2200(current rating) WW Monk pvp class review

So do you ever use deadly reach ? I actually find it rather useful, more so than leg sweep.

I like to think of it as a 15 sec CD fist of justice or cyclone, even if you land the 4 sec paralyze, its still 4 sec, compared to 5 sec cyclone or 6 fist of justice, with the option to go 8 on a 15 sec cd?


5 second stun will almost always be more useful even if your team has stuns already. 20 yards is basically roll range as it is, and if you wanted to you could also roll at a healer and leg sweep them for another 5 second cc on top of paralysis.

Another major problem is you're putting that entire line of cc (sheep, hex, trap, repentance) on dr for a 4 second cc. Not usually the best move, although sometimes it's worth it.
Edited by Innverse on 12/8/2012 2:58 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
9135
Thanks for the insight into WW arena. I will be leveling a WW monk because of this :)
Edited by Vaelseir on 12/10/2012 6:55 PM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
2760
Bump, im deciding rogue or monk to reroll
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90 Pandaren Monk
6475
This is a very helpful and respectable post. I for one, appreciate the work and time you put into making it! However, if you can get to 2200 as a WW Monk I think its fair to say that you could get there with any class. I still believe we need PvP buffs in order to fill out the middle 1500-1800 range. It really shouldn't be as hard as it is to dish out strong burst. Wasting GCDs on Jab is entirely too impractical and while I do not know a fix for this, it needs to be changed.

Wearing leather was supposed to mean high burst and utility in exchange for survivability. Instead we got high utility with low burst. While I believe our survivability is where it should be, I should be able to wreck a lot more than just cloth if left alone.

I suppose I feel that another class having such a high skillcap (such as rogues and mages) is awesome and absolutely needed, but we aren't properly rewarded as a leather wearing class when the "stars align." I would understand our design more if we were like fury warriors or boomkins who have a separate, yet entirely viable dps spec for PvP. The problem is WW is all we have if we want to dps in arenas; and while it is possible to reach high ratings such as yourself, receiving shocked compliments from your enemies for doing what anyone of your skill level would have is ridiculous. How long did it take the Horde to figure out Paladins? How long did it take the Alliance to figure out Shamans? One or two months max. At that point, it was your own fault if you weren't proficient with the class. Right now in arenas I often feel like I make mistakes and that is why I lose but if I were to make the same mistakes on say a feral druid, I could have recovered quite easily.

I completely respect you and what you are doing for the Monk community by posting this (and believe me, it has helped me already). But, I am afraid that people will start to use your example of success to show that Monks are fine; and they aren't. You should be higher rated than you are if you are able to achieve 2300 on a Monk.
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90 Pandaren Monk
11615
Great, insightful commentary. I wish you were a Mistweaver!

Of the Mistweavers you've encountered in the arena, what would you say is the issue with them, outside looking in?
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90 Night Elf Monk
8430
I've been debating PVP and found this insightful. Good post.
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Great, insightful commentary. I wish you were a Mistweaver!

Of the Mistweavers you've encountered in the arena, what would you say is the issue with them, outside looking in?


Getting CC'd, having their huge CD's dispelled or spellstolen, and relying so much on the channel + statue. At least as far as I've seen. There's one high rated one on our bg(right below me) but I've never actually played against them. Just the ones I've seen on alts or in 2s.

They're actually pretty killable by monk dps, having a move to match every one of theirs. As long as you wait 2s after stunning them the first time you can pretty much continue the cc chain as normal. I probably ran into some bad ones, but they actually feel like weaker healers when pressured than some.
Edited by Innverse on 12/11/2012 12:49 PM PST
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@Darbear


I appreciate your feedback. While I agree that I likely could have obtained this rating on any class, I have to disagree with the assessment that monk felt particularly weak doing so. I suppose my teammates might disagree(we certainly joked about it a lot), but as I pointed out, I feel it is very difficult to carry a monk. I don't think any of my teammates thought I wasn't pulling my weight.

I actually believe I would have had a harder time on a few classes. (DK is one). However I do think a lot of it can be attributed to people at high ratings lacking understanding to deal with monks.
Edited by Innverse on 12/11/2012 12:46 PM PST
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80 Human Priest
3225
12/11/2012 12:45 PMPosted by Innverse
@Darbear


I appreciate your feedback. While I agree that I likely could have obtained this rating on any class, I have to disagree with the assessment that monk felt particularly weak doing so. I suppose my teammates might disagree(we certainly joked about it a lot), but as I pointed out, I feel it is very difficult to carry a monk. I don't think any of my teammates thought I wasn't pulling my weight.

