Community Demonized Garrash Form the Start

90 Pandaren Monk
11755
12/08/2012 09:11 PMPosted by Issaic
Actually the majority of the horde racial leaders are relatively flawless. Thrall? pretty much jesus, saves the world and still acts like he's a normal sob. Vol'jin? AKA thralls lapdog and such acts exactly as he does, honestly very little flaws with him as well. Cairne? Basicly the most ideal honorable warrior, and his son has followed in his footsteps. You can say what you want about these guys history, but it really doesnt mater. It's what they've become, honestly these guys are ideal leaders and pretty much useless in a game that takes aggression as it's primary method of fun.


Thrall is the savior of his people, but he obviously suffers from flawed judgement. Otherwise the Horde would not have gotten to the state where Garrosh is in charge and the Horde ie breaking apart.

Vol'jin does his own thing, wouldn't cal him a lap dog, and has no issues going out and recruiting whomever he needs to to help on something (aka the last troll dungeons). Pragmatic but lets his temper get the best of him obviously when speaking with Garrosh.

Baine can't decide whether he's a pacifict that would let his people suffer and die rather than fix a problem, or a warrior who's gonan do what Garrosh tells him to do then pout about it later.

Aggression is fine, but Garrosh went from "we need food, water and building materials" to "World Domination for the lulz" really quick.
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90 Human Mage
13505
12/08/2012 09:15 PMPosted by Issaic
No dude Garrosh CAN NOT BE REDEEMED. What you're asking is stupid.

And you miss they entire point. No one is arguing he can be redeemed as of now, I'm saying as of THIS patch he was made the absolute villain just because the community !@#$%ed about him last patch.


Talking to the other guy. He is actually suggesting he be redeemed.
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90 Human Warrior
11695
No dude Garrosh CAN NOT BE REDEEMED. What you're asking is stupid.

And you miss they entire point. No one is arguing he can be redeemed as of now, I'm saying as of THIS patch he was made the absolute villain just because the community !@#$%ed about him last patch.


Well technically I was putting out an hypothetical scenario where blizzard could redeem him. And all I got in response was a big NO WAI MAN! Point is: I agree with your OP.

My bottom line is this:

I think characters like Garrosh that are allowed to flourish; produce more for the game's story than taking away from it.
Edited by Martiggan on 12/8/2012 9:49 PM PST
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90 Human Mage
13505
12/08/2012 09:47 PMPosted by Martiggan

And you miss they entire point. No one is arguing he can be redeemed as of now, I'm saying as of THIS patch he was made the absolute villain just because the community !@#$%ed about him last patch.


Well technically I was putting out an hypothetical scenario where blizzard could redeem him. And all I got in response was a big NO WAI MAN! Point is: I agree with your OP.

My bottom line is this:

I think characters like Garrosh that are allowed to flourish; produce more for the game's story than taking away from it.


Hah......except the whole Horde follows him and nobody does anything else so the Horde thus becomes what Garrosh is. I'm saying no because you think more Sylvanas characters are needed in the Alliance. NO they are not.
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90 Pandaren Monk
7065
Garrosh has clearly been an experiment.. To try to say "NO THIS WAS ALL A PLAN" is just.. Flawed.. If this was all a plan, they(Blizzard) did a horrible job executing it, which we know they can execute better through other character's development.

I mean, really look at it.

B.C.
"OH MY GOSH! GROM HAD A SON! BUT HES BEING SUCH A WIMP!"

WotLK
"WHY ISNT GARROSH BEING THIS GREAT LEADER YET?"

Cata
"GARROSH IS BEING TOO AGGRESSIVE AGAINST EVERYONE!"

Mists
"GARROSH IS TOO FAR MAN"

Now, with all that being the norm among the forums (Which is one of the ways Blizzard gets input/feedback), what makes you think Garrosh's sudden personality swings can be explained? There is no real explanation for it all other than half arsed explanations.

To try to say the Community hasn't had an impact on Garrosh is completely flawed, and the Community has spoken. We lost two characters with great potential Horde side (Dranosh and Garrosh soon), and I hate to say it, but because Blizzard listened to the community.

They listened to the same community that whines when their class isn't completely over powered. Or their faction isn't completely over powered. Or their not getting exactly what they want. This is the flaw.. I can only hope if this does go back to having Thrall as leader, or Vol'jin, or whatever, that Blizzard won't really give two craps about the communities ideas in regards to a faction leader.
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90 Human Warrior
11695


Hah......except the whole Horde follows him and nobody does anything else so the Horde thus becomes what Garrosh is. I'm saying no because you think more Sylvanas characters are needed in the Alliance. NO they are not.


