WoW is not allowed to have strong females

86 Draenei Paladin
3130
This can be my personal perspective, but I feel the need to voice it out~

1. Sylvanas:
So far she is the only (mildly) strong female character, and she does it by becoming ruthless and lol evil.

2. Jaina:
Finally started to have some guts in Tides of War then becomes more cowardice at the end of it and 5.1

3. Tyrande:
Has been a tolerable but very unimpressive peace-maker. Always tend to the world-saving idealism. Only recently become outrageous at the Horde but as a 10,000 year-old soul, she is very childish and feels like, what many have said, a whiner....

4. And much, much more~~.

eidt: This hurts. it's time we started to make things better
Edited by Sydonis on 12/7/2012 5:17 AM PST
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What about Moira, she is pretty lacking as far as leader ship ability is concerned.

Police states are not okay.
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91 Undead Warlock
7410
Lady Liadrin is a pretty good character, nothing wrong with what they have done with here, but Blizz hasn't really done much with her.

Moira has pentional, really her current problem isn't that she's not a strong female character, but that there's two others that out weigh her in popularity that stand next to her on a daily basis.

Zen'tabra and Varina of the Darkspear are cool.

Garona is isn't a weak character, but isn't overly strong either.

Maiev's progression... actually makes sense, people are just tired of people turning evil, but I don't really see Maiev as that.

Ishannah is the Aldor leader, and seems to be a part of the Alliance now.
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While Jaina does swing back into neutrality after the events of Tides of War, this is but a short-lived result of circumstance.

I also wouldn't equate idealism to cowardice. She would of had a very short reign as Archmage if she moved against the Sunrevers immediately after being appointed without damming evidence against them. It's also just wouldn't be honorable to repay the repeated support of Aethas Sunrever (he voted in favor of sending aide to Theramore, and later supported appointing Jaina as Archmage) with swift and intense hostility.

It isn't until later in the events of 5.1 that it becomes clear that a significant number of Sunrevers have no intention of honoring the city's neutrality, even if Aethas himself does. Her reaction to these developments is...intense.
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90 Human Warlock
5390
12/07/2012 08:34 AMPosted by Falrinn
While Jaina does swing back into neutrality after the events of Tides of War, this is but a short-lived result of circumstance.


Obviously a couple volunteers from a neutral city are worth more than the lion's share of the Alliance's best, yes?

On topic: Zaela is pretty great.
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96 Troll Shaman
5540
I keep seeing this claim, and I can't say I agree with it.

Now, you could very easily make the case there aren't enough strong female characters with major roles in the story or setting. I'd be hard pressed to argue against that particular position.

That said, there are a number of secondary female characters who would fit the descrption of strong characters. The main issue is they aren't very often centre stage.

Zaela, for example, is the leader of an entire orcish clan, enlists the help of the player character in a bold move to free the Dragonmaw from the tyrannical rule of their previous Fel Orc leader, then mobilizes the clan to help the Horde against the Wildhammer and the Twilight Cult, culminating in a pitched battle against one of Cho'gall's top lieutenants.

She's since been dropped from the story, and some people may disagree with her or her methods, but I don't think anyone would argue she isn't a strong character.

Edit: Someone beat me to pointing out Zaela.
Edited by Kellick on 12/7/2012 8:49 AM PST
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100 Night Elf Hunter
19010
WOW has lots of strong ladies. Sky Admiral Rogers, Thisalee Crow, Dragon Ladies, etc.
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
10350
I keep seeing this claim, and I can't say I agree with it.

Now, you could very easily make the case there aren't enough strong female characters with major roles in the story or setting. I'd be hard pressed to argue against that particular position.

That said, there are a number of secondary female characters who would fit the descrption of strong characters. The main issue is they aren't very often centre stage.

Zaela, for example, is the leader of an entire orcish clan, enlists the help of the player character in a bold move to free the Dragonmaw from the tyrannical rule of their previous Fel Orc leader, then mobilizes the clan to help the Horde against the Wildhammer and the Twilight Cult, culminating in a pitched battle against one of Cho'gall's top lieutenants.

She's since been dropped from the story, and some people may disagree with her or her methods, but I don't think anyone would argue she isn't a strong character.

Edit: Someone beat me to pointing out Zaela.


