Arthas has a sister.

90 Undead Death Knight
Req
14345
12/09/2012 07:33 PMPosted by Vyrin
Undercity is Lordaeron despite it never really being referred to as such,
Haven't you read Rise of the Lich King? The main Undercity page explicitly says the following

The Undercity was so named many years before the Forsaken claimed it as their own. Far beneath the palace of Lordaeron, the Undercity held the ancient crypts and catacombs of Lordaeron's royalty, as well as the city's dungeons and sewers. Although the Undercity was only intended for prisoners and the dead, the poorest of the Lordaeron people lived within. When the Alliance captured Orgrim Doomhammer, they sent him to the Undercity; sometime later he managed to escape and wandered for many years afterwards.[2]


12/09/2012 07:33 PMPosted by Vyrin
The Forsaken are not Lordaeron and have absolutely no relation to Lordaeron. If you believe they do you need to get your head checked.
I believe that you need to get your head checked. It doesn't really matter if the Forsaken are related to Lordaeron or not, because they're still occupying the city anyways, and no amount of your insisting that they have any right to it is going to move them.

I'd just to ask though why is this such a touchy subject for you? I mean if you think about it the Forsaken are groups of rebel undead and the majority of them are human. While they may not be Lordaeron citizens they likely are from the Lordaeron continent. And considering that the Scourge completely obliterated Lordaeron you would expect a great deal of the Scourge to be comprised of them, and as a result the Forsaken to be comprised of them as well.
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25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
12/09/2012 07:44 PMPosted by Vynathlon
Haven't you read Rise of the Lich King? The main Undercity page explicitly says the following


Yeah. It's the sewers of Lordaeron and was never intended to be a city in and of itself, but that's what the Forsaken made of it.

12/09/2012 07:44 PMPosted by Vynathlon
I'd just to ask though why is this such a touchy subject for you? I mean if you think about it the Forsaken are groups of rebel undead and the majority of them are human. While they may not be Lordaeron citizens they likely are from the Lordaeron continent. And considering that the Scourge completely obliterated Lordaeron you would expect a great deal of the Scourge to be comprised of them, and as a result the Forsaken to be comprised of them as well.


I've typed pages upon pages on this but the main reason I hate the Forsaken so much is because their presence cheapens the Human storyline, ESPECIALLY if Blizzard goes this "humans with skin conditions" route. There are reasons for this ranging from the fact that they're blocking the Human storyline's logical progression with their plot-armor, it raises the question of why anyone should play a normal human, it severely dilutes Human history if they have to share such a significant part of it with the Horde in a direct way, and it detracts from their uniqueness as a race to have a bunch of human derivatives everywhere.

Incidentally, a lot of these complaints apply to the Forsaken in reverse as well. I'd say that THEIR race and storyline is cheapened by trying to make them humans with skin conditions as well.

That said, your question is loaded. The Forsaken are not humans and never were humans. The sooner you understand this the easier it becomes to understand the Forsaken.
Edited by Vyrin on 12/9/2012 7:49 PM PST
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90 Goblin Mage
8380
So as to the original topic and the idea that Calia would get killed by Forsaken just because she's Arthas's sister, perhaps. Perhaps not though.

If the Forsaken have it out for the Menethil family just because of Arthas, why is Terenas's memorial still in the ruins of Lordaeron unmolested? Sylvanas could have had thing broken and removed any time she wanted. Yet it's still there?
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90 Human Paladin
17285
12/09/2012 07:33 PMPosted by Vynathlon
If it's any consolation I don't want to get into this with him.


You brought up the Forsaken in post #3, when they hadn't been mentioned in posts #1 or #2.

You referred to them as citizens of Lordaeron. You knew that was liable to start an argument. You admitted to participating in several arguments about that very subject in the past.

You derailed this thread by posting something off-topic and controversial. Don't act like he's somehow at fault for replying. He may have taken the bait, but you're the one who was trolling in the first place.
Edited by Egrem on 12/9/2012 8:17 PM PST
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90 Undead Death Knight
Req
14345
12/09/2012 07:47 PMPosted by Vyrin
Yeah. It's the sewers of Lordaeron and was never intended to be a city in and of itself, but that's what the Forsaken made of it.
Technically Arthas contructed the city for himself but was never able to use it since he was sent back to Northrend. It said that the Forsaken actually reclaimed the city for themselves.