I don't understand what your trying to say here.
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90 Human Warlock
5390
12/08/2012 09:52 PMPosted by Valius
I'm saying no because you think more Sylvanas characters are needed in the Alliance. NO they are not.


You people won't be happy until warlocks and death knights are removed the Alliance, and they're declared the ultimate good guys who can do no wrong, will you?
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90 Human Mage
13505
I'm saying no because you think more Sylvanas characters are needed in the Alliance. NO they are not.


You people won't be happy until warlocks and death knights are removed the Alliance, and they're declared the ultimate good guys who can do no wrong, will you?


Yeah........I totally want the removal of Death Knights and Warlocks.

TOTALLY BRO

I don't understand what your trying to say here.


Nearly the whole Horde supports Garrosh.
Edited by Valius on 12/8/2012 10:09 PM PST
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90 Human Warrior
11695
[quote][quote]

Nearly the whole Horde supports Garrosh.


No, not really. And it has sparked tons of discussion and activity because he's impulsive and motivated. No one gives a damn about guys like Thrall right now other than what he would of done in the situation. He's still an all powerful Shaman. He's got the looks and skills. But hes a boring dead end. He's always gona be able to do the right thing.

Goody goodies like him, Tirion, Malfurion, Anduin, etc etc: They are only as good as their villian. And in the faction conflict, no one should be a villain. (except in each others eyes) These white knights lose their luster and shine because they are never forced to make a decision between the lesser of two evils. They are mary sues. Worthless without a comic-book bad guy equivalent.

Garrosh is treading a dark and risky road, but what if he actually pulls his plan off with the Devine Bell and bring great prosperity to his people without damning them like his father did with the Legion? So what if he hurts his enemies, they are his enemies.... yeah he stepped on a lot of toes. He could bring progress. And progress is interesting, even if its not in your interest.
Edited by Martiggan on 12/8/2012 11:04 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
10315
There are real life leaders far worse than Garrosh... It's intersting that finaly we are getting one of the major leaders who is not really a Hero...

I don't like Garrosh as a "person"... I mean, if I were my character I would hate him with passion... XD But as "a real guy" I find him a cool and a very hateable villain... Heck, I wanna kill him now... Seriously, sometimes I just target him and click smite... Too soon. Not yet. But eventually...


Gul'Dan? Blackhand? Orgrim? What about them? They were pretty similar in Garrosh mentality.


Whats the commonality there? Oh, all dead.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
14910
I don't think the community is geninuely very critical of characters in general.
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12/09/2012 03:04 AMPosted by Cbredbeard
I don't think the community is geninuely very critical of characters in general.

You kidding me? there literally 100's of bash threads starting at the beta of cata.
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90 Tauren Druid
7180
Garrosh has clearly been an experiment.. To try to say "NO THIS WAS ALL A PLAN" is just.. Flawed.. If this was all a plan, they(Blizzard) did a horrible job executing it, which we know they can execute better through other character's development.

I mean, really look at it.

B.C.
"OH MY GOSH! GROM HAD A SON! BUT HES BEING SUCH A WIMP!"

WotLK
"WHY ISNT GARROSH BEING THIS GREAT LEADER YET?"

Cata
"GARROSH IS BEING TOO AGGRESSIVE AGAINST EVERYONE!"

Mists
"GARROSH IS TOO FAR MAN"


I have an issue with this list you made. All of it is correct except that critical one in the middle, WotLK, where it was Saurfang that was seen as the true leader of the offensive and Garrosh was a huge idiot. One of the very first questlines you even get in Borean Tundra as Horde is you covering for Garrosh's inadequacies, and when one of those gets you sent to a certain death Saurfang bails you out.

Garrosh is a moron. He gave a very bad impression right at the start of Northrend, he made himself out an even bigger idiot at the start of Twilight Highlands, and now he's just a colossal idiot in Pandaria. If anything, Blizzard has been very consistent about writing Garrosh as being an idiot.
Edited by Seiryu on 12/9/2012 10:58 PM PST
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90 Dwarf Paladin
14910
12/09/2012 11:41 AMPosted by Issaic
I don't think the community is geninuely very critical of characters in general.

You kidding me? there literally 100's of bash threads starting at the beta of cata.


Maybe I should have said fairly instead? I don't think most people look at the characters, look at the context and situations they are in, and draw conclusions. There's also alot of stuff that's glossed over and not taken into account, intentionally or not.
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