I agree, Wow has strong females! They are just not at the center of all of the happenings all the time like certain other females. ...and perhaps that is a good thing.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11450
12/07/2012 08:45 AMPosted by Kellick
there are a number of secondary female characters who would fit the descrption of strong characters. The main issue is they aren't very often centre stage.
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90 Orc Shaman
7065
You say Sylvanas, but she was a strong character... possibly the strongest of all. She was the head ranger in the battle against Arthas, and even after corruption she was the first to break the Lich King's will. She had a falling out after the Lich King died, but that's because in her storyline that was the climax. Now she is trying to find a new drive, something to keep her going.
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90 Worgen Warlock
16740
Sylvanas is quite strong. In fact, probably the only one I would really call totally strong. She, neither her Forsaken, doesn't take crap of anyone. She's a leader that thinks about results, gains and losses, of whatever action they might take. Of course, she doesn't give a damn about romantic relationships, which is another bonus. It's hard to see an female character that doesn't end up being condemned for not being sentimental or following the typical behavior.

She's the last piece of awesomeness and coherence, which doesn't include being some savior of the world.

Jaina was pretty awful in Icecrown. Lost her entire mind like a teenager, depending of Uther to call her out. Now, in MoP it really got better. Although I didn't like her decision to spare Orgrimmar (totally for gameplay purposes for sure, anyone who got that far would've drowned the whole city), her actions in Dalaran where really cool. Bringing Dalaran back to the Alliance and getting of the Sunweavers for betraying the city's neutrality, again, really brought a good feeling.

Now, Tyrande, is a strong character, but Blizzard doesn't seem to know what that means anymore. She is either walking around like an arm-candy, almost licking Malfurion's boots, and then, the first moment she actually have the opportunity to show her strength, it's promptly show as incompetent by Varian and his prophet senses. She had opportunity to get angry over a dozen of things the Horde have been doing, but nope, she had to wait until Pandaria. I think that's a problem with the entire Night Elf people, btw.

Varian is a problem for both Tyrande and Jaina. Jaina because Varian pulled some diplomatic nonsense with the Blood Elves out of nowhere, right in the moment she had all the reasons to behave as she did. Tyrande, because of Varian "sniffing" a trap out of the blue, with no scouts nor anything, and finally "accepting" Varian as commander due some basic strategy skills (ones she should've had in that moment). Well, the problem is when Blizz pick a character to portray as competent and awesome, it ends up in Mary Sueness, like Thrall, where the character basically loses all his flaws and becomes conveniently perfect.

I guess that's it.
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90 Human Warrior
13525
I don't get how idealism=weak.

Jaina is very staunch in her beliefs ever since WCIII about peace. I think she's a strong woman and at her core as they say not easy to change.

Sylvanas is probably the strongest, sure she's immoral strong enough to stand on her own.

Sky Admiral Rogers is albeit controversial(Note how I said that instead of questionable)

Zaela leading the Dragonmaw, she may not be in the forefront but I think she's strong enough on her own.

Gorgonna stood up to her sister and helped only by herself in Grizzly Hills. She got nerves of steel!

Veressa at least in 5.1 is now >.> without Rhonin

Alleria Windrunner as well, YES SHE IS IN A RELATIONSHIP, THAT IN NO WAY MEANS SHE IS WEAK.

Thisalee is strong or at least assertive

The female Dragon Aspects, DESPITE THEM BEING IN A RELATIONSHIP PREVIOUSLY THEY STILL ARE.
Edited by Lorthuron on 12/7/2012 1:22 PM PST
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90 Dwarf Shaman
3290
lorthuron I think they mean strong women who aren't evil/insane beyond denial, which eliminates sylvanas.

12/07/2012 09:03 AMPosted by Threeslotbag
WOW has lots of strong ladies. Sky Admiral Rogers, Thisalee Crow, Dragon Ladies, etc.


rogers may be going evil possibly, although I hope not.

crow was not a major character.

ysera is to mentally unstable to be considered a strong-willed female.

alexstrasza sure
Edited by Earthbreaka on 12/7/2012 4:00 PM PST
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90 Human Warrior
13525
rogers may be going evil possibly, although I hope not.

crow was not a major character.

ysera is to mentally unstable to be considered a strong-willed female.

alexstrasza sure


It doesn't matter if they're not a major character, it's still a character. How is Ysera mentally unstable? If anything Alexstraza became that in Twilight of the Aspects.

