Game Director Tom Chilton on Balance & PvP

90 Draenei Shaman
10625
More pillow talk, let's see some results and actual changes that have ACTUAL EFFECTS ON THE GAMEPLAY.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6415
I quit WoW during WotLK, because the insane amount of burst made PvP a matter of latency, lag and luck. I came back during Cata and enjoyed a lot as an affliction warlock, because it was more about longevity and strategy.

Now the PvP feels worse than WotLK.


Funny thing is cata, with a few exceptions, had exceptionally balanced PvP that I really enjoyed. I play on 250ms latency (Western Australia) at the least and it were nice to actually have a chance to plan and strategise, as opposed to being on the back foot because I'm playing against some yank on 60ms or less and the slightest slip-up might ruin me.

Good interview, although I disdain the "we don't want to overdo things" since, well, you can go one direction, reassess and get a pretty accurate picture of how you can go in the other direction. I mean it's harder than expected playing with numbers since they effect not only PvP, they also affect PvE and assessing changes within a metagame is actually pretty damned hard. That said, when something is obviously a sore thumb (gag order springs to mind) it can be fixed pretty quickly, or even toned down just enough to make it less unacceptable until you can get an accurate picture of where the game stands.

So basically, game is harder to balance than you'd think, some things need obvious changes (mostly they received them) and Tom Chilton's interview basically hit the nail on the head. Now to take away Feral's ability to shift out of roots, just like in cata. Since absurd outliers that violate your design direction (wanting roots to be meaningful) don't really do a system, or the players, any justice whatsoever.

Oh and on the note of cata PvP:

They've cleaned this game up a lot. A great deal of the hideously obnoxious mechanics (like Fire Blast stun, Mana Burn, Hungering Cold) have gone, a number of the stupid outliers have gone (although some, like root shift, have returned, they should go too when burst is toned down) and that makes me happy. This game is neater and cleaner than ever before, more streamlined and playable (mostly) with a simpler, more clear-cut system (eg. resilience in wrath compared to resilience now), which allows players to focus more and more on the actual player vs player mechanics. Sometimes more is not better, it's far worse - and I'm glad that they streamlined and improved a lot of crap - class and general game mechanics.
Edited by Anurakis on 12/10/2012 6:27 PM PST
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90 Tauren Druid
5965
12/09/2012 05:37 AMPosted by Shaftyzx
Druids are unkillable by melee unless the druid is not paying attention. A blink and vanish on a 30 second cooldown? Remove the vanish aspect of it and it would be balanced. It's really as simple as that. In the interview Kalgan specifically states that many class developers envision an ability being used defensively when often it gets used offensively. This is another perfect example of that. Druids blink/stealth -> pounce -> cyclone or disorienting roar to the other healer without any risk to themselves, and without the other healer having any way to avoid it.


Please lrn to pvp before you post again
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90 Tauren Death Knight
7240
insider gives an indepth interview on pvp 2 days ago...

and the pvp 'faithful' can't muster more then 25 posts

not good.
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90 Night Elf Druid
4030
Druids are unkillable? I can tell you otherwise. I die fairly easily. In fact, as has been the case for a long time now Moonkins are by far the weakest 1v1 PVP char in the game. And the stealth usually doesn't work anyway because of all the dots on me. It might be used offensively by cats, but definitely not by Moonkins or Restos.

Now you want to talk about OP how about holy palis? My arcane mage and a hunter tried for six or seven minutes to kill a holy pali in AB the other day. We finally just gave up and let him go. He was still at full health and full mana. And yes, I was spellstealing and silencing as often as I could, but it really didn't matter. Too easy to instant heal himself at virtually no cost. Now granted, my mage doesn't have the best of gear yet, but even so, we never even got him down to half health.

When my druid can last half that long, even my resto druid, then people can start complaining.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
5335
Current pvp feels like we combined the crazy cc of TBC (back then there were no DR on stuns and fear rarely broke) with the crazy damage of WOTLK.

First they need to do is fix burst, It is too high for pretty much everyclass so remove or lower pvp power (this does not effect pve at all) and then look at some spells like frostbomb and chaos bolt and see if they need further reduction.

After that tackle cc maybe make all cc share one DR or at least more cc share DR's then now.
Edited by Shadowpowerz on 12/11/2012 3:23 PM PST
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90 Goblin Hunter
hi
8245
With the recent change in pvp trink, the lack of burst on some specs like surv,mm, sub, assassin, affliction, fury, arcane, MW, unholy has finnaly been resolve. This change certainly balanced this game. /sarcasm

Any1 thinks this is just another bandaid solution?
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6 Night Elf Druid
0
Didn't they say they wanted to lower the amount of cc and burst in pvp when promoting MoP? Its funny how they did just the opposite.

There are a ton of issues, but they seem to go over most of the developers heads. They need to seriously rethink things. Each class should have ONE cc and give it a huge cd. Make it a VERY strategic and important move. Playing on my lock and priest years ago I used to get so pissed that rogues had so much cc. Now all classes have too many cc. Its not fun. Its frustrating. Most players don't like it. When cc is brought up however, blizzard comments about "instant cast" cc. Yeah instant cast sucks, but thats only part of the problem. There is just too much crowd control.

