For All The Idiocy In the PVP Forums...

90 Dwarf Shaman
7080
It's still not as bad as this:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7320822467?page=1

tl;dr Dude rolls a toon on PVP Server and then takes to the forums to complain about being ganked.

OP's Comment:

Quoted from the World of Warcraft Terms of Use Agreement: "You should always remember to protect yourself where members of a hostile race can attack you."

The problem is that you CAN'T protect yourself against a player who is substantially higher than you are. Since gear is such a deciding factor in this game, not even your average 90 is going to have much of a chance against a full Dreadful Gladiator geared 90. What chance would a lower level have? Basically this makes that level 90 a 'god' that can go around and kill whoever they feel like indiscriminately. This is seriously impacting the game because I can't even quest on my alts without getting killed repeatedly by a level 90. Any ideas anyone?


This thread got so big that it actually warranted a Blue response:

This is going to sound weird, and while I do empathize with the frustration that's being expressed in this thread, this conversation still warms the cockles of my black little heart.

Why? Because for too long there was very little distinction between playing on a PvE realm and playing on a PvP realm. We had inadvertently created a situation where there was little risk when leveling in the world on a PvP realm. The experiences were, for all practical purposes, virtually identical, but that wasn't what we had in mind.

Life on a PvP realm can be nasty, brutish and short. Justice is in very short supply. Every action you take in the world carries with it an added level of risk, from questing, to hunting down profession materials, to simply traveling from place to place. You can be attacked at any time, sometimes by an overwhelming force. Of course, the shoe can also be on the other foot, and you'll be able to turn the tables on your attacker, or find clever ways to delay them or escape from them. Some will become roaming slayers, seeking out enemies to destroy.

In short, the experience on a PvP server is different. We want it to be different, and that includes everything from honorable conflict on the field of battle to horribly despicable ganking. It's all part of the fabric that makes a PvP server what it is.

Let the blood be spilled.


My jaw was literally on the floor after reading this thread. This is what has become of the World of Warcraft Player Base?
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85 Goblin Hunter
2100
I don't get it, I play on Kil'Jaeden which is a full PvP realm and I never had any "omg I am being so grieffed that I am going to cry" momment. My last char (monk) went from 1 to 90 and I was killed by high level players like, 3 times. Only time I was slightly grieffed was by a rogue when I was grinding with my warlock, I logged out for 5 minutes and he was gone. Life can be harsh in a PvP realm, people will kill you and you will kill people, if that makes you boo boo just play on some PvE realm -.-
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80 Dwarf Shaman
570
So let's get this straight:

You join a PvP server, you get ganked, camped, killed, griefed, outgeared, roflstomped by an organized group...whatever. That's fine.

You join a PvP queue, and now that's frowned upon. Makes sense.
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90 Undead Warrior
12085
right. those blue words just go to show you
they're not really sure where the game is
and what warcraft is because those blue
words just a few short days ago was all
about taking out the pvp in the battleground
and there's a recent patch to back it up.

and now those words are saying, 'let the blood be spilled"?

though i agree about pvp on a pvp server and
that's as it should be, and he says, "...by an
overwhelming force". okay, great, but shouldn't
the very same thing be fair in the battleground,
a pvp environment, the overwhelming force.
this is exactly what you try to do in a bg,
overwhelm them.

you would think.

this blue's words just a few days ago, and a recent
patch, say that the battleground really shouldn't be
about pvp, or trying to win, or overwhelming the
'flagged' enemy, because it is not fair to pvp in a
place made for pvp, the battleground.

you can be stomped on a pvp server while
pickng flowers but you can't be stomped
in a pvp battleground while pvp'ing. this seems
to be the official stance if blue words are official.

talk about a confused...

Cheers.
Pleb.

note: if you're on a pvp server, and do not
want to get overwhelmed, just queue up a
random battleground. you are safe there.
Edited by Theplebian on 12/7/2012 11:33 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
5335
Lol someone tried to gank me last night and kept trying it actually got annoying the 12th time i killed them it was kinda like wtf i have killed you 12 times already stop trying to kill me.
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90 Orc Warrior
10025
12/07/2012 11:31 AMPosted by Shadowpowerz
Lol someone tried to gank me last night and kept trying it actually got annoying the 12th time i killed them it was kinda like wtf i have killed you 12 times already stop trying to kill me.


