"Never Meant To Do All of Them Every Day"

(Locked)

90 Human Priest
12900
12/07/2012 01:11 PMPosted by Hetchy
The daily questing model is so played out and uninspired; we get it.
We get it, but apparently Blizzard doesn't get it; hence more dailies in our future.
90 Blood Elf Priest
15285
12/07/2012 01:14 PMPosted by Houndstooth
Now if each person has 1 ring with an additional 100 of their primary stat, then that's essentially 25000 of a primary stat.


25*100 = 25,000?
90 Undead Mage
9445
Hey. I haven't read the whole post, just skimmed the first few posts and wanted to add that though I may be terrible at math I think 25x100 = 2,500. Not 25,000.

Sorry if someone has mentioned this already ... <.<
90 Undead Mage
9445
Damn it all, Blackgoddess!
5 Undead Warlock
0
I'm surprised this hasn't been made into a comic by like the Daily Blink or someone, yet.

Basically, it would be a Shado-Pan quartermaster getting mauled by a bunch of those Sra'thik (the bug things you kill a lot) when suddenly he sees an adventurer walking by. So he yells to the adventurer, "Hey there grand adventurer, would you care for some reputation and AMAZING gear? All you have to do is kill these here Sra'thik."

The adventurer would reply "WOULD I EVER!!!" As he's charging over to the Shado-Pan guy to help out, Jaluu the Generous (the Golden Lotus quartermaster) pokes his head out from behind a nearby tree and glares at the adventurer. So the adventurer stops in his tracks with a terrified look on his face and says "Oh sorry, but uh... I'm suddenly busy. BYE!"
90 Draenei Death Knight
12690
Pre-Mist : "WHAAAAA! Blizzard!!! Us non-raiders want ways of earning phat loots without doing the content in the game meant to be played in an MMO!!! We just don't have time to spend "X" hours on "Y" number of days!! Give us what we pay for!"

Post-Mist: "WHAAAAA! Blizzard!! You gave us quest we can do at anytime we can play that take little time to complete, but we have to constantly do them!! WHAAAA Why don't you just hand me loot because I pay $15 a month also!"

Seriously, you whiners need to shut up. You got what you wanted, content that you can do, anytime you want, you get valor and other rewards, reputation that leads to buying gear, and you get gear! What else can Blizzard do that isn't practically just handing you the !@#$ as soon as you log in each day?


Pst! Locking valor gear behind rep doesn't make it phat loots. All the other rewards already existed in previous expacs. All they did was lock up what was formerly rep free into reps then locked some of those reps behind the most god awful rep to ever be released in the game. We gained nothing from this change as we still need to grind valor in scenarios and heroics as the amount we gain from dailies is lackluster at best. So really the only changes have been for the worst.

So tell us again how we got awesome brand new things? I'm sure 5 vp as a reward will put us whiners in our places!

Love,
Guy with tons of exalted reps and still hates the system
90 Blood Elf Priest
15285
The funny thing is it would take just as much, if not more, grinding to exalted with every rep using tabards.

For those who say I don't know which rep to grind first. You can only grind rep with one faction at the time wearing tabards.

You don't want to repeat something once a day but you'll do the same thing multiple times daily? Makes no sense to me.

You don't have time to do dailies but you have time to grind dungeons? Again this makes no sense. Think about it 15 minutes in a dungeon or 15 minute doing dailies is still 15 minutes.

I have an idea. Let people have their tabards but, as soon as an rep for any faction is gained using one, your locked out of rep for all factions dailies for that week. The reverse would also be true. I mean after all you hate dailies so it shouldn't matter right?
Edited by Blackgoddess on 12/8/2012 8:27 AM PST
90 Draenei Priest
9880
12/08/2012 08:26 AMPosted by Blackgoddess
You don't want to repeat something once a day but you'll do the same thing multiple times daily? Makes no sense to me.


No, I'll do the same thing multiple times on a given day if I so choose. Most days I won't choose to do the same thing multiple times, but some days I will be in the mood and enjoy it.