I actually believe I would have had a harder time on a few classes. (DK is one). However I do think a lot of it can be attributed to people at high ratings lacking understanding to deal with monks.


I know you don't feel you were carried but I guess I am going to have to disagree. You are playing with the most overpowered control/burst class, and probably the best healer spec pound for pound in the game.

Some of the things I saw in your post I agreed with, and others I didn't. I guess just as I find post saying how 100% awful the spec is are not helpful. I don't think post that tries to make the spec seem just fine, and glosses over many of the major flaws are not helpful either.

Again that is strickly my opinion. I will post this however for some perspective. This is taken from Arena Junkies, and is from Hidx a 6x glad that has been playing WW since the release of the new expansion:

It has pretty much come to the point where my arena partners for 5 years are starting to play less, thinking about quitting the game because they don't at all enjoy playing with a monk. For one week they even replaced me with a mage(that only has like 2.2k experience) and instantly went 30-1 win/loss just carrying him to top10 in the bg. We just have that feeling of helplessness every game, we just have to work SO hard for our wins.
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90 Undead Death Knight
7830
Much respect to Innverse. Actually gave me hope and got me to pick up and continue my monk's arena journey again.

What are your preferred comps for 2s? Could Enhance-Monk or Warrior-Monk work? I tried SPriest-Monk and it went pretty well, but my partner may be quittin' WoW. I'm having trouble finding a team for 3s.

Also, I'm curious on your opinion: Do you like the positional requirements of Paralyze, Spear Hand Strike, and Blackout Kick? I'm fond of the way they feel skill-oriented but at the same time it can be game changing to mess 'em up.
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I appreciate your feedback. While I agree that I likely could have obtained this rating on any class, I have to disagree with the assessment that monk felt particularly weak doing so. I suppose my teammates might disagree(we certainly joked about it a lot), but as I pointed out, I feel it is very difficult to carry a monk. I don't think any of my teammates thought I wasn't pulling my weight.

I actually believe I would have had a harder time on a few classes. (DK is one). However I do think a lot of it can be attributed to people at high ratings lacking understanding to deal with monks.


I know you don't feel you were carried but I guess I am going to have to disagree. You are playing with the most overpowered control/burst class, and probably the best healer spec pound for pound in the game.

Some of the things I saw in your post I agreed with, and others I didn't. I guess just as I find post saying how 100% awful the spec is are not helpful. I don't think post that tries to make the spec seem just fine, and glosses over many of the major flaws are not helpful either.

Again that is strickly my opinion. I will post this however for some perspective. This is taken from Arena Junkies, and is from Hidx a 6x glad that has been playing WW since the release of the new expansion:

It has pretty much come to the point where my arena partners for 5 years are starting to play less, thinking about quitting the game because they don't at all enjoy playing with a monk. For one week they even replaced me with a mage(that only has like 2.2k experience) and instantly went 30-1 win/loss just carrying him to top10 in the bg. We just have that feeling of helplessness every game, we just have to work SO hard for our wins.


I think you're specifically referring to when I was playing mage/pal. I agree that there are other classes that fit that comp better. However I also played fire mage/druid to 2170, war/sham to 2180, war/pal to 2180, and spriest/pal to 2150. I feel all were strong enough comps to push rating past 2200 on my battlegroup. Bloodlust might be a different story. I was the only common factor on all of those teams. I know people are going to perceive what they want, but if I didn't play at the top of my game it wouldn't have worked out. On a side note, I would venture your attitude got a lot of the top players killed by our team when they underestimated the monk.

As to Hidx's comment. Yes I agree that replacing us with another class will certainly work better in certain comps, but that is just the state of the game. Monks are not unique. Rogues, dk's, shaman dps, moonkin, rets, etc all typically work better if replaced by a mage or a warrior. You don't play a monk because you expect it to be on that level (or if you did you were wrong). You play a monk because you want to play a monk. What I'm trying to convey here is that monk works fine, you can play it well and compete with the top teams on your bg. He is absolutely right that you will have to work harder though. Class balance in an MMO is always going to work that way.