I remember in vanilla I killed a 60 spriest on a 55 rogue in Un'goro...the spriest was afk. :D
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
0
From this...

if you break it down, what does a full oQueue premade bring to the table that is unfair?


I’ll try to break it down as clearly as I can:

Any addon that enables a full, organized Battleground group to queue against a randomly assembled group is creating a scenario where that coordinated group has a huge advantage. That is not in the spirit of the experience we want to provide in the normal Battleground queue. Playing with friends is fun and important, but it shouldn't come at the expense of the spirit of the game nor the fun of others.

The normal Battleground queue is for players to jump in and play against other players in a similar situation. We realize that it's not a perfect system, and we're still looking at ways to improve normal Battleground queues further. Regardless, it's not meant for organized groups to "pug stomp" and get quick Honor. We have built in outlets for players that want to organize--if a competitive, social experience was really the goal, then there are clear ways to achieve that.

The ultimate effect that this kind of queuing has had is to drive players away from PvP. Perhaps it's been a long time since you've been in a random group, but a lot of players will see that they're up against a premade and simply quit. At best, they suffer through it. To an extent premade groups count on this. Heck, one of the popular addons announces opposing players that appear to have rage quit.

Addons aren’t really a viable solution for botting issues, but we do take those issues seriously and we'll continue our work on improvements to the Battleground system, including better ways to deal with botting and other exploitative gameplay.


To this...

This is going to sound weird, and while I do empathize with the frustration that's being expressed in this thread, this conversation still warms the cockles of my black little heart.

Why? Because for too long there was very little distinction between playing on a PvE realm and playing on a PvP realm. We had inadvertently created a situation where there was little risk when leveling in the world on a PvP realm. The experiences were, for all practical purposes, virtually identical, but that wasn't what we had in mind.

Life on a PvP realm can be nasty, brutish and short. Justice is in very short supply. Every action you take in the world carries with it an added level of risk, from questing, to hunting down profession materials, to simply traveling from place to place. You can be attacked at any time, sometimes by an overwhelming force. Of course, the shoe can also be on the other foot, and you'll be able to turn the tables on your attacker, or find clever ways to delay them or escape from them. Some will become roaming slayers, seeking out enemies to destroy.

In short, the experience on a PvP server is different. We want it to be different, and that includes everything from honorable conflict on the field of battle to horribly despicable ganking. It's all part of the fabric that makes a PvP server what it is.

Let the blood be spilled.


You my friend just added even more logs to this fire.

In short, the experience in a PvP instance (BG) is different. We want it to be different, and that includes everything from honorable conflict on the field of battle to horribly despicable ganking. It's all part of the fabric that makes a PvP instance (BG) what it is.

Let the blood be spilled.

Your Turn ...
Edited by Xaeva on 12/7/2012 1:08 PM PST
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90 Undead Warlock
10715
HEHE he said "warms the COCKles"
Edited by Demoniclily on 12/7/2012 1:14 PM PST
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90 Gnome Warlock
6655
The post referred to by the OP is probably the most successful troll of all time.
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90 Undead Warrior
12085
12/07/2012 04:45 PMPosted by Lemewiinks
The post referred to by the OP is probably the most successful troll of all time.


yes, that post went to 26 pages fast. really fast.

could the most successful troll be the blue post
on pg5 in that thread? it'll take a bit of reading
to really get a feel for it but Xaeva's post, showing
two blue posts, is the basis of it all.

the first blue post quote, "i'll try to break it down..."
is a part of three 26pg threads (1500 posts) and
a number of other threads /posts on the same
topic across several forums.

it's got to do with patch 5.1 and the official stance
saying basically that the premade, or groups larger
than five, in battlegrounds is against the spirit of the
game, against the spirit of the experience, that it is
against the rules to overwhelm the enemy with coordination
and strategy. stomping, camping, and all out pvp against
the enemy in a bg. it's not fair.

the second blue quote, "this is going so sound weird..."
counters the first, counters the patch, counters what
these blue words said just a few days ago.

if you are on a pvp server, it is the spirit of the game to
rolfstomp the enemy. it is the spirit of the experience to
camp the enemy. if you're on a pvp server out in the world
the intent is to overwhelm the enemy. it is encouraged. it is fair.

what we have here is an official two faced stance on pvp.

i have a sense that the anti premade types that cried how
unfair it was to get overwhelmed in the bg's are the very
same ones that are hoorah'ing this support to overwhelm
the lowbies and undergeared in the world on pvp servers.