Dailies are weird because they assume I'll enjoy the same thing today as I will tomorrow, and that I'll enjoy it for a specific amount of time and no more than that. They assume that my mood for entertainment is a constant. Some days I want to watch insanely stupid comedies, other days I want to watch action movies or a good drama. Thank God TV was smart enough to give us DVRs. I just wish WoW would let us choose what we want to do and when we want to do it like pretty much everything else in the world is moving towards.
90 Human Priest
13570
I can't imagine a world where 1 ring and/or 1 necklace is make or break for killing a raid boss. So, I'm not sure who "had" to do it.
Then again I don't raid.


Enrage timers.

One piece of gear can, and often is, the difference between a kill and a wipe.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
13110
No, I'll do the same thing multiple times on a given day if I so choose. Most days I won't choose to do the same thing multiple times, but some days I will be in the mood and enjoy it.

Dailies are weird because they assume I'll enjoy the same thing today as I will tomorrow, and that I'll enjoy it for a specific amount of time and no more than that. They assume that my mood for entertainment is a constant. Some days I want to watch insanely stupid comedies, other days I want to watch action movies or a good drama. Thank God TV was smart enough to give us DVRs. I just wish WoW would let us choose what we want to do and when we want to do it like pretty much everything else in the world is moving towards.

Thing is that WoW DOES let you choose what you want to do and when you want to do it, but only within reason. You don't want to do dailies, then you don't have to do dailies. If you want the reputation, then yes, you have to do dailies... but there is and has always been some form of a barrier on what you can and cannot do in order to accomplish something in the game. Before they made badge/point gear, if someone wanted epic gear, they HAD to raid (or get real real lucky on RNG for those rare drops). Once they made badge/point gear, if you wanted that gear you HAD to do heroics/raids. When they had attunements, if someone wanted to raid, then they HAD to do the attunement quests. For certain profession patterns in expansions past (at least Vanilla and TBC), if you wanted to get the patterns you HAD to either raid or farm rep (depending on the pattern). But all of those things are your choice for if you want to do them or not. I personally enjoy dailies, but some days I don't feel like doing them so I don't. I understand that means I won't get rep, but that's my choice. Thing is, they've made a lot of different options now for what you can do in order to progress your character... but people want to progress faster. If they're wiping at 1% on a heroic boss, they feel like they HAVE to do dailies to get VP gear, when they also have the option of continuing to do normal mode until they get more drops. But that's not enough of a "choice" for them, because they don't want to fall behind on the progression competition.

It's all a choice: you don't want to do dailies? Don't do them. There are other gearing options for you, even if they might take longer or rely on RNG to get. Once you start to complain that the other options take too long, it's no longer a question of whether you have to do dailies or don't have to do them. It's a complaint based on your (generalized, not you specifically) desire to progress as fast as possible, which is not a fault of the game, but your own personal desires.
90 Draenei Priest
9880
12/08/2012 09:37 AMPosted by Thingolo
Thing is that WoW DOES let you choose what you want to do and when you want to do it, but only within reason.


I can't even grind rep with a given faction for more than 10-15 minutes if I feel in the mood. How is that letting me do what I want? And if I don't do dailies today, I can never make up that lost ground later. How is that letting me do things when I want? What you said only makes sense if "within reason" is defined as for 10-15 minutes each and every day or you get punished. Maybe that's reasonable to you, but it seems silly to me.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
13110
12/08/2012 10:38 AMPosted by Totemless
I can't even grind rep with a given faction for more than 10-15 minutes if I feel in the mood. How is that letting me do what I want? And if I don't do dailies today, I can never make up that lost ground later. How is that letting me do things when I want? What you said only makes sense if "within reason" is defined as for 10-15 minutes each and every day or you get punished. Maybe that's reasonable to you, but it seems silly to me.

How are you being punished? Because it'll take you a day longer to cap your rep? Because as it turns out, the rep isn't required to be able to progress in the game.

And I turn back, once again, to the statement that THIS ISN'T ANY DIFFERENT THAN THE GAME HAS ALWAYS BEEN! If I don't have time to raid and do dungeons one week, I can never get back that lost valor. If you weren't able to go with your guild, you'll never get back those chances at loot. If I'm not able to log in for a holiday event, I can't get that back and I'll have to wait another year. If I don't have time to cap my valor, or get my charms, or anything in the game that has a time restriction, I can't ever ever ever get that time back. It's always been like that, since they put in raid lockouts in the game.

