So what were the consequences of Theramore...

58 Undead Death Knight
120
... exploding? Haven't played or kept up to date with WoW stuff for quite a while, and my searches are giving me conflicted information (specially bout the Sunreavers). Anyone want to fuel my laziness and give me a run down or point me out to one?
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
3505
Absolutely goddamed nothing. Jaina is more neutral than ever, no retaliatory strike is launched, and the Alliance is once again portrayed as the pointlessly white-knight moron that couldn't find their !@# with both hands.

Really, it's just another part of the setup to bring Thrall back.
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90 Orc Warrior
10290
Absolutely goddamed nothing. Jaina is more neutral than ever, no retaliatory strike is launched, and the Alliance is once again portrayed as the pointlessly white-knight moron that couldn't find their !@# with both hands.

Really, it's just another part of the setup to bring Thrall back.


Yeah, Jaina is so neutral she expels the Sunreavers from Dalaran and delivers it straight into the arms of the Alliance.

Not that I'm complaining, it honestly was long overdue. I'm just pointing how ridiculous it is to say Jaina is still neutral.
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90 Draenei Paladin
10700
Except that the Sunreaver situation required another attack. She went back to proclaiming her hope for the Alliance and Horde working together after Theramore.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
17250
Yeah, in the end there were literally no consequences at all.

In MoP the Alliance don't care at all about Theramore or vengeance. They are there to save the Pandaerans, flowers, and puppies.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10315
If I might, alot of the npcs mention Theramore as the driving reason for motivation in combat. The new rares use it as a battle cry.

I personally have strong feelings for Theramore, and after Anduin Wrynn dies, Jaina does relinquish Dalaran to the fight against Garrosh.
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90 Undead Warlock
5995
12/09/2012 01:12 AMPosted by Sãlly
I personally have strong feelings for Theramore, and after Anduin Wrynn dies, Jaina does relinquish Dalaran to the fight against Garrosh.


Anduin doesn't die.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
14910
No consequences.
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1 Blood Elf Rogue
0
12/09/2012 02:15 AMPosted by Cbredbeard
No consequences.

Literally nothing. Even the obvious implications of the Alliance losing their only major military base in that region of Kalimdor aren't really touched upon.

To the point where if they retconned the whole event, all they'd have to do is remove the lines of dialog that mention it.

Edit: Nevermind. Rhonin dying and Jaina becoming the new head of the Kirin Tor is the big major development from Theramore.

Tides of War seems like an awful lot of exposition just to kill off this one character though.
Edited by Aureus on 12/9/2012 2:32 AM PST
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90 Undead Warlock
11815
War. War in Pandaria or however it is spelled.

/end thread.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
14910
War. War in Pandaria or however it is spelled.

/end thread.


Would've fought there regardless.

12/09/2012 02:27 AMPosted by Aureus
No consequences.

Literally nothing. Even the obvious implications of the Alliance losing their only major military base in that region of Kalimdor aren't really touched upon.

To the point where if they retconned the whole event, all they'd have to do is remove the lines of dialog that mention it.

Edit: Nevermind. Rhonin dying and Jaina becoming the new head of the Kirin Tor is the big major development from Theramore.

Tides of War seems like an awful lot of exposition just to kill off this one character though.


Worst part is, Jania is effectively full-filling his role the same way he would have.
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90 Draenei Shaman
11990
Except that the Sunreaver situation required another attack. She went back to proclaiming her hope for the Alliance and Horde working together after Theramore.


Varian sent you as well? I'm outnumbered in my own city!
<Jaina's eyes flash mischieveously.>
Let's go about this a different way. Put yourself in my shoes. Imagine that YOU are the leader of the Kirin Tor. <Name>! The most powerful archmage in all of Azeroth!
What would YOU do?