Still strong women.... shouldn't have this narrow view(Only X and X)
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100 Tauren Shaman
14190
rogers may be going evil possibly, although I hope not.

crow was not a major character.

ysera is to mentally unstable to be considered a strong-willed female.

alexstrasza sure


It doesn't matter if they're not a major character, it's still a character. How is Ysera mentally unstable? If anything Alexstraza became that in Twilight of the Aspects.

Still strong women.... shouldn't have this narrow view(Only X and X)


Ysera spent so long in the Emerald Dream, she has problems telling the difference between the dream and the waking world. We dont know if she has gotten a better handle on this issue. She herself recognised it as a problem. I still wouldnt call her weak.

Alexstrasza is as tough as nails regardless of how compassionate she comes across as. She has been through hell and has recovered from it. The fact she isnt a jaded, hatefilled cynic tells us volumes about her.

Moria is a strong character with a deeply flawing weakness. Her sensitivity to her insecurity and daddy issues effects her judgement and her ability to lead through respect rather than fear. If she could get over her issues she would be a very strong female character for the Alliance.

Sylvanas strikes me as desperate and ruthless rather than strong. Shes going to any lengths to protect herself from 'hell'. I wouldnt call her weak but her actions are driven by fear.

Shandris is still a pretty strong female character. Im not impressed with Tyrande but Shandris is still scoring goals for the strong women of WoW.

Jaina hasnt impressed me for a long while. She was pretty lame in Wrath. Sure she would be upset but we saw very little backbone from her. In MoP she seems to be swinging between being idealistic and ruthlessly vengful depending on her state of mind. Again fear and trauma are driving her 'badass' actions.

WoW has strong females. Perhaps not enough in leading roles but they are there. Ill be interested to see what the fate of Rogers is.
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Aggra.

(Well, nobody said they had to be likeable.)
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
9985
12/07/2012 08:36 AMPosted by Tessa
Zaela is pretty great.
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86 Tauren Death Knight
14655
Aggra.

(Well, nobody said they had to be likeable.)
Class 10 Clinger she is.

Not a fan how she was handled in-game though. But in the books she rebuked Thrall even on things such as hiss feelings for Taretha. That takes more than a handful of balls of steel.

But I forget. Any woman within a 10 mile radius of a male is no longer considered a strong woman. Or so Story Forum Logic goes.
Edited by Shimaala on 12/7/2012 6:15 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Priest
13280
Sylv. is above them all the strongest female... No matter if she is or she isnt evil, this doesnt make her weaker as a character :P

Aggra makes the warchief looks like teenager boy... A lot of relationships have one of the couple being like "the leader', on their case I think its her, even Thrall being more important to the world itself :P

Zaela! Was pretty impressed with her, and want to see more of her in action... But since she is the leader of her people, I think she will be much like Rexxar or Nazgrel :-/ Won't be seeing her again for a long long time, probably

Magatha! Yes, she is an evil cow... But a intersting character, with her plots ans schemes... Very strong female...

Alex, our Dragon Queen... :) I think no one needs to justify this one... And is one of the few good ones too XD

mmm...
Thinking about it, WoW doesnt really make much difference between females and males... and to finish my post:

ZAELA FOR WARCHIEF! Ô_Ô
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2 Worgen Priest
0
Ah, yes. The 'We Need More Strong Female Characters, Trademark" thread. I was waiting for another one of these to pop up.
Here's the thing, though. These threads just keep happening and happening, and I've only ever seen them end in 4328938923-page+ celebrations of the fine art of not really knowing what you're talking about at all. I mean, I'm personally all for discussing gender representation in media! And I think there actually are some women in WoW who have the potential to be great characters, even if they might be very minor and somewhat problematic in certain areas. That said, these boards never really seem to accomplish that. I could go into detail why: confusion over what 'strong female character' actually means, confusion over good person vs good character, the 'sexism is over' mindset, pure self-indulgence, etc. But I'm a bitter, sarcastic shell of a woman, so instead I'd like to present you with...