Cheers.
Pleb.
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90 Gnome Warlock
6655
Or Battlegrounds is not the same as World PVP?

btw I love your posts because they make me feel like I'm reading prose. Despite that all of my mental handicaps prevent me from appreciating it.
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90 Undead Warrior
12085
ty. i know i'm not mr. toast master, not eloquent,
and i'm okay with that. just one of the common folk.

yes, they are not the same. however, they are
enough alike to where there should not be a
separate game philosophy where 'the spirit of
the experience' and 'the spirit of the game'
are diametrically opposed. something is awry.

Cheers.
Pleb.
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90 Gnome Warlock
6655
12/07/2012 06:08 PMPosted by Lemewiinks
Or Battlegrounds is not the same as World PVP?
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90 Gnome Warlock
6655
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/equivoqu.html
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90 Human Mage
4945
On a PvP server you rarely get a fair match, but that's OK because if you don't like it you can transfer to a PvE server. However in BGs you are guaranteed the same number of players on each side. You are not guaranteed a fair mix of roles, item levels or skilled players. The best BGs are the ones where you should lose on paper (i.e. they have more healers, and/or better gear, etc) but you prevail. As an American I can certainly appreciate that (Revolutionary War).
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90 Orc Warrior
16735
alll that chatter is just senseless. they dont want you do premade because they have decided battlegrounds must be that way. The why and when is senseless, you can premade anywhere else, cities, pvp zones, even goldshire, those are OK. they never ever ever enabled you to 40man Q for AV though......*cough*
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90 Undead Warrior
12085
12/07/2012 08:54 PMPosted by Spins
alll that chatter is just senseless. they dont want you do premade because they have decided battlegrounds must be that way. The why and when is senseless, you can premade anywhere else, cities, pvp zones, even goldshire, those are OK. they never ever ever enabled you to 40man Q for AV though......*cough*


this, chatter, is not senseless. it's ineffectual if a
change of their misguided patch and vision is the
desire. it wasn't. we all know that when people, or a
company, are stuck on stupid there's going to be no
productive conversation, let alone worthwhile change.

not real sure what to make of what your saying because
of your use of 'sense' and your *cough*. i suppose
it really doesn't matter. patch 5.1, the blues and their
two faced stand, the people that are blindly worshiping
them, a company that's dumbing down a great game...

stupid is as stupid does.

Cheers.
Pleb.
Edited by Theplebian on 12/8/2012 1:15 AM PST
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90 Orc Warrior
16735
the simple fact you can't write an entire phrase takes away your credibility, you look like your trying to be funny, or to entertain people, that is senseless in a constructive discussion.

you basically just state your opinion, that you disagree with game design decisions but you don't say why, you just say they're stupid and you're not. But how are they dumbing down a game that has seen constant evolution since the 7-8 years it came out?

Yes, the game has changed and it now reflects the new consumers. Being ganked in world pvp is the end of the world for you? Let's say you travel the world, on planet earth, and you come across another countries militia. Now, you're fighting your way through, hunting to eat, and killing bandits to help the local town in exchange for a reward (ring a bell so far? you're questing). Make no mistake you will get ganked.

So Blizzard changed their policy on battleground premades and they only allow groups of 5. you want full team coordination? you can do that without addons, there's rateds, and there's war games.

You're tired of bots? help them fight those that are actually at fault and report the bots when you see them. Yeah it's a slow method, but there is no magic button to remove them all at once.

You probly remember when blink was just a mere tool to step onto rocks. Curiously, it's now a great ability that doesnt get stuck as much as it did. You can even blink in different directions if you glyph it.
Did you venture a guess how they made that evolution? One spot at a time, bug reports. One for each damn location where blink was failing and you got stuck in a rock, in a staircase, or just on the border of two different ground textures...

of course you could always not play if all of the above still don't make you happy.
Edited by Spins on 12/8/2012 1:46 AM PST
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