Where is Valeera Sanguinar?

90 Tauren Shaman
13350
12/10/2012 08:51 PMPosted by Fyersing
This is the thing I take issue with. Some, yeah, but I think any 'sizeable' portion of blood elves wanting to go back to the Alliance is wishful thinking. They're smug, immature, self-centered jerks.


An excerpt from Lor'themar Theron: In the Shadow of the Sun by Sarah Pine:

Lor'themar stood and went to the shelf to top up his drink. "I worry that if we give him authority to act on our behalf, he would—intentionally or not—promise something from us that I am not willing to give." Lor'themar paused and looked toward the carved ceiling. "Then again, if enough sin'dorei follow him to Dalaran, he will end up their de facto leader anyway, and I am loath to have him acting as such without obligation to the cro—Silvermoon."


Emphasis mine. He's at the very least concerned that enough Blood Elves are interested in rekindling old allegiances that he's willing to loosen his grip on them so as not to push them away.


That was Dalaran, not the Alliance. The HE's have always been strongly tied to the Kirin Tor, having been instrimental in its formation. Keal'thas was once one of the Six.

The Alliance on the other hand the bulk of the HE population broke of membership with after the second war. For that matter it took alot of arm twisting by Lothar to get them to get invested in the war against the orcs to start with originally.

In short, BE attitudes towards Dalaran does not equal DE attitudes towards the Alliance.
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90 Tauren Shaman
13350
12/10/2012 04:48 PMPosted by Jaelara
But I do believe that there should be at least a small chunk of Blood Elves who sympathize with their former allies and former kinspeople, the Alliance and High Elves, and would prefer to work with them even at risk of exile from Silvermoon. Like I said, we already know some of them existed in the early days of BC, but they were all mind controlled or beaten into submission by the Silvermoon Government.


By definition this would make them High Elves, not Blood Elves. The difference is basicly political. You already have those. Youve had them since vanilla.
Edited by Trook on 12/10/2012 9:05 PM PST
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90 Human Mage
16265
12/10/2012 09:05 PMPosted by Trook
By definition this would make them High Elves, not Blood Elves. The difference is basicly political. You already have those. Youve had them since vanilla.


No, it's also biological.

High Elves are to Blood Elves as Mag'har are to green-skinned orcs. Exposure to the fel taint is the defining difference.

Otherwise the Scryers and Valeera would be High Elves, when they are clearly Blood Elves.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12185
12/10/2012 09:03 PMPosted by Trook
That was Dalaran, not the Alliance. The HE's have always been strongly tied to the Kirin Tor, having been instrimental in its formation. Keal'thas was once one of the Six.


This being the same Dalaran that was, for thousands of years, in cohorts with the Arathorian Empire? The same Dalaran that most of the people in this very forum described as having been "neutral, but not-so-secretly pro-Alliance"?

12/10/2012 09:03 PMPosted by Trook
The Alliance on the other hand the bulk of the HE population broke of membership with after the second war. For that matter it took alot of arm twisting by Lothar to get them to get invested in the war against the orcs to start with originally.


The elves are staunchly self-aggrandizing, they don't like entering compacts which can be avoided or don't directly benefit them -- this is a trait seen as far back as the Troll Wars. This explains why they wouldn't want to fight in the Second War (until the threat became real for them as well) and as well why they would seek to immediately emancipate from that arrangement once hostilities died down.

12/10/2012 09:03 PMPosted by Trook
In short, BE attitudes towards Dalaran does not equal DE attitudes towards the Alliance.


Perhaps. The city was, however, built thousands of years ago by humans and for humans and then further populated and protected by elves; their stint as a "neutral" body existed for perhaps a few short years and even then, that "neutrality" was merely a compromise made to end a grave threat to all life.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6155
No, it's also biological.

High Elves are to Blood Elves as Mag'har are to green-skinned orcs. Exposure to the fel taint is the defining difference.

Otherwise the Scryers and Valeera would be High Elves, when they are clearly Blood Elves.


No, the Scryers are still allied with Quel'thalas. They have not defected nor have they been exiled, thus they remain blood elves. Also prior to the fel taint, Kael'thas had already renamed High Blood, Blood Elves. Valeera may identify herself as a Blood Elf in honor of the fallen since she was a victim of the Scourge.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
10030
12/10/2012 09:32 PMPosted by Fyersing
This being the same Dalaran that was, for thousands of years, in cohorts with the Arathorian Empire? The same Dalaran that most of the people in this very forum described as having been "neutral, but not-so-secretly pro-Alliance"?


At the time there neutrality wasnt questioned even here at the lore forums.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
6660
Egrem gave some examples about the extent of Valeera's loyalty:

Valeera swore to protect Anduin with her life, threw herself into harm's way to save him on multiple occasions, and even gave him a little training on how to fight.


To top that off, a few have already mentioned her imprisonment by the Horde and her allegiance being strictly to King Varian and the House of Wrynn. It sounds like the concept of factions has left a sour taste for her, so she keeps her loyalty to someone with whom she's shed blood, sweat and tears.

Seeing her as Anduin's bodyguard would fit rather nicely, if at least just to bring her back into the story.
Edited by Wensicía on 12/10/2012 9:43 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12185
12/10/2012 09:34 PMPosted by Shaithiss
At the time there neutrality wasnt questioned even here at the lore forums.