The 'Strong Female Character' Thread Drinking Game (with apologies for length)

- To begin, take a nice healthy swig. If you've spent enough time on the internet (i.e., any at all), then the very term 'Strong Female Character' can be enough to send your mental faculties running in terror. It's good to have a nice foundation of slight drunkenness to go off of.
- Write your will. Your loved ones will thank you later.
- Take a shot if the original post is just a short list of characters the OP has problems with, rather than containing any salient points or discussion openers on character representation.
  • - Toss down another if Tyrande, Aggra, and/or Jaina are on this list. (One shot for each, if you're feeling daring.)
  • - Take a shot every time women are referred to solely as 'females.'
  • - Two shots if male characters are referred to as 'men' in the same breath.
  • - Take a shot for every person who equates 'strong female character' to 'hot babe who Fight Good'.
    - Take a shot for every person who equates 'strong female character' to 'hot babe who Fight Good and only exists to support the faction/single issue I'm entirely obsessed with and never makes any mistakes and is perfectly justified and morally sound in every single thing she does and did I mention hot babe??"
    - Take a shot for obvious hyperbole/strawman, as always.
    - Take a shot for every person who equates 'good character' with 'good person' or 'person I agree with'.
    - Take a shot for every person who's obviously roleplaying.
    - Take a shot if nobody can decide what Jaina's characterization actually is.
    - Take a shot every time the term 'Arm Candy' comes up.
  • - Another if they're talking about Aggra.
  • - If someone complains about aforesaid 'Arm Candy' characters and yet has no problems whatsoever with women in the story who are pretty satellite-y in non-romantic ways, take another.
  • - Yet another shot if they actually capitalize 'Arm Candy' without any irony whatsoever.
  • - Call the emergency services while you still can.
    - Take a shot every time someone equates finding a single aspect of a character problematic to hating the entire character, the character's family, and anything within a 20 mile radius of the character with a fiery passion.
    - Take several shots for every time the word 'feminazi' is used. Punch a baby to make yourself feel better.
    - Take a shot whenever somebody tries to refute the OP by listing bit characters they thought were Kinda Cool.
  • -Take another if anyone mentioThisalee Crow Thisalee Crow Thisalee Crow Thisalee Crow Thisalee Crow Thisalee Crow Thisalee Crow Thisalee Crow Thisalee Crow Thisalee Crow
  • - Down the bottle if you see the word 'b*tch' being bandied around like New Year's confetti.
    - Take a shot if 'Mary Sue'.
    - Every time the Ji Firepaw Incident is brought up, crush a kitten in your bare hand.
    - A shot every time someone equates authority or power to strong writing.
    - A nice long swig for every 'silly feminists, don't you know that Sexism is Over???' post. Tears are permitted at this point.
    - A shot for every poster who condemns a character for being sexual or in a relationship.
    - Put the bottle down, get down on your knees, and thank the lord if an actual(ly good) point is made, regardless of your own religious or spiritual beliefs. Bonus points if it's one that hasn't been made approximately 41324601 times already.
    - By this point, an ambulance should be on its way.
    - Take a shot every time a level 20 worgen in a top hat makes gratuitous sexual comments about Lorna Crowley.
    - Take a shot every time I make gratuitous sexual comments about Lorna Crowley.
    - Take a shot for genuinely incomprehensible capslocking/syntax.
    - Fall to the floor tearfully belting "My Heart Will Go On" if any two(or more) people start arguing about Sky Admiral Rogers.
  • - Do an encore if anyone goes out of their way to portray her as a Soulless Malevolent Harpy Virago Who Probably Eats Babies.
  • - Take a shot for every poster who says/implies some variation of "calm down, Ladies"
    - Take a shot every time a woman is deemed 'too insane' or 'too unstable' to be a good character. We all know women with mental illnesses aren't actually people, a ha ha ha.
    - Take a shot any time it's implied that fear, desperation, or doubt make a character 'weak.'
    - Take a shot if either (or both) of the two things happen:
  • - A poster reduces the entire issue of gender and representation in WoW to skimpy armor, or
  • - A poster flips out if anyone so much as mentions skimpy armor, because skimpy armor on everyone ever is sacrosanct in fantasy or something.
  • - Take a shot if either (or both) of these two things happen:
  • - A poster insinuates that Blizzard is made up of card-carrying Misogynists who sit around their Man Office twirling their Man Mustaches coming up with Manly Ways to alienate women, or
  • - A poster insinuates that misogyny is only misogyny if it's completely deliberate, and that you can't be sexist unless you're a Joss Whedon villain.
  • - When the thread devolves hopelessly into Sylvanas-chat, smash the bottle over your head with a bestial cry of rage and throw your computer through a window.
  • -Likewise if the thread devolves into a factional circle jerk, although admittedly one doesn't come without the other.
  • - Down whatever you have left and cry yourself to sleep if you actually entered this thread thinking it would amount to something useful, again.
    Edited by Lucithy on 12/8/2012 6:09 AM PST
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