Noble Orcs?


Cause I don't agree with that, it's dumb, org is an industrial base for the horde, of course the Alliance should attack it.


That's all I ask, personally. If you condone the destruction of Theramore as a legitimate military action, you would defend the destruction of Ogrimmar under the same situation.
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
12/08/2012 07:15 PMPosted by Jaelara
That's all I ask, personally. If you condone the destruction of Theramore as a legitimate military action, you would defend the destruction of Ogrimmar under the same situation.


Who ever even said it wasn't a target I don't get how this was ever a thing.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
17250
12/08/2012 07:04 PMPosted by Jaelara
I can accept this view if and only if you would argue the exact same thing if the Alliance razed Ogrimmar. Though I still think it's ludicrous to argue that Theramore is "a military base" rather than a sovreign nation that uses a military to defend its borders and interests just like every other sovreign nation.


Theramore was a sovereign nation that suddenly in Cata started destroying cities of the nation that had it surrounded on all sides. Therefore it got smooshed.

Also, in Tides of War, the same book where Theramore was bombed, the ENTIRE Alliance fleet showed up in Orgrimmar intent on destroying the city while most of the Horde were all over the world. They failed, but their intent was to smoosh it. Which since they were at war, was fair game.
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Seriously, Dimian. You can switch to your gnome rogue if you want, that doesn't change that this is getting a little creepy.

I mean, if you have decided to specifically focus your ire on me, that's one thing, but at least accuse me of stuff I've actually said, for crying out loud. I have never openly and unironically advocated the complete destruction of Ogrimmar that I can recall. The closest I have gotten is saying that the destruction of said capital would be no worse than the destruction of Theramore, which as far as I am concerned, is a 100% true statement. I would prefer that Theramore was never destroyed, and I have no desire to completely destroy Ogrimmar, only to get meaningful reparations from its government and/or occupying it long term to prevent the Horde from rising against the Alliance again.

If you are not going to respond to my arguments, I ask you one more time. Do not mention me, put me on ignore, and stop making these baseless accusations.
Edited by Jaelara on 12/8/2012 7:23 PM PST
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
The Horde won't win the war if Theramoore continues to pump troops into the area.

Theramoore had to go, and acting like the Horde is "BABY EATING EVIL" for making a valid military decision is silly.


They aren't baby eating evil for attacking Theramore. They're baby eating evil for using a weapon designed to cause as many casualties as possible on a target where the majority of the population was civilian.
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Theramore was a sovereign nation that suddenly in Cata started destroying cities of the nation that had it surrounded on all sides. Therefore it got smooshed.


Oh stop. It didn't "suddenly" start destroying cities, it destroyed a town because it was part of the faction that Garrosh declared war on.
Edited by Vyrin on 12/8/2012 7:20 PM PST
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
Technically since Honor's Stand didn't exist prior to Cata it really did only destroy the one town.
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Theramore was a sovereign nation that suddenly in Cata started destroying cities of the nation that had it surrounded on all sides. Therefore it got smooshed.


It did not "suddenly start destroying cities"

It destroyed one village, singular.

And it did so not "suddenly" but in direct response to aggression by said city's parent government on itself and its allies, which had been ongoing for almost a decade and had recently flared up with a direct attack on its closest ally, the elven government of Darnassus.
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15 Human Priest
10570
12/08/2012 06:59 PMPosted by Dimian
What the hell do you think tauren live in? Stone-hewn cities like Stormwind?


Are you seriously being that obtuse?
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90 Goblin Mage
8380
Nevertheless, that one village was still enough to put Theramore on the side of the Alliance, so Garrosh destroying it was a fair move, just like Camp T. was a fair move. True it wasn't tastefully done by any stretch. I would have preferred an army of angry tauren beating down the gates and sacking the city. There probably would have been a great deal less destruction and loss of life.

Unfortunately it didn't happen that way. They had to nuke it so they could push Garrosh down the bottomless slope of comic villainy because, as someone mentioned, Mention is growing a !@#$%^ for his new King Arthur and Knights of the Round, just like he had a -*!@#$ for Thrall in Cata. Just another tragedy in this sad, piss poor excuse of a Horde vs. Alliance storyline.

As for the original topic on noble orcs, yes they exist. Thrall, Eitrigg, Saurfang, that one chick in Grizzly Hills, Drek'thar and the entire Frostwolf Clan. Unfortunately all of these are either retired, staying quiet under Garrosh, staying in their valley and not getting involved, haven't been seen again, or been slathered with Mary-Sue sauce so badly that no one really seems to like him anymore. All the rest currently seem to be Garrosh's lackeys and will probably remain as such until 5.3. We'll start seeing more of them when the fight against the Legion starts, when Blizzard doesn't need them in the comic villain role anymore.
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90 Human Paladin
7745
The Horde won't win the war if Theramoore continues to pump troops into the area.

Theramoore had to go, and acting like the Horde is "BABY EATING EVIL" for making a valid military decision is silly.