Yes, the game has restrictions... it has always had restrictions. Yes, if you don't do something, you can't get that time back, but why is it that it's dailies that peeve you off and not all the other restrictions that the game has? You want the rep? Do the dailies. You want JP? Run dungeons. You want conquest? Do PvP. It's not a free for all game where you get to choose your reward for what you do, THAT seems not only silly, but absurd to me.

I want heroic raid level gear, but if I don't want to do heroic raids because I don't like that level of difficulty, then why is there not another option for me to get heroic raid level gear? See how absurd that sounds? It's the same thing. The game has restrictions set in place for different things... but the key is that YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A SINGLE PIECE OF REP GEAR!

And you want options? For at least three of the factions, you HAVE options, you just don't want to do them. Farm keys. Farm shards. Farm eggs (I know, no gear from CS, but the mount is sweet). You can do that if you choose, but you don't want to because it's a low drop rate and take forever.
I think it is fair. 502 heroic gear is gated behind the heroic raids. I have to do hheroic raids to get them. 489 gear is gated behind rep. Now those "wellfare" epics are no t so wellfare anymore.
100 Human Priest
19475
First off, all the VP gear is unlocked at revered. So, once you get revered Golden Lotus, then you have 0 reason to continue doing those
1) There was a neck available from Klaxxi at honored.
2) If the ring was so needed, then farming shards was an option. So, again, it goes back to you wanted the *faster* way, and you chose to ignore the other options.


Except the ring/neck at exalted for Klaxxi/Lotus didn't cost Valor. So spending Valor on the neck or a ring was silly because you could get one that didn't cost a weekly currency. In other words, getting the ring and neck saved you 2500 Valor that you could use to buy other Valor items.

Also, there is a point at which people think it's crazy to do something. If you got 1 valor per random heroic once you hit the 1000 weekly cap...no one would continue to do them to grind valor unless they were like 5 off from an item. Likewise, the shards, assuming a 10% drop rate (which is the highest listed on Wowhead), gave something like 1-1.25 rep kill mob kill. That's less than grinding out the Classic goblin reps.

I've actually discussed this concept here: http://balkothsword.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-ring-vendor-on-optional.html

12/07/2012 06:43 PMPosted by Thingolo
Well, it means that you, at most, had 3 weeks of raiding and that *huge* amount of dailies before hitting exalted, and considering the first week and part of the second you would not have had AC and SP unlocked, you can't include them.


Except we were also leveling and spamming heroics to get gear.

Also, since food prices were obscene, we were also doing Tillers, though technically we could have just spent far more gold to get the food.

Are you kidding? The need for reputation grinding, especially for crafters was much MUCH more important in TBC and Vanilla

Not to mention that to get INTO heroics, you had to farm rep, up to revered until they nerfed it half way through the expansion. SO saying it's "never" been like this is a flat faced lie.


How many those involved daily quests? Hint: none.

How many of those had any kind of daily gated reputation? Hint: none.

How many could you spam whenever you want to max out your rep? Hint: all.

We've *never* had raid gear locked behind daily reputation caps. Ever. In the past, if you really wanted the item, you could grind it out as quickly or as slowly as you wanted. And you weren't punished for missing a day, didn't matter if you spent four hours on one day or two hours each on two days.

12/07/2012 06:43 PMPosted by Thingolo
No, they get it. Which is why they are stating that they wish it hadn't been what happened. But the problem becomes "How do you provide rewards that matter without making it seem mandatory for guilds that do top end progression?


No, they claimed it was a matter of poor communication.

Here's a simple solution that's already been mentioned in the thread: time gate them like the raids. The people the dailies are aimed at likely aren't going to be leveling in a day or two, and even then they have plenty of heroics to do. If the rewards aren't available until after the top, say, 1000 guilds would already have the equivalent, it wouldn't have been a problem.

12/07/2012 06:43 PMPosted by Thingolo
Did you play BC? You got one badge per boss, but there was a daily lockout, just like raids had a weekly lockout.


Oh yes. In fact, I got realm firsts for probably every single heroic.

But you also needed far less badges. I think I only used two items (Orb of the Soul-Eater offhand and Icon of the Silver Crescent trinket). The game has vastly changed since then, but regardless you were never going to manage to do every single heroic in a single day, so there was no effective cap.

12/07/2012 06:43 PMPosted by Thingolo
Which is not something they will do, because they don't want players to feel like progression raiding guilds get a 1-up on everyone simply because they are heroic progression raiders.