And I haven't even had the opportunity to try the comps I think would REALLY work well for a monk (feral/monk especially) because there just aren't good ferals on this server apparently.
Edited by Innverse on 12/11/2012 3:33 PM PST
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90 Undead Monk
12425
I'm glad you're having success on your monk, however this doesn't negate the fact that the class needs help. There are 2200+ of almost every spec. Outliers are outliers.
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90 Human Monk
5485
Innverse, I've been watching you on streaming and want to congratulate you for the milestone achieved. Keep up the good work!
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90 Orc Monk
9290

And I haven't even had the opportunity to try the comps I think would REALLY work well for a monk (feral/monk especially)

Tried it with Navajitas(probably the most tactical feral there is on this game imo), it worked really well.. tried it with a holy pally and a resto shaman, prefer the holy pally.. clone-rep-paralize. theres a lot of pressure to go out because ferals and monks are probably the 2 best melee classes that can stick on a target.
Edited by Dominozx on 12/11/2012 4:06 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
6290
Obviously not a 2200 player but playing even in the 1500s I am still having more fun playing this class than I have had playing others in a long time. Almost every loss I come out realizing that there was some tool that I could have used to turn the match my way.

The only complaint I have is that mobility of roll seems a bit overrated as I am often turning around after the roll to run back to the target that took a corner or that I just overshot. Would be nice if I could stop the roll at a certain distance like FSK.

Weren't you using avert harm at some point OP? Why did you switch back? Or am I thinking of someone else?
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And I haven't even had the opportunity to try the comps I think would REALLY work well for a monk (feral/monk especially)

Tried it with Navajitas(probably the most tactical feral there is on this game imo), it worked really well.. tried it with a holy pally and a resto shaman, prefer the holy pally.. clone-rep-paralize. theres a lot of pressure to go out because ferals and monks are probably the 2 best melee classes that can stick on a target.


Jealous. I think all the great ferals transferred off KT to tich. Either way I'd have a hard time finding one.

Obviously not a 2200 player but playing even in the 1500s I am still having more fun playing this class than I have had playing others in a long time. Almost every loss I come out realizing that there was some tool that I could have used to turn the match my way.

The only complaint I have is that mobility of roll seems a bit overrated as I am often turning around after the roll to run back to the target that took a corner or that I just overshot. Would be nice if I could stop the roll at a certain distance like FSK.

Weren't you using avert harm at some point OP? Why did you switch back? Or am I thinking of someone else?


Dampen harm is used against certain comps. Most comps diffuse is better. The two I'd use dampen harm on instead are kfc and kitty cleave(or melee cleaves in general). Not Unholy TSG though if that ever comes back. Frost tsg I'd prolly still take dampen harm. You just switch it before the games.
Edited by Innverse on 12/11/2012 5:48 PM PST
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Much respect to Innverse. Actually gave me hope and got me to pick up and continue my monk's arena journey again.

What are your preferred comps for 2s? Could Enhance-Monk or Warrior-Monk work? I tried SPriest-Monk and it went pretty well, but my partner may be quittin' WoW. I'm having trouble finding a team for 3s.

Also, I'm curious on your opinion: Do you like the positional requirements of Paralyze, Spear Hand Strike, and Blackout Kick? I'm fond of the way they feel skill-oriented but at the same time it can be game changing to mess 'em up.


Sorry I missed this question. Warrior Monk and Enhance monk will work, but not as well as feral/monk or some other hybrid. Your cc with an enhance won't really jive too well.

I like the positional requirements on paper. Spear hand's especially. I'm not too much of a fan of the paralyze one. I feel like it's really easy for lag or the mechanics of strafing to make if very difficult to find the back of the target you're cc'ing. It almost forces you to chain it out of a stun in both cases against mobile (good) players if you want the garunteed cc. I don't mind it being counterable by players because we have a decent amount of other ways to cc and there are ways to make up for the weaknesses. I do mind getting outplayed by the game, though.
Edited by Innverse on 12/11/2012 5:56 PM PST
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32 Human Paladin
300
May I temporarily hi-jack your thread? Sorry if any of these questions were asked, I was reading this thread yesterday and thinking of a few things to discuss, might have forgotten points.

Some bullets

1. Tiger's Lust truly the best of the tier? I have a hard time making sense of a minor sprint cc break is overpowered on even the meanest warrior. Momentum seems like it could be decent, but Celerity is attractive too.

2. Chi Brew. I assume you take this to build CP's at range for a quick Tiger's Lust or the like. Couldn't you just throw a quick CJL and get it off? Power Strikes I don't really like, but Ascension seems like it would allow you to set up some nice burst.

3. Leg Sweep. Really better than charging ox wave? I know you cite the ability to just roll into range and the like, it's a good point. I'm still split here, being kited seems too easy by frost mages and such.

4. Glyph of Zen Meditation worse than Glyph of Touch of Death? Glyph of Fire Blossom? Glyph of Blackout Kick a must?

Thanks for the thread in general, great stuff.
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90 Undead Death Knight
7830
Thanks. A guildmate of my Monk and I wanted to run Enh-Monk. Sadly I cannot find a feral but, eh, roleplay server.
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