serious lack of player interest?

70 Draenei Paladin
12385
12/10/2012 01:24 PMPosted by Karamoone
The average age of WOW players as determined by multiple surveys has hung steady somewhere around 28-30 from release until now. While there are certainly individual players who have hung around for a long time, it is not true that the player base as a whole is getting significantly older as time goes by. The player base doesn't stay static, people leave and new (often younger) people join in.


If you look back to my previous comments, you'll notice I did not give specific age numbers but instead pointed out to the major changes in peoples lives, which can happen at just about any age bracket. This was to emphasize the point that peoples lives change as we age. Therefor I'm uncertain what you are attempting to dispute.

In addition, your non-sourced data is grossly miss-leading. How did these surveys you are alluding to define 'average'? Was this the rounded number out of all age ranges, or are you implying that out of some 10 million plus wow players the vast majority fall within an age range of 2 year variance? How many players were polled in these surveys? What type of survey were they? Random Gallop polls or did they ask for volunteers, etc?

What is more perplexing by your post is you debunk your own testimony. You've indicated that you found reputable information about player age ranges, which clearly indicate a static age range, but yet within the same thought you indicate it is not static.

Which begs the question, are you simply looking for an argument to refute someone or attempting to contribute something productive to the conversation? Given your previous history on these forums, I'm vastly inclined to think one over the other, but perhaps with the passage of time you might have changed? Perhaps you could clarify your intentions on these forums given your recent return to them? Is Karamoone here to argue and exert her strong opinion over others, or finally here to help?

Which basically asks the question: Sincerely, are you here for yourself or for others?

Logic would lead an individual to ponder why I inquire such of your intentions. The answer is simple, I came to the realization that previously discourse with you was ultimately pointless, and wish to know if I should entertain your comments this time or return to ignoring you outright. If you are finally here for the good of helping those who come here, I will entertain your comments and opinions. If you are not, and are simply continuing in your previous footsteps, I'll return to disregarding your commentary again.
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4 Undead Mage
0
Theres probably a couple of dozen reasons why the game shed players.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
10765
I think the fights being harder than DS has caused some issues in guilds.

Also factor in how tough it feels to gear up alts with all the dailies attached to Valor gear it makes fielding multiple raid groups much harder.

We expected to have 2-3 groups running and ended up with just one group after most of the people either faded away or decided to not gear up alts to run in more than one group.
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4 Undead Mage
0
The game is getting long in the tooth. It hit its peak a good while back now and will continue to trend downward as time goes on. Theres no other way for it to go. Which, not coincidently, is why you are seeing consolidation type implementations like CRZ.

So Blizz knows what time it is.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
6780
The game is getting long in the tooth. It hit its peak a good while back now and will continue to trend downward as time goes on. Theres no other way for it to go. Which, not coincidently, is why you are seeing consolidation type implementations like CRZ.

So Blizz knows what time it is.


Gotta agree. I sounds like it is running on an older code base.
Each expansion we rep grind, we go in to instances and kill bosses.
The changes made in the game are nice, but they are not game changing in any way.

The graphics are cartoonish, the world is immense but each area briefly interesting.

Raiding has become IMO more depersonalized as we zoom out our cameras and kill the fuzzy cartoons.

Also the actions of players in the game have no real effect on the world. Kill a boss? Clink here is a possible purple and a title. See you next week to grind it again.

The horde versus the alliance is so fierce, yet they walk past each other in cities.

All there really is, is the grind. And for many that gets to be a grind.
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70 Draenei Paladin
12385
The truth is, there has to be a world. Games like FF XIII learned that the hard way (linear hallway of "fun") - players need a living world in an MMO, it can't just be a series of instances with bosses and loot, because then there's no exploration, social interaction or life.

It's far from perfect - but MoP's world is far site better than the Cata era of "teleport to dungeon, raid, log out".


I believe the word you are looking for that would summarize your thoughts, is 'Community'.

I strongly feel that endeavors by MMO developers that encourage the growth, enrichment, and support of their player base's 'cyber community' via implemented endeavors, ultimately allow for sustainability for their MMO. Where as decisions geared to the erosion of community, such as LFR and Random Dungeons, which IMHO has shown to distance players from each other, lead to the loss of sustainability.