How is that a 1-up? "Save your valor and you can buy several 489 items if you've been grinding rep two months into the expansion."

12/07/2012 06:43 PMPosted by Thingolo
BUt if it hadn't been the dailies, it would have been something else.


The top 20 or whatever guilds in the world ALWAYS do multiple runs the first week of normals. That's always been the case. The dailies are IN ADDITION to that.

12/07/2012 06:43 PMPosted by Thingolo
We're not talking about removing what it's balanced behind, we're talking about trying to quicken the progression of reaching that balancing point.


You're saying "Dailies are optional because you can eventually get enough gear to beat the bosses without the valor items."

I'm saying "Flasks are optional because you can eventually get enough gear to beat the bosses without the stat bonus."

Imagine if flasks were assumed but cost 5000g each. Don't you think a lot of guilds (overall) would skip them and just wait for gear to drop?

12/07/2012 06:43 PMPosted by Thingolo
No, because you cannot physically enter LFR without the appropriate gear level. No matter what you do, no matter which guild you are in, no matter how much or little you play, if you don't have the right gear level (with or without cheating the system), it is impossible to enter LFR


It is impossible to beat Heroic Gara'jal in all 450 gear. I'm 99% sure it's impossible to beat Heroic Gara'jal in all 463 gear. Literally mathematically impossible, you simply cannot put out the DPS.

12/07/2012 06:43 PMPosted by Thingolo
But there is also a max cap on valor. If you are working on your reputations so you can get that gear level up, and you hit your max cap, but you haven't unlocked a new piece of valor gear to buy yet, what are you doing to do with those VPs that you missed? Oh yeah, you'll lose them.


You had three weeks before you'd max Valor. By that time you'd, at a minimum, have revered Klaxxi/Lotus and honored Shado/August. Probably at least revered with all, but I'm not 100% sure on that. So you might have to buy one valor item by week three, but by week four you'd have all of them unlocked.

12/07/2012 07:06 PMPosted by Arkthan
However, if you just blew through the dailies with your fellow guildies to insure you all had access to the rewards you would have been done with dailies in 4 weeks. In those 4 weeks you could have bought 2 or 3 pieces with your valor. Im sure the number of times those two pieces made a wipe or not difference were few.


I did have all the dailies done in 3-3.5 weeks.

And you would be incorrect, sir, Heroic Gara'jal with zero epic weapons says hello. Was totally fun wiping <1%. On our kill, he had literally raised his arm to wipe us, we were microseconds away from dying.

12/07/2012 07:06 PMPosted by Arkthan
You are one of the few people posting who have a reason to complain since it actually affects you. The problem with the most of the people who complain about dailies only do LFR. They cant get their easy purples anymore, arent patient enough to wait for LFR drops, and wont comit to a real raid guild. If they spent half the effort on dailies that they spent crying on forums, they would be done for the day.


True enough.

12/07/2012 07:23 PMPosted by Kungbrew
Just because a quest "can" be completed every day doesn't mean that it is intended that every single daily quest be done every single day, just that they are available to do so.


Except if you don't do it you fall behind anyone who does, and you can't catch up. Not until you're both revered/exalted, at least.

12/07/2012 07:52 PMPosted by Alelsa
By all the logic I've seen quoted as to why this is bad for top end progression guilds, the issue is that it gives upgrades, is doable, and is something they don't want to do. This pretty much translates as "other people can't have stuff because we'll feel we need it too", and that's pretty much the most selfish attitude I can imagine.


Incorrect.

We just want our success in raiding to be determined by how well we do in raiding. Not in grinding PvP gear. Not in doing daily quests.

We don't want to set up a huge arms race that's worse than it already is.

12/08/2012 03:56 AMPosted by Ðrave
That kind of min/maxing and pushing people to do every quest every day is only required if you're trying to be cutting edge progression raiders... and if you ARE trying to be that, then yes, it does and should take a lot of work and dedication.


You don't think it takes a lot of work and dedication to level and gear and be ready for raids within a week?

You don't think it takes a lot of work and dedication to wipe hundreds of times?

We're fine with a lot of work in dedication. We just want it to be done, y'know, in raids.

