determined Mercs that love their shiny stuff.

I think this faction based conflict in MoP, prepared the right way would be a much better alternative to always killing the next evil monster.
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90 Human Warrior
13525
Except your opinion and sorry it's just not very well thought out. You're simplfying world threats and demeaning them as if they're not interesting. I don't demean this faction conflict. And the whole bad guy losing thing is overrated. We nearly lost during wrath.

While this all boils down from your opinion to mine, the point about Garrosh I was trying to make is all he needs to swing back into popularity is do something epic or gracious enough and he will become popular again. This is a fact of media in life, and it worked in WoW already for Varian in ICC and Garrosh in the Stone talon mountains.


Except HE IS NOT. He's been going downhill to villain since Mop was announced and via Tides of War. Switching that would make little sense. Also media IRL=/ Beliefs of the people of Azeroth. Don't compare reality and fantasy in the situation you're making.

There's much more imagiation to it if you stop simplfying it because you don't like the concept of world threats.
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90 Human Warrior
11685
Except your opinion and sorry it's just not very well thought out. You're simplfying world threats and demeaning them as if they're not interesting. I don't demean this faction conflict. And the whole bad guy losing thing is overrated. We nearly lost during wrath.

While this all boils down from your opinion to mine, the point about Garrosh I was trying to make is all he needs to swing back into popularity is do something epic or gracious enough and he will become popular again. This is a fact of media in life, and it worked in WoW already for Varian in ICC and Garrosh in the Stone talon mountains.


Except HE IS NOT. He's been going downhill to villain since Mop was announced and via Tides of War. Switching that would make little sense. Also media IRL=/ Beliefs of the people of Azeroth. Don't compare reality and fantasy in the situation you're making.

There's much more imagiation to it if you stop simplfying it because you don't like the concept of world threats.


Mmmk.

World threats stop being world threats when they come as often as they do. Dr. Evil and Austin Powers did this routine also. We have already fought unstoppable armies, plagues, dead gods, avatars of gods, elemental gods, cults, space monsters, ghosts, and the rest. Its the same routine as usual. Where going to win, the only thing undecided is which raid team is getting their first, and how many faceless, inflatable armies (the factions have many) the Horde/Alliance are going to lose in the process.

They can break the routine with something fresh.

And again, if they spent enough energy they could redeem Garrosh easily enough. You really don't get the concept of popularity. He doesn't need to become a white knight, he doesn't need to convince the Alliance he's an alright guy. He just needs to connect with the races of the Horde on the lore level, and become the edgy guy players can get behind. Hes got victories using questionable means in some of the books. So? He's still not even in the same league as his father or Doomhammer, revered hero's of the old Dark Horde.

Also: Why are you RANDOMLY capitalizing WORDS to put special EMPHASIS on things?
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12/08/2012 01:53 PMPosted by Lorthuron
I liked impulsive Garrosh and Angry Varian. There are way to many flawless characters in the lore already.


Flawless characters? Yeah there are not a lot of them, there are some but not a lot. Varian is flawed, his anger issues clouded his judgment. Having flawed characters all the time and not getting over it is pretty not believable.


Actually the majority of the horde racial leaders are relatively flawless. Thrall? pretty much jesus, saves the world and still acts like he's a normal sob. Vol'jin? AKA thralls lapdog and such acts exactly as he does, honestly very little flaws with him as well. Cairne? Basicly the most ideal honorable warrior, and his son has followed in his footsteps. You can say what you want about these guys history, but it really doesnt mater. It's what they've become, honestly these guys are ideal leaders and pretty much useless in a game that takes aggression as it's primary method of fun.
Edited by Issaic on 12/8/2012 9:12 PM PST
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90 Human Mage
13505
No dude Garrosh CAN NOT BE REDEEMED. What you're asking is stupid.
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12/08/2012 09:12 PMPosted by Valius
No dude Garrosh CAN NOT BE REDEEMED. What you're asking is stupid.

And you miss they entire point. No one is arguing he can be redeemed as of now, I'm saying as of THIS patch he was made the absolute villain just because the community !@#$%ed about him last patch.
Edited by Issaic on 12/8/2012 9:15 PM PST
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1 Blood Elf Rogue
0

To me, it seemed like a lot of Horde players were into killing Alliance, with the all out DEATH TO THE ALLIANCE, FOR THE HORDE mentality.

Its just weird that as soon as a leader with that mindset comes in to power, they DON'T like him, despite him doing exactly what they were doing!


It's because the horde playerbase wants the pretense of moral superiority, which Garrosh does not allow.

Same reason Varian was killed off and replaced with a super-jesus clone.
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