12/09/2012 07:47 PMPosted by Vyrin
I've typed pages upon pages on this but the main reason I hate the Forsaken so much is because their presence cheapens the Human storyline, ESPECIALLY if Blizzard goes this "humans with skin conditions" route.
Well based on the Forsaken's expansion of their lands combined with horrible misuse of plague, as well as trying to commit genocide against both the humans and the worgen I think Blizzard has the opposite in mind.

12/09/2012 07:47 PMPosted by Vyrin
That said, your question is loaded. The Forsaken are not humans and never were humans. The sooner you understand this the easier it becomes to understand the Forsaken.
K the Forsaken is an undead organization comprised of once living Lordaeron citizens. You could have just said that in the first place.
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62 Orc Death Knight
6255


The Forsaken are not Lordaeron and have absolutely no relation to Lordaeron. If you believe they do you need to get your head checked.


WTF!?

"Death offered no escape for the scores of humans killed during the Lich King’s campaign to scour the living from Lordaeron. Instead, the kingdom’s fallen were risen into undeath as Scourge minions and forced to wage an unholy war against everything… and everyone… that they once held dear."

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/race/undead
Edited by Kazgro on 12/9/2012 8:16 PM PST
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
Guys just ignore him :P
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90 Night Elf Warrior
6265
She is dead Arthas killed her when he came back from northrend
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90 Blood Elf Priest
11545
Since forsaken are only tools that Sylvannas use to fulfil her interests, the current ocupants of Lordaeron have no claim to it anymore... That's so because when she rises a new forsaken she give them a choice: Serve me or return to the grave.

Anyone smart enought knows that if a guy points you a gun and says "Hey, give me your money or I murder you!" he is not really giving you any choice, right?
That's no free will... There is "will" involved, because you could "chose to get murdered" anyway, but its not "free" because his actions are *forcing you to make a specific decision*

So, any lordaeronian who disagrees with Sylvannas is murdered... She keeps only the weak willied, the ones who are too affraid to return to their graves... They would even kill their once friends to not die again! What kind of person would do that?

Do they serve Sylvanas because they have the Lordaeron's interest in mind? Not really... They do what she tells them to do. Would you murder your own brothers for someone you were an enemy two minutes ago? Would you?
"Oh, but when you are rised you have no free will.. it comes just moments later"... Still, having murdered your own brother and seeing how you were used by the forsaken, would you still be on their side?

The Forsaken have *no claim* to Lordaeron, because every single one of them is a traitor to their own kingdom... They raised arms agaisnt their living brothers, and that makes them traitors.
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90 Gnome Rogue
8585
LORDAERON RIGHTFULLY BELONGS TO... eh...

I don't even have it in me anymore. Let's just keep a-killin' each other, yeah?
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90 Tauren Shaman
13185
Oh look at this burning train.... it was placed on such unstable tracks... now it rolls on into a mindless loop which could be summed up as 'IS TOO! IS NOT! IS TOO! IS NOT!!! etc.'

Personally that this point Im hoping the burning legion land in lordearon, driving the forsaken into northrend and then proceed to corrupt the land to such a point that it will never sustain life ever again. Then anyone left wanting to fight over the smoldering feltainted rubble, on which just walking would cause any creature alive or dead to keel over and die an incredably agonising death, would be free to have it.
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90 Night Elf Druid
8360
12/09/2012 04:11 PMPosted by Vynathlon
If Lordaeron wasn't already occupied I'd say sure why not? The problem is it's already occupied by Lordaeronian citizens and already has a different form of government in place with a completely separate leader. Bringing Calia back really wouldn't do very much.


Ignoring that comment about Lordaeron being in the hands of Lordaeronians since not everyone agrees; this would be a major event for the Alliance. She is a Menethil, part of the family that ruled the greatest human nation.