12/08/2012 03:56 AMPosted by Ðrave
Pretty much what I'm hearing from people is "I want to be able to compete with the top guilds in the world but I don't want to spend as much time playing as they do."


Say what? Those guilds raid like 8 hours a week 6+ days a week. My guild, at least, is trying to compete with that.

12/08/2012 03:56 AMPosted by Ðrave
If they weren't doing dailies, they'd be doing something else to squeeze every last piece of gear out of the game between raids. It's what they do, that's why they're the best. You can't expect to only log on for the raids and still be up with the top dogs.


What did they do outside of raids during t11? How about t12? How about t13?

12/08/2012 06:26 AMPosted by Thingolo
But if that's the case, then going back and doing the raid on normal one more week, instead of spending the week wiping at 1%, could potentially (unless RNG is just awful for the entire group) give upgrades just the same, allowing them to not wipe at 1%.


Except that's a week falling behind other guilds. Which hurts ranking. Which hurts recruitment.

12/08/2012 06:46 AMPosted by Eloderung
They are not mandatory. They are not even that useful. You only needed to grind 1-2 to revered, and that was it. That only took a couple of weeks to do. I'm only finishing them up because I like vanity.


We're talking about the first month of the expansion. Not the current situation.

Klaxxi/GL already sell necklace ring at honored. Shieldwaal also has a VP ring. So it is not necessary to get any faction to exalted for that.


Those cost valor, exalted GL/Klaxxi don't. Spending valor on those means not being able to spend valor on something else. You're giving up a valor item overall by buying ring/neck with valor.

12/08/2012 07:21 AMPosted by Nyariá
Dude, I just wanna say your name is awesome, but In the name of the people of water, I WILL... freeze / Drown you to death.


Thanks!

My favorite was Order, personally. Though Water Mage with Staff of Drowning was pretty crazy.

12/08/2012 08:26 AMPosted by Blackgoddess
You don't want to repeat something once a day but you'll do the same thing multiple times daily? Makes no sense to me.


You could grind out reputation as quickly or as slowly as you wanted with tabards. And you weren't punished for skipping a day. Plus, you could grind out the rep *only when you needed it* since there was no cap on reputation.

12/08/2012 10:51 AMPosted by Thingolo
And I turn back, once again, to the statement that THIS ISN'T ANY DIFFERENT THAN THE GAME HAS ALWAYS BEEN! If I don't have time to raid and do dungeons one week, I can never get back that lost valor. If you weren't able to go with your guild, you'll never get back those chances at loot.


Except there's a difference between having to do X amount of stuff every day and 7X stuff during an entire week. If you're busy for a few days, you can still do the weekly stuff.

Also, SOMEONE in your guild most likely got the loot that dropped, so it was put to use, not wasted or lost.
Edited by Balkoth on 12/8/2012 12:12 PM PST
90 Human Priest
7860


As a result, to make sure you have access to the valor item for the gear slot you need, you do have to do every daily every day (or at least the ones for valor rewards and 489 ring/neck).



False.

You can do them every other day. You can do them once a week. You are just seeking to get them as fast as possible. Still not mandatory to do dailies every day.


Please stop waiving this 'not mandatory' flag, it doesn't mean anything. The OP's point is that you really do need to be revered with every faction to make the most sensible and efficient use of your valor tokens - which is to supplement raid drops.
Needing rep for valor gear is silly, especially when a full clear on a raid doesn't even get you valor capped. I dislike that the only way to earn rep now and get valor capped is through dailies. Running dailies in a healing spec if extra dull and I am tired of spending 200-300 gold weeks when I want to respec. I play a healer because I like helping groups more than killing NPC characters.
I also have more time on the weekends, so an epic quest chain or tabards work far better for me, as I can front load rep grinding efforts and/or get some rep pursuing group activities.
I know I am not the only player with little time for dailies, daily or that resents being unable to earn rep healing or tanking in a group.
I prefer getting raiding gear, in a raid - make it possible to loot LFR bosses more than once, if I want to heal multiple runs for a drop and rep, in a silly looking tabard, let me.
Edit: dailies do not make me a better healer, at least in groups I can try UI tweaks and test out stat changes before normal mode/progression raiding.
Edited by Sloe on 12/8/2012 3:26 PM PST
100 Blood Elf Paladin
13110
Except the ring/neck at exalted for Klaxxi/Lotus didn't cost Valor. So spending Valor on the neck or a ring was silly because you could get one that didn't cost a weekly currency. In other words, getting the ring and neck saved you 2500 Valor that you could use to buy other Valor items.