*I would commit our order to an Alliance victory!
Spoken like a stalwart Alliance <class>! Believe me, I understand the sentiment.
Now then, as leader of the Kirin Tor and a faithful part of the Alliance, what would you do about the Sunreavers? True, they are advocates of the Horde. But they hav been allies and productive members of the Kirin Tor for over 2000 years. This city is their home. Would you expel them?

*Yes. Horde is Horde
.<Jaina's eyes grow sad.>
So... you would purge the city? Cast the Sunreavers from their homes? The very same Sunreavers who helped humans discover magic in the first place?
You and I are obviously very different. I suppose I see my role - and the mission of the Kirin Tor a little differently. My mind is set. Would you like to hear what I think?
What do you think?

*Not if they renounced the Horde.
<Jaina brushes her hair from her eyes, deep in thought.>
You're so passionate for your cause and clear in your convictions. Believe me when I say that the Sunreavers are the same. The Horde is their family.
Not all of them support Garrosh. But they're not about to abandon their own people... I couldn't ask them to do so without tearing the Kirin Tor apart.
The Kirin Tor is sacred to me. We need to stay united.
*Are you sure?

*I would struggle to maintain our neutrality.
Ah! A very bold decision in times like these. Your honesty is refreshing!
Tell me, leader of the Kirin Tor, what if the Horde killed your friends? Your family? Destroyed everything you had. Could you maintain your convictions even then, Archmage <name>?

*Yes - The Kirin Tor must remain above such faction squabbles.
<Jaina smiles.>
If only we all shared your strength and conviction! To be honest, I struggle. Every. Day.
But you are right. The Kirin Tor is bigger than you, me, Alliance or Horde. I have a responsibility to preserve it, and to use its powers wisely.
You and I seem to agree. I doubt the King sees it that way. But... do you think we can convince Anduin?
* Let's talk to him.

*I'm not sure I could.
<Jaina warms to you immediately.>
A kindred soul! Thank you, <name>, for your honesty. You seem to understand my struggle. Every day, the hard decisions. Every night... the nightmares.
But I have a responsibility to preserve the Kirin Tor. I'm glad you're with me on this. The King would nver see it this way. Do you think we can explain it to Anduin?
*Let's talk to him.


I decided to include that because it explain why Jaina was trying to be neutral and it does make sense. What exactly do people want Jaina to do? Simply purge the Sunreavers, who have been members of the Kirin Tor long before Jaina became leader? People make it sound like Jaina hasnt thought about this alot.

In MoP the Alliance don't care at all about Theramore or vengeance. They are there to save the Pandaerans, flowers, and puppies.


"This ones for Theramore" was one of the first lines in MoP an Alliance player would hear.

12/09/2012 03:06 AMPosted by Cbredbeard
Would've fought there regardless.


The Alliance now has the Kirin Tor back. Without ToW that wouldnt have occured.
Edited by Zerde on 12/9/2012 4:28 AM PST
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90 Tauren Shaman
13310
12/09/2012 12:52 AMPosted by Arkturas
Except that the Sunreaver situation required another attack. She went back to proclaiming her hope for the Alliance and Horde working together after Theramore.


We steal the bell. Thats it. Thats the big 'attack'. I dont think we even kill anyone during the theft.

12/09/2012 04:27 AMPosted by Zerde
decided to include that because it explain why Jaina was trying to be neutral and it does make sense. What exactly do people want Jaina to do? Simply purge the Sunreavers, who have been members of the Kirin Tor long before Jaina became leader? People make it sound like Jaina hasnt thought about this alot.


Its sounds nice but I dont think it was going to ever work in practice. The only way it could is if either both sides accepted that their members would be involved in supporting their respective factions or if neither side was allowed to.

Again the fact she gets upset because horde use Sunreaver resources to recover the Bell and calls it betrayal would hold more ground if she wasnt playing defense for the alliance at the time.

In short, she talks big but when tested her words held no weight.

