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The whole idea here, is that on some heavy AoE damage fights, with SotF our burst heals ARE higher... therefore reducing our overheals, and making us more efficient. I'm not trying to argue that Incarnation is useless... yes Incarnation will be much better for some fight, YES!... but for those heavy AoE damaging fights, SotF will for sure pull much farther ahead.
Fights like Garalon, Tsulong, or Will, and a few more partial fights... with Incarnation, you're burning through so many GCDs just to blanket the raid with lifebloom... yes, its cheap heals... yes you're gunna have lots of free regrowths... but the bulk majority of your regrowths are going to end up overheals. Which leave WG vs LB... WB+SotF will slaughter LB on the healing meters. and SotF is passive.... meaning you can use it every 15 seconds (12 seconds), throughout the entire fight.
Also... quit focusing on the haste caps here... the only reason i mentioned it, is that you can still make the first SotF haste breakpoint, but be able to switch to Incarnation for the "NON" AoE intensive fights. If you can't be versatile, you're not gunna be a good healer in any setting... PERIOD!
Edited by Tripcy on 12/9/2012 3:31 AM PST
I... don't really understand, OP. You're saying that by favoring SoTF > Incarnation that you're able to conserve your mana better - which is the issue rdruids have right now - because you can rely on WG to do more healing for you? And your proof of such implications is because WG is doing #1 healing for you right now?
My intention here is to free up GCD's... Before i was often healing from GCD to GCD... mana was never really an issue, except when i started "pre blanketing" the raid in rejuvs, to handle the incoming damage. With SotF... i've found my burst AoE healing is nearly doubled. All im saying here, is Try it out... test it in LFR or a heroic.
Edited by Tripcy on 12/9/2012 3:47 AM PST
If those particular fights make use of the majority of WG-SM CDs then of course it will.
There might be a case for Garalon but I'm not to sure about Tuslong. I like being able to instant RG on day phase and not using SotF has been sufficient thus far. Will on heroic maybe but there's not enough constant damage rolling on normal to justify it imo. The damage is on the tanks and I can roll LB on both tanks vs SotF for?
It works for Feng almost perfectly.
SOTF is Definitely slept on. I did some tests with it last weekend in LFR. It will increase your uptime of WG because you are more keyed in on it(plus the extra ticks). I believe with the 4 set it might be a great Throughput increase.
I think on 1 or 2 fights with 80%+ up time for RJ, and 40%+up time for WG they did almost the same amount of total healing.
I'm actually going to upgrade the Brewmaster Egg Trinket(still waiting on 1 more piece). I wanna see what happens with all 4 pieces plus SOTF and the Egg proc lol
@OP if you see this and you have the Egg run some LFR tests:P
Edit: I saw someone mention mana efficiency. Your mana wil be fine because you are always going to use SM and then WG. They aren't lined up prfectly so if you are getting back 5k mana persecond and they are separated by 2 second you just got back 10k mana. Atleast that's what I noticed in my test.
Edited by Balferest on 12/9/2012 3:37 PM PST
I find I get much more healing with the 4 piece using SOTF (can look up my logs if you want). There are fights such as Windlord that I might still use tree, but with the 4 piece, SOTF has far surpassed any other talent for me. And not that it is an end all or always reflective, All 4 of my top 10 (and I believe 11 out of my 12) top 50 ranks have used SOTF.
You lost me right here.
Not because your point may or may not have validity, but because that exact point seems to work just fine for every single other class.
Why are we the exception? Are we saying that all other theory-crafters and or pro raid sites know everything, except they know nothing about Resto Druids?
Seems like that point you brought up has some flaws in it, one way or another.
For the record, I do not think we're terrible at all. I think we're perfectly fine, but require A LOT more effort (and/or skill) to put out the same amount of effective healing than another healing class.
Just because I think we are perfectly manageable for skilled players does not mean our healing class is not underpowered. I believe we are due to the number of UTTERLY AND COOMPLETELY useless heals we have. Nourish, Healing Touch, Wild Mushrooms. Rejuv, Lifebloom, Wildgrowth, Swiftmend. These are all our non-cd heals. Exactly ONE HALF of these are utterly USELESS and NEVER used (outside of Lifebloom because really it's a tank spell, nothing else. And the 1min cd Natures swiftness paired with healing touch)
Smells like a massive flaw to me if a healing class has half of its healing spells NEVER used because they're just TERRIBLE.
Edited by Tonydanza on 12/9/2012 4:34 PM PST
I change my 6th tier talent somewhat often depending on the situation/fight.
I change the 5th tier talent sometimes as well, depending on if I want burst or a little extra shielding (like on gar'jal for example).
I do tend to stick with the same talents on the other tiers except for the second where i'll switch between body and soul and angelic feathers.
So... no, you aren't the only class/spec that might have to switch to be optimal on every fight, matter of fact, blizzard wants to see it happening for more classes not less (if it isn't happening now).
That's pretty much how it should be... We should technically always be casting something.
Yes, this is our issue atm. We can't use rejuv as much as we need to. We have no other spells except rejuv, so when we're put into a position of "OH GOD THE RAID-- OH MY LIFE" healing we rely on one spell only to do the job: Rejuv.
Like I said before, any rdruid can be OK on mana, even if we're using every global to heal, if we aren't using rejuv. But if we want to be competitive, effective healers and "good" on terms of output, we have to use rejuv. There's nothing else to use.
There is nothing in the rdruid arsenal that is burst aoe-healing, unless you include Tranq. And that's not even burst... It's just kind of like a steroid to regrowth + rejuv combo.
WG may gain more healing, but it's not going to fix the mana problems. And that's our issue, not our output. This is where we're not "fine". Your whole argument seems flawed because you're saying we're OK if we can do more healing. Well, unless you quadruple the amount of healing WG does so we literally don't have to cast any other heal minus LB and the OOC regrowth, we are never going to get out of the ditch we're stuck in.
The only way it would increase your uptime of WG is if you cast it more than you have been. And that has absolutely nothing to do with SoTF. The extra ticks don't make WG last longer, it lowers the intervals between the ticks.
You realize this is really bad, right? WG and Rejuv should be neck and neck in terms of total healing done...
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