The second sentence was referring to Dalaran post-Third War, didn't make that very evident. :/
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
10030
12/10/2012 09:44 PMPosted by Fyersing
The second sentence was referring to Dalaran post-Third War, didn't make that very evident. :/


Um I'm aware of that? You brought in how some of us here question Dalaran's neutrality but those questions didn't come up until Theramore, the only ones that existed were why it was still neutral around that time.

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding what you meant here.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12185
So you're saying that nobody questioned their "neutrality", but rather they wondered why they were "neutral" because... based on the evidence they were obviously pro-Alliance? It sounds like what you're suggesting is that the commonplace opinion from the onset of WotLK was:

"It's totally evident that Dalaran is neutral now, totally, they are equally invested in the Horde and the Alliance but they're also totally biased in favor of the Alliance."
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
10030
So you're saying that nobody questioned their "neutrality", but rather they wondered why they were "neutral" because... based on the evidence they were obviously pro-Alliance? It sounds like what you're suggesting is that the commonplace opinion from the onset of WotLK was:

"It's totally evident that Dalaran is neutral now, totally, they are equally invested in the Horde and the Alliance but they're also totally biased in favor of the Alliance."


No what I'm saying is that the common complaint was "Dalaran is tottaly neutral but why should they be with the Forsaken attacking them?" sorry for the miscomunication there.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12185
I'm drawing a blank on precisely when this Dalaran-Forsaken conflict occurred, to be honest.

I recall the city being annihilated by the Burning Legion and everybody either being killed or fleeing, then the Kirin Tor came back and erected that enormous shield that used to be in Hillsbrad / Alterac Mountains. Am I missing something?
Edited by Fyersing on 12/10/2012 10:24 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
17285
The Forsaken had quests to kill magi affiliated with Dalaran in Ambermill and at the Dalaran bubble. In Cataclysm, they got quests to kill more magi in Ambermill and at the Dalaran crater.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Practical_Vengeance
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90 Night Elf Priest
16545
I'm drawing a blank on precisely when this Dalaran-Forsaken conflict occurred, to be honest.

I recall the city being annihilated by the Burning Legion and everybody either being killed or fleeing, then the Kirin Tor came back and erected that enormous shield that used to be in Hillsbrad / Alterac Mountains. Am I missing something?


Back in Classic, the Forsaken players had quests to kill Dalaran mages in Silverpine, before they became neutral. Back then, they were all Alliance-sided.
Later, in Cata, the Forsaken players still have a quest to kill Dalaran mages, even though they were neutral after the events of Wrath. Blizz has stated that its the result of miscommunications and shouldn't have happened. No idea if it will be ret-conned or not.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
10030
12/10/2012 10:24 PMPosted by Fyersing
I recall the city being annihilated by the Burning Legion and everybody either being killed or fleeing, then the Kirin Tor came back and erected that enormous shield that used to be in Hillsbrad / Alterac Mountains. Am I missing something?


Back before and durring cata, the forsaken had quests that had you go out and kill some kirin tor mages outside the bubble that was Dalaran (before cata) and after both Netherguard (the kirin torish fortress in the blasted lands) and for a while the post cata versions of the quest had people questioning why Dalaran didn't seem to care. Then Tides of War came out and Dalarans nuetrality became questionable (in this case meaning "They say they are neutral but obviously favor the alliance")
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
12/10/2012 10:24 PMPosted by Fyersing
I recall the city being annihilated by the Burning Legion and everybody either being killed or fleeing, then the Kirin Tor came back and erected that enormous shield that used to be in Hillsbrad / Alterac Mountains. Am I missing something?


The Dalaran mages went into Tirisfal and started working on the leylines there, the Forsaken took this as an act of aggression and went after them, mostly because Dalar Dawnweaver hates them and is a sociopath.
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90 Human Mage
16265
No, the Scryers are still allied with Quel'thalas.


No, they're not. They're neutral in the Alliance-Horde conflict, which means that they have no more loyalty to Quel'thalas than to Stormwind.

Or how could I be Exalted with them?
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90 Night Elf Priest
16545
12/10/2012 10:30 PMPosted by Skytotem
I recall the city being annihilated by the Burning Legion and everybody either being killed or fleeing, then the Kirin Tor came back and erected that enormous shield that used to be in Hillsbrad / Alterac Mountains. Am I missing something?


The Dalaran mages went into Tirisfal and started working on the leylines there, the Forsaken took this as an act of aggression and went after them, mostly because Dalar Dawnweaver hates them and is a sociopath.


Mostly due to being an ex-Dalaran archmage too, not to forget. He probably blames Dalaran for not stopping Arthas and causing his death.
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
12/10/2012 10:35 PMPosted by Resileaf
Mostly due to being an ex-Dalaran archmage too, not to forget. He probably blames Dalaran for not stopping Arthas and causing his death.


12/10/2012 10:30 PMPosted by Skytotem
mostly because Dalar Dawnweaver hates them and is a sociopath.


It's like people don't think I know what I'm talkin about
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
12185
Ah, I thought you were talking about the actual city being attacked. I see what you're saying now and I actually remember questing their on my old Forsaken.

The question then becomes that if it was so very self-evident that, regardless of their official status, the city was unmistakably in political cohorts with the Alliance then how can anybody say that those Blood Elves which opted of their own accord (knowing the above to be true) to rejoin their former friends in Dalaran aren't even remotely open to the idea of rejoining the Alliance officially?
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