Jaina should have made a choice right at the start. If the sunreavers were forbidden from supporting the horde that should have been set down and enforced from the moment she took over.
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81 Human Mage
1295
"we steal the bell, that's it"

It's a superweapon. One that in the hands of Garrosh, can do very bad things.

It would be like if the Japanese got the Red Cross to steal the United States Military's plan for the nuclear weapons during WW2 and then trying to build one of their own.
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90 Draenei Shaman
11990
12/09/2012 04:46 AMPosted by Trook
In short, she talks big but when tested her words held no weight.


Maybe, but I also find her actions, while reprehensible, completely logical for her character as well. She tried to give peace another chance and when that didnt turn out as she hope she went totally berserk. And considering this is a woman that could have wiped out Orgrimmar long ago I dont think its fair to say she was being hypocritical. She was simply put into a bad spot by the Horde and had to do something about it.

Its sounds nice but I dont think it was going to ever work in practice. The only way it could is if either both sides accepted that their members would be involved in supporting their respective factions or if neither side was allowed to.

Again the fact she gets upset because horde use Sunreaver resources to recover the Bell and calls it betrayal would hold more ground if she wasnt playing defense for the alliance at the time.


Considering the Kirin Tor's goal of preventing magic from being abused I think Jaina just thought it was part of the Kirin Tor duty to prevent Garrosh from getting the bell. Granted I doubt the Sunreavers saw it that way.

Jaina should have made a choice right at the start. If the sunreavers were forbidden from supporting the horde that should have been set down and enforced from the moment she took over.


I assume that is implied by the quest. That Dalaran as a whole is neutral. Dalaran, and its members, would not be supporting there respective factions but wouldnt totally cut off there connections.
Edited by Zerde on 12/9/2012 5:03 AM PST
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12/09/2012 04:27 AMPosted by Zerde
I decided to include that because it explain why Jaina was trying to be neutral and it does make sense. What exactly do people want Jaina to do? Simply purge the Sunreavers, who have been members of the Kirin Tor long before Jaina became leader? People make it sound like Jaina hasnt thought about this alot.


Yeah, plus I think a lot of people seem to be under the impression that once the Six said she was Archmage, Jaina had limitless and unchecked power over Dalaran that no one would challenge...ever.

Even if she technically had the authority to purge the Sunreavers from day 1, in practice it would probably only result in her being stripped of her title. The fact that Aethas Sunreaver had been nothing but supportive of Jaina is also a factor here, as one does not repay support with hostility.

It wasn't until it became clear that a significant number of Sunreavers were in fact acting in direct support of Garrosh that Jaina was even in a position to purge the Sunreavers. The amusing thing is, Aethas was probably innocent all along, he is no fan of Garrosh and only remained part of the Horde out of loyalty to his homeland.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
6150
12/09/2012 04:46 AMPosted by Trook
Except that the Sunreaver situation required another attack. She went back to proclaiming her hope for the Alliance and Horde working together after Theramore.


We steal the bell. Thats it. Thats the big 'attack'. I dont think we even kill anyone during the theft.


That's because you get caught before you can use it. That's like saying a terrorist shouldn't go to jail because he didn't use that bomb strapped to his chest yet.
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90 Human Warrior
14465
Alliance got really steamed then! It wasn't every other act of war leading up to that, it was Theramore!
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90 Undead Warlock
5995
12/09/2012 07:52 AMPosted by Mordstreich
Alliance got really steamed then! It wasn't every other act of war leading up to that, it was Theramore!


Yeah! Who cares about Gilneas! or Horde trolls attacking Elves! Or the Horde bombing Southshore! Or the invasion of Ashenvale!

those were just petty squabbles that the Alliance should never had par took in.
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90 Human Warlock
5390
Nothing. It had no meaningful impact on the story.

And yeah, some Alliance NPCs do shout 'FOR THERAMORE' or some !@#$ like that.

Jaina doesn't care. What right do they, or we, if she doesn't?
Edited by Tessa on 12/9/2012 8:50 AM PST
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