Also, there is a point at which people think it's crazy to do something. If you got 1 valor per random heroic once you hit the 1000 weekly cap...no one would continue to do them to grind valor unless they were like 5 off from an item. Likewise, the shards, assuming a 10% drop rate (which is the highest listed on Wowhead), gave something like 1-1.25 rep kill mob kill. That's less than grinding out the Classic goblin reps.

So again, what you are talking is speed versus required. The option was there, you chose the faster option. If it was so vital that you had the rep capped out as fast as possible to progress as fast as possible, you could have done it. There IS a point at which people think it's crazy to do something, and that point is different for everyone. I think people that do all the dailies every single day are already past that point, you think that someone grinding out rep using shards/keys are crazy. It's completely a matter of perspective.

How many those involved daily quests? Hint: none.

How many of those had any kind of daily gated reputation? Hint: none.

How many could you spam whenever you want to max out your rep? Hint: all.

We've *never* had raid gear locked behind daily reputation caps. Ever. In the past, if you really wanted the item, you could grind it out as quickly or as slowly as you wanted. And you weren't punished for missing a day, didn't matter if you spent four hours on one day or two hours each on two days.

No, it didn't require dailies. Guess what it required? Specific dungeon grinding, with specific caps. You couldn't spam whenever you wanted to max out your rep with every faction because some of them only had one way of getting that rep: via heroic grinding, but those heroics had caps. You couldn't grind out your Thrallmar/Honor Hold rep past revered, because once you completed the heroics you had to wait for the lock. Same with lower city and Shatari (or whatever the Shattrath one was). The only ones that had repeatable turn ins turning TBC was Cenarion and Consortium. And again, they specifically stated that they don't want people to be able to max their rep in a day of mass grinding, so regardless of if it was dailies or something else, they'd be having a cap to prevent that.

But you also needed far less badges. I think I only used two items (Orb of the Soul-Eater offhand and Icon of the Silver Crescent trinket). The game has vastly changed since then, but regardless you were never going to manage to do every single heroic in a single day, so there was no effective cap.

A cap is a cap, regardless. There was a cap based on the number of bosses you could kill. Most gear was in the 40 range during TBC, which means you could have gotten about one a day if you managed to do every single heroic, but as you said that was not likely to ever happen. But that gear was also lower than raid gear. It was the same level as the heroic 5 man epics that dropped. They didn't start making badge gear a supplement to raid gear until the end of TBC with the sunwell badge vendor, then going into WotLK.

How is that a 1-up? "Save your valor and you can buy several 489 items if you've been grinding rep two months into the expansion."

Did you read what I had quoted of yours? You said "Unless you did something like making it so you couldn't get it until two months into the expansion or something." They aren't ever going to do that because it means that there is an added benefit for raiders over non-raiders, which is something they are wanting to avoid now.
The top 20 or whatever guilds in the world ALWAYS do multiple runs the first week of normals. That's always been the case. The dailies are IN ADDITION to that

Again, it's always something. Top guilds are always doing something in addition to raiding to get the extra benefit. In Cata, it was chain running heroics with the tabards in order to get all the rep gear possible and to get the head/shoulder enchants. In MoP it's doing dailies every day to get the max rep possible to have the gear options (whether "free" or not). That's nothing different than before. The only difference now is that instead of it being something you do in one massive streak, it's something you are required to spread out if you want the max benefit.
You're saying "Dailies are optional because you can eventually get enough gear to beat the bosses without the valor items."

I'm saying "Flasks are optional because you can eventually get enough gear to beat the bosses without the stat bonus."

Imagine if flasks were assumed but cost 5000g each. Don't you think a lot of guilds (overall) would skip them and just wait for gear to drop?

No, because what you are talking about is overgearing the raid so you don't need the flask. What I'm talking about is trying to speed up the progression. If a boss is designed and balanced around having an average ilvl of, say, 465 to down, with all the appropriate buffs, and you are gearing up to 475 so you don't need those buffs, you are OVERgearing. But if you are running other things, or continuing on normal, to get to 465, then you've reached the point of what the boss is balanced for.
It is impossible to beat Heroic Gara'jal in all 450 gear. I'm 99% sure it's impossible to beat Heroic Gara'jal in all 463 gear. Literally mathematically impossible, you simply cannot put out the DPS.