Simply put, it is not one thing that allows for an MMO to survive and thrive, but rather a balance of elements. As I previously mentioned, adaptation is one of them, but also to is the wisdom to implement such ideas that ensure a growth and enrichment in community, and not is dissolution.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
14610
12/08/2012 10:37 PMPosted by Bogrel
Ok, its been a couple months since the expansion has come out. My guild started with 50 players on on average every night, and we quickly leveled 80 or so lvl 90's. Plans were in place for 4 raid groups and things looked good. About a month in people started loosing interest and not showing, to the point that we are down to about 15 people a night. I guess my question is, are other raiding/casual guild experiencing a severe lack of player interest? My only guess as to why is that the long summer of no new content drove allot of people to take a break, when they came back they decided they had better things to do....I don't know.


I'm actually seeing the opposite overall in my guild. We are a very casual guild with currently no raid progression. (we hope to have that change here in a little while). However average attendance on each night has been slowly climbing since MoP hit. Though some nights are deader than a doornail because most of us have work/school and or kids/family to take care of. So far only one or two of my regular members have gotten burned out, but they were ones that were on for 10+ hrs of the day for the first month or two. They do intend to return once they are bored again.

Flipside. I have been seeing people complaining in other guilds of the lack of people getting on. So its overall a potential problem. Could be any number of reasons however.
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4 Undead Mage
0

Gotta agree. I sounds like it is running on an older code base.
Each expansion we rep grind, we go in to instances and kill bosses.
The changes made in the game are nice, but they are not game changing in any way.

The graphics are cartoonish, the world is immense but each area briefly interesting.

Raiding has become IMO more depersonalized as we zoom out our cameras and kill the fuzzy cartoons.

Also the actions of players in the game have no real effect on the world. Kill a boss? Clink here is a possible purple and a title. See you next week to grind it again.

The horde versus the alliance is so fierce, yet they walk past each other in cities.

All there really is, is the grind. And for many that gets to be a grind.


Blizzard hasn't done much in the innovation department since its flagship release and even those can be counted on one hand. Its been more borrowing and rehashing in recent years.

Still, you cant take away what they accomplished, which is very impressive (depending on your worldview) but I dont think their successes led them to believe it was going to last forever. Theyre smart enough to know they cannot outpace the inevitable.
Edited by Pyrettaßlaze on 12/10/2012 4:36 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
4490
Blizzard hasn't done much in the innovation department since its flagship release and even those can be counted on one hand. Its been more borrowing and rehashing in recent years.Still, you cant take away what they accomplished, which is very impressive (depending on your worldview) but I dont think their successes led them to believe it was going to last forever. Theyre smart enough to know they cannot outpace the inevitable.


truth be told nothing that has come out recently in regards to MMOs is all that innovative.. With the exception of GW2 the others just seemed to be more of a rehash of the same old formula with different window dressings.

I have completely lost my interest in raiding.. but then again I started losing that interest towards the end of Wrath. Cata demolished it... I was hoping MoP would change things, but in reality it has not.

I have less time to play now then ever.. My job and real life requires more of my time and energy, leaving a whole lot less for WoW or any past time

I am not young .. I am at a point in my life that many of you have yet to reach, a point where things like WoW have to take a back seat or other things may in fact suffer

At one point I was playing 4-5hrs a day during the week and 15-20hrs durning the weekends Which explains why I have way too many geared 85s.. MoP hit I got a new job and Things changed... Now I have to help my parents deal with the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy... yes We have a house along the Jersey Shore.. We were lucky , we just lost the garage and have some foundation damage... but the community has been gutted and it will be a long time before things are back to normal... Katrina was 7+ years ago and there are some areas along the gulf of Miss and in New Orleans that still have not recovered.

So I have other prioritieis this year, that will keep me away from the game.. I am sure I am not the only one

WoW is older Wow has changed,, but we also have changed I am not the same gamer I was when I started playing this game 6 yrs ago. The game is not new, it has lost it's shine as all things that are no longer new do.

I think Blizz needs to bring in some fresh blood, But all things have a birth and life and a death... No game lives forever unchanged... Is WoW Dying Yes, but so are we. Morbid thought but true... So lets not focus on is WoW dying.. but lets enjoy what still works..

Point is have fun.. if raiding is no longer fun then why raid, If this game is no longer fun, then why continue to play?
Edited by Ssinfull on 12/10/2012 5:36 PM PST
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85 Undead Priest
14500
good posts sub,

well written
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85 Dwarf Paladin
6780
12/10/2012 05:56 PMPosted by Subrosian
Nothing Blizz does will make the game new for you - either you like the raiding, explore the new areas, stop worrying so much about whether you're "doing it all" and just have fun with it - or you see all the new stuff and treat it as "yet another grind".