They aren't baby eating evil for attacking Theramore. They're baby eating evil for using a weapon designed to cause as many casualties as possible on a target where the majority of the population was civilian.


Not only was it designed to cause as many possible casualties -- Garrosh played the situation to make it so that there scores more possible casualties in it's effect zone. Civillians, Military, Alliance, Kirin Tor, Shattered Sun ; all of them.

I'm not calling people who play Horde Evil.

It's Garrosh that's the baby eating evil one. The people who play Horde and defend his decisions with Horde motivations instead of character motivations, while also not liking Garrosh, well ... I don't think there's an alignment for that.

I'll say again that the actions against Theramore were not retaliation.
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90 Human Paladin
7745
Anyways.

Yes, there are noble Orcs (Garrosh is not one of them).

12/08/2012 07:36 PMPosted by Jetzeppelin
Eitrigg, Saurfang, that one chick in Grizzly Hills, Drek'thar and the entire Frostwolf Clan.


I just wish they'd -do- something right now.
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
12/08/2012 07:36 PMPosted by Jetzeppelin
Nevertheless, that one village was still enough to put Theramore on the side of the Alliance


Theramore was ALWAYS on the side of the Alliance. That's part of being on the Alliance.

Stop acting as though attacking the Barrens was some sort of unprecedented act of aggression when it wasn't.

I would have preferred an army of angry tauren beating down the gates and sacking the city. There probably would have been a great deal less destruction and loss of life.


Yeah, damn that Alliance, getting rid of Taurajo while also making sure most of its population gets out alive.

You know that in Tides of War, Baine is well aware of what happens at Taurajo and, get this, he doesn't blame the Alliance for it but rather he blames Garrosh for provoking the Alliance?

Funny that.
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19 Goblin Priest
0
12/08/2012 07:30 PMPosted by Banquiero
What the hell do you think tauren live in? Stone-hewn cities like Stormwind?


Are you seriously being that obtuse?


They live in... tauren huts. I wasn't aware pointing out the blatantly obvious was being obtuse. "A handful of tents"? You can call 'em tee-pees if that'll help but... they are what they are.

Seriously, Dimian. You can switch to your gnome rogue if you want, that doesn't change that this is getting a little creepy.

I mean, if you have decided to specifically focus your ire on me, that's one thing, but at least accuse me of stuff I've actually said, for crying out loud. I have never openly and unironically advocated the complete destruction of Ogrimmar that I can recall. The closest I have gotten is saying that the destruction of said capital would be no worse than the destruction of Theramore, which as far as I am concerned, is a 100% true statement. I would prefer that Theramore was never destroyed, and I have no desire to completely destroy Ogrimmar, only to get meaningful reparations from its government and/or occupying it long term to prevent the Horde from rising against the Alliance again.


You've compared Theramore to Orgrimmar. That'd be sort of like comparing Stonard to Stormwind. Destroying Orgrimmar would cripple the Horde. Destroying Theramore in no way crippled the Alliance. In fact, don't ships still travel there?
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90 Human Mage
13505
I've said many times Saurfang should be a cataclyst of the Horde rebellion. Don't care how but it has to be done.
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
12/08/2012 07:47 PMPosted by Dimian
They live in... tauren huts. I wasn't aware pointing out the blatantly obvious was being obtuse. "A handful of tents"? You can call 'em tee-pees if that'll help but... they are what they are.


She's saying a town is not a city, and I'd agree, even the Horde npcs call Taurajo a camp.
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90 Human Paladin
7745
You know that in Tides of War, Baine is well aware of what happens at Taurajo and, get this, he doesn't blame the Alliance for it but rather he blames Garrosh for provoking the Alliance?

Funny that.


Well, that's what happens when Garrosh kills your dad, allows Magatha Grimtotem to take over Thunderbluff, doesn't do anything to help retake it, but Jaina does. The Tauren leading the attack on Theramore just wouldn't have made sense.
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15 Human Priest
10570
Nevertheless, that one village was still enough to put Theramore on the side of the Alliance, so Garrosh destroying it was a fair move, just like Camp T. was a fair move. True it wasn't tastefully done by any stretch. I would have preferred an army of angry tauren beating down the gates and sacking the city. There probably would have been a great deal less destruction and loss of life.

You are aware of course that General Hawthorne, as well as his men, were actually from Stormwind and not Theramore (even though he does wear a Theramore tabard).

Also, you still haven't named 2 Horde cities that the forces from Theramore destroyed, just one little hunting camp (and yes, it's described as a hunting camp, not a city, town or even village).
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90 Human Warrior
13900
Also, in Tides of War, the same book where Theramore was bombed, the ENTIRE Alliance fleet showed up in Orgrimmar intent on destroying the city while most of the Horde were all over the world. They failed, but their intent was to smoosh it. Which since they were at war, was fair game.


I really don't know why you added this, but I highly doubt the entire Stormwind fleet was sent there, because, well, there's a fleet at Lion's Landing.

Also Garrosh was the one who lost the traditional engagement at Theramore and had to bomb it. How dishonorable. His father sure would be proud.
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