Yes, I'm aware of that. What I'm saying, though, is that something like LFR has a flat ilvl restriction to be able to even enter. Of course there are going to be mathmatical restrictions like what you are stating. But I'm talking about the game physically barring you from even entering. If you wanted to be dumb, you could go and try Heroic Gara'jal in all 450 gear. You won't get him down, but the game won't prevent you from trying. But the game will prevent you from trying to get into LFR with 450 gear.
You had three weeks before you'd max Valor. By that time you'd, at a minimum, have revered Klaxxi/Lotus and honored Shado/August. Probably at least revered with all, but I'm not 100% sure on that. So you might have to buy one valor item by week three, but by week four you'd have all of them unlocked.

My comment was in direct response to your comment regarding current gear upgrading. I know that in that first 3 weeks of the expansion the better option would be to buy items with the VP. But let's say upgrades had been an option from the start, and RNG managed in your favor by that week three, so the only items you would have needed woould have been from Shad/August? Would you honestly have not upgraded something instead of wasting a nights worth of VP?
I did have all the dailies done in 3-3.5 weeks.

And you would be incorrect, sir, Heroic Gara'jal with zero epic weapons says hello. Was totally fun wiping <1%. On our kill, he had literally raised his arm to wipe us, we were microseconds away from dying.

So which is it? The weapons or the VP gear? Because if it was the weapons that you needed, then the VP gear wasn't nearly the importance that you're putting on it.

Except that's a week falling behind other guilds. Which hurts ranking. Which hurts recruitment.

Yep, very true. So you have a choice there: do everything possible in the game, whatever it is, to keep your ranking... or get the boss down on normal and get upgrades. It is, once again, your personal desire to be on the leaderboards, not the games limitations, that are creating that. That's your fault (and the fault of other top competitive guilds), not the games fault.
You could grind out reputation as quickly or as slowly as you wanted with tabards. And you weren't punished for skipping a day. Plus, you could grind out the rep *only when you needed it* since there was no cap on reputation.

But that's the one thing they are wanting to avoid: grinding out the rep in a day. They don't want people to do it, period. If it hadn't been dailies, there would have been some sort of "other" cap to prevent you from being able to grind it all out right away. Because be honest: if tabards had been there and you could have maxed in one day, ever competitive guild would have if the rep gear had been the same.
90 Night Elf Druid
8200
489 gear is gated behind rep. Now those "wellfare" epics are no t so wellfare anymore.

Welfare epics came from doing things for less challenge/effort and getting rewards on par with raid level epics that required far more effort. In BC, you could grind BGs for epics or halfheartedly run arenas for better epics and still put in far less effort than it was to raid and the gear was guaranteed. Gear like weapons in particular was considered to be quite the low drop and it was not uncommon for progression raiders to be doing t6 content while still with t4 gear and grinding PVP weapons was far more effective in terms of obtaining gear upgrades. Later on Blizzard removed the easy honor weapons and placed rating requirements on gear to require players to challenge themselves instead of just mindlessly farming their way to gear.
Edited by Noctemtenchi on 12/8/2012 9:59 PM PST
100 Draenei Shaman
16085
12/08/2012 07:54 AMPosted by Totemless
With challenge modes and heroic raids available, you can kind of find a niche of what group content is challenging enough to keep you entertained for a pretty wide spectrum of skill levels.


Challenge modes would be awesome....

If I had a friends list of the same faction competent enough to do them. I sure can't two man them. Most of my friends are Horde. This does not help me any.
100 Orc Warrior
10605
PAce yourself, only do one rep's dailies a day until Exaulted and you shouldn't burn out as fast.
81 Human Warrior
9530
12/08/2012 10:51 AMPosted by Thingolo
I want heroic raid level gear, but if I don't want to do heroic raids because I don't like that level of difficulty, then why is there not another option for me to get heroic raid level gear?


Imagine if you suddenly had to do a rated BG every day to get your malevolent gear. Suddenly, out of the blue, doing arenas only wasn't good enough.

This is how raiders feel. Some people don't want to explore WoW's world so Blizzard tries to force them to.
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