Totally not true, at least for me.
What they would need to do is step out side the cosmetic and mechanics box to develop not just a new release but a new Warcraft.
Look at movie remakes as a far example. Some old classics have been remade and put in to series and failed. But others took the good ideas and took new and inspired directions.

The NPC characters in Warcraft feel as two dimensional as they look. The canned lines are flat. They have lots of NPC and hardly a one that makes a person give them a second notice. The images and graphics are years old. The raid encounters have very few aspects where the boss or mobs move in strategic ways that make one think they are living creatures.
It does not need to be that way, and the possibilities while still keeping it an MMO and the sword and soccery feel is very possible.

I'm not saying it is easy, and real change is really, really hard and rare. But also very possible.

And I'm not taking away from all the company and game has done. It has and in some ways still is amazing. But long term amazing is a moving changing thing.
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4 Undead Mage
0
Change isn't always a good thing and most of what made WoW the industry giant has slipped away into the folds of time along with its original creators.

People's attention spans have been on the decline for years thanks to all forms of modern media which is why we have seen a subtle shift from story based adventuring built around the journey to the reward me now dammit console mentality with all the little addicting ploys and gimmicks.

Generally speaking, folk dont want engrossing tales of battle hardened heroes and their exploits anymore, they want to crunch numbers and put on the latest gear before the other schmucks do and the suits over at Blizz HQ have been more than happy to accomodate the E Sport crowd.

No matter how well designed and pretty a game is, its only as good as its community and WoWs is pretty rotten. We can't blame one or the other, its a symbiotic endeavor, but it went the $$$$ profit route and in the video game business, that puts a finite amount of time on how long you can milk the cash cow.
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90 Worgen Hunter
10850
What is slowly driving me away from WoW is it's attempts to funnel players into a certain build. I started playing shortly after Wrath came out and you could choose any talent at any time, provided you had the pre-reqs. You may never have the optimal build or reach the 41 pt talent, but you'd have a build you wanted. Then, in Cata, they made it so you have to spent 31 pts in your spec tree before you could go to another tree. Now in MoP, they give you 3 talents and make you choose one. Next expansion, we might not even get a choice. The one thing I did like though was the removal of ranks (Poisons rank 1, poisons rank 2, etc.)

Consider Skyrim, aside from it's major freezing issues that drove me bananas...you could play the same race (wow's equiv of class) in a million different ways. You could be a heavy armor wearing spell caster, or a cloth wearing thief. That's what makes it fun - it becomes your game, your character. It's the diversity that makes a game fun, for me at least. Wow is losing that diversity with each expansion.

Even the questing is not so fun. Pre-Outland, Azeroth you have 2 continents, though you will probably stay on your home continent. Then Outland, you start in the same zone all the time, but can branch off from there. Northend you have 2 starting points, each branching off their own way. Up to there was good - you had options in where you wanted to go. Cata came out and aside from the starting zones, everything else was linear - 82 deepholm, 83 uldum, 84 highlands...unless you stayed somewhere long enough to level twice. MoP is the same way. What's worse is the quests seem much longer in MoP than before, probably due to having to complete each storyline arc before proceeding.

As Deathpony said earlier, change is inevitable to keep going...but what good is change if everything is the same?
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12025
The game has changed a lot, but consider also that the playerbase has changed. And I don't mean just those of us who have been here since vanilla. It goes without saying that at 29 I have much less free time to spend on gaming than I did at 21. I also have less interest in pulling all nighters, less interest in just hanging out with people online, etc. My time in WoW is very goal oriented - I play to raid and I do the minimum that I need to outside of that to enable myself to raid successfully.

I, like WoW itself, am in maintenance mode. These are the twilight years of this game (and of my life as a gamer, which I don't expect to continue past WoW's eventual "end" (be it a hard end or a soft f2p model end.))

The players that began WoW in Wrath, and Cata, and now in MoP, are different. 21 year old gamers today have "grown up" in a world of gamer score and f2p modeling and a focus on convenience gaming. These players have a totally different mentality than those of us who started with WoW in vanilla, where it was typical of gamers to play for the love of playing, and who thought nothing of spending 6 hours in MC and getting no loot. MC was a luxury to players who came from MMOS with no endgame at all (like myself in SWG) or from MMOS where the endgame was ridiculously competitive and time consuming (EQ.)

12/10/2012 06:02 PMPosted by Subrosian
Any game in the "WoW style" faces that problem - the days when people played an MMO to play an MMO are long gone.


This sums it up nicely.
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