Burst... its been an issue for what seems like forever. To make pvp weapons and trinkets more appealing they add pvp power.... So more pvp power to classes that can already do too much damage too quickly?

Healing. All of 5.0 and now probably all of 5.1 poor Disc Priests. They have no place in arena or rbgs. At least monks are fairly good in rbgs.

You know, with as many beta testers as they had and all the time they had to test things out, you would have thought there would be a bit more balance. Really does show that pvp was forgotten or just plain old skipped over during development.
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90 Human Paladin
5785
He lied about no more blanket nerfs btw.
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90 Orc Warlock
4505
Why not just place a throttle on PVP healing and damage.

too burst damage is way too high (being killed in arena in <1GCD is bad)
too much instant CC
too much healing
too much infinite mana healers

For a casual player.....
Blowing up a person in 1s gets boring when its common
Overwhelming the opposition in a BG becomes boring when its common
Getting killed over and over easily becomse frustrating
Getting slaughtered in a BG due to a balance of healers to DPS or the mixed combo of classes vs counter classes is frustration

When BGs and arena actually took time to play with tactics and strategies that involved more than "he who clicks fastest and has the most HUDs wins" it was fun. I always found BGs and Arenas fun at the start of an expansion because gear was low, damage was low, and there was more fun. You can brag how you used terrain and moving, taking time to beat an opponent.

When most BGs were close it was very satisfying even when you lost you could win by having the most kills, HKs, or heals. It was a personal victory.

"when a game has a certain level of anxiety it is a good game" - Bill Clinton (a similar statement. Right now WoW PVP has a frustration anxiety only.

You lose customers by keeping them bored or frustrated and you are doing both at the moment. Blowing up people in 3s for me isnt fun, its dull. Losing a BG 50 kills to zero kills and having to stay dead and go get coffee because the other side is so more overpowered than you due to matchups, gear, and specs is frustrating.

I do game design myself and I can't imagine how you thought making classes rediculously powerful was a good idea?! Just on a psychological level I know thats bad.

Take the hit, fix the system. Fine you lose some players now that might whine or complain but you will gain more if you adjust. Put a throttle on PVP, its not that hard. At least test out the idea on the PTRs. Ask the community, take a survey. I think you will find people will like that.

I play PVP not to see a 200k crit, I play it to have fun and use strategy and tactics.

I'm glad you nerfed Chaos Wave for demo. I was killing 3 at a time in a BG from Full to zero in 3s. That was cool the 1st time. Not interesting the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th time.

So my question... Why not just put a PVP throttle on damage and healing when fighting a player or his pet?!?!?!
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mages now do more dmg on ice lance then on frostbomb on arenas.
dont even try to say that mages can wait till it explode cuz any healers can dispel it before it happens

that is ok since ice lance is insta and frostbomb has 1.4 seconds cast.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
5630
mages now do more dmg on ice lance then on frostbomb on arenas.
dont even try to say that mages can wait till it explode cuz any healers can dispel it before it happens
It's called CC, plus the cast time is very short.
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90 Orc Shaman
4715
Now that I have your attention:

Where are our Skirmishes?


I agree put them in along with wargames. How hard is it to give players something little like that
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90 Dwarf Mage
14910
So I'm curious... How does battleground popularity stand with players learning that they can toggle a select few off?

Does having this feedback give you an idea of what works and what doesn't work?

Do you plan on improving or adjusting one's that are overwhelmingly unpopular?
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90 Night Elf Hunter
6175
pvp would be more strategic and balanced if it were more basic. at the moment pvp feels saturated.
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90 Tauren Druid
12320
Things I want to see addressed:

General:
1. The absurd amount of instant cast CC in the game right now that is eventually unavoidable, once we need to pop out from LoS to heal our team mates.
2. How long the CC chains can last. Aka, please look into adding more diminishing returns. There have been times where I've been CC'd and asking myself "Can I please just play this game?" (Inb4 "where are your team mates?" Multi-target CC happens. They can't be able to peel 100% of the time. Most of the time, yes. But not every time.)
3. Burst is still ridiculous. The PVP community has been saying it for a long time.

Druid related:
The 30% hotfix nerf to healing hurts our HoT spells. We have no resistance to purges, and it takes 5 GCDs to get full hots rolling. with the new debuff adjustment, choosing to spend a GCD on CC instead of healing feels riskier than ever. Are there any plans to add purge resistance? (Glyph, talent, or otherwise)
Also, I feel sorry for monks and priests. They were already having a rough time, but this is just crazy. :(

Other:
Please give us arena skirmishes back. I want to try new comps without having to find 3 people to wargame.
Edited by Oakpaw on 12/15/2012 12:36 PM PST
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65 Blood Elf Death Knight
640
Well let see the reason they are losing subs is blizzard is lazy the raids are so easy now there a joke MOP was such a bad expiation that's its not even funny. Pvp is so unbalanced and always favors the alliance. This is why about 90% of horde PVE's because BG are always gear for the alliance to win. so people do the raids , get there pvp gear get bored and quit.in a short time. As lazy as they have been really makes you think what will happen if something good dose come out competition How much sub will they lose then. unless they then decide to not half !@# there games then. i mean come on let me honest here D3 look at how half $%^ that game is... just piss me off how down hill Blizzard is now compare to how good it use to be.... =(
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