Let's say that, worst case scenario, she is a complete airhead and a good for nothing; only a fraction the person her father and brother were. She would still be a very powerful figure head.

The Alliance would no longer be fighting for some dead family's kingdom to restore old glory; they would be fighting for her Kingdom. They could restore Lordaeron in it's entirty, with a Menethil on the throne.

Speaking politically, it would be even better if Varian married her. He would then have a legitimate claim to both the Throne of Stormwind and the Throne of Lordaeron.
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90 Tauren Shaman
13185
12/12/2012 03:08 PMPosted by Adeodatus
If Lordaeron wasn't already occupied I'd say sure why not? The problem is it's already occupied by Lordaeronian citizens and already has a different form of government in place with a completely separate leader. Bringing Calia back really wouldn't do very much.


Ignoring that comment about Lordaeron being in the hands of Lordaeronians since not everyone agrees; this would be a major event for the Alliance. She is a Menethil, part of the family that ruled the greatest human nation.

Let's say that, worst case scenario, she is a complete airhead and a good for nothing; only a fraction the person her father and brother were. She would still be a very powerful figure head.

The Alliance would no longer be fighting for some dead family's kingdom to restore old glory; they would be fighting for her Kingdom. They could restore Lordaeron in it's entirty, with a Menethil on the throne.

Speaking politically, it would be even better if Varian married her. He would then have a legitimate claim to both the Throne of Stormwind and the Throne of Lordaeron.


Which would lead to endless whining over why the Alliance couldnt take back Lordaeron due to the Forsaken's plot armor.

The Alliance has the same chance of taking Lordearon as the horde has of taking Darnassus. Its not going to happen in WoWs lifetime. The resources required to do that level an update arent really worth it for blizz.
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Calia tripped and fell in a plot-hole, just like Tharassian's sister Larissa.
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90 Night Elf Priest
16525
12/12/2012 04:26 PMPosted by Trook


Ignoring that comment about Lordaeron being in the hands of Lordaeronians since not everyone agrees; this would be a major event for the Alliance. She is a Menethil, part of the family that ruled the greatest human nation.

Let's say that, worst case scenario, she is a complete airhead and a good for nothing; only a fraction the person her father and brother were. She would still be a very powerful figure head.

The Alliance would no longer be fighting for some dead family's kingdom to restore old glory; they would be fighting for her Kingdom. They could restore Lordaeron in it's entirty, with a Menethil on the throne.

Speaking politically, it would be even better if Varian married her. He would then have a legitimate claim to both the Throne of Stormwind and the Throne of Lordaeron.


Which would lead to endless whining over why the Alliance couldnt take back Lordaeron due to the Forsaken's plot armor.

The Alliance has the same chance of taking Lordearon as the horde has of taking Darnassus. Its not going to happen in WoWs lifetime. The resources required to do that level an update arent really worth it for blizz.


I can't speak for everyone, but I would personally think that the Forsaken having to resist aggression from the Alliance because Calia wants her country back and succeeding to by being as dirty as they can could work out.

Or perhaps it could more of a shadow war than a push on the Forsaken front. War's over, no one wants to keep going at it, and the Kalimdor Alliance will probably not care at all for Calia's claims. It would be more or less Alliance operatives trying to weaken the Forsaken through sabotage operations, but unable to have the army go at it without causing big trouble and risking alliances.
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1 Blood Elf Rogue
0

Which would lead to endless whining over why the Alliance couldnt take back Lordaeron due to the Forsaken's plot armor.

Some players getting angsty seems like a poor reason to abandon potentially interesting plot points.
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
12/09/2012 07:47 PMPosted by Vyrin
it raises the question of why anyone should play a normal human


The existence of any other race raises this question imo.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
6920
Probably killed when Arthas went killing his way through Lordaeron. *shrug*
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. . . and probably raised as Undead. Calia's most likely right there in Undercity, with Sylvanus' Forsaken.
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
12/13/2012 09:57 AMPosted by Trilliam
. . . and probably raised as Undead. Calia's most likely right there in Undercity, with Sylvanus' Forsaken.


Or in pieces as an abomination, or artillery for a meatwagon.
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