Topic
Mana Regen Imbalances? looking for input
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Edited by Furcadia on 12/7/12 9:08 AM (PST)
I was looking at my guild logs and I noticed mana regen doesn't seem balanced but I wanted to get input from other classes to see if it is or if I'm missing something.
Here is a link to our empress kill last night, healing done: http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-830b1yd6j1p2jm7l/sum/healingDone/?s=12636&e=13174 Here are the mana gain breakdowns (not counting Hymn and Potion of focus which we all gained relatively similar amounts from), I ignored any mana gains that were insignifcantly small. Monk(9811 spirit 11074 mp5): 970761 Mana Tea 60984 Energize mana Total: 1,031745 Disc Priest(11404 spirit 12872 mp5) Rapture: 819790 Mana Leech: 350633 Total: 1,170423 Shaman(couldnt get his exact sprirt) Resurgence: 332152 Water Shield: 120048 Total: 452200 Druid(10870 spirit -12269 mp5) Innervate: 180000 Total: 180000 Is this standard? From what I can tell we are all gaining a similar range from spirit mp5, are spell costs for disc priests and monks high enough to balance out the massively larger amounts of regen they get? In terms of spell break down the top healing spells from each of us were: Monk Uplift: 27.8% 2 chi Renewing Mist: 27.3% All other spells sub 10% Disc Priest Divine Aegis: 26.1% Prayer of Healing: 21.2% Spirit SHell 15.8% All other spells sub 10% Shaman Healing Rain: 24.1% Healing Tide: 14.4% Healing Stream Totem: 14.2% Chain Heal: 13.9% All other spells sub 10% Druid Rejuvenation: 32.5% 8.6k mnana Wildgrowth: 25.3% 13.7k mana Lifebloom: 12.5% 5.9% 3.5k mana All other spells sub 10% Do the spells relied on heavily by the monk and disc preist cost a lot? It seemed like a lot of them were procs, so I had trouble calculating what it costs for them. Any feedback is always welcome, if I'm doing something wrong I'm happy to know as well. Cheers! |
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Edited by Amasis on 12/7/12 9:22 AM (PST)
Damn, the priest is spamming PoH to roll the DA absorbs.
Sigh. Edit: I haven't done this fight on normal mode, so it may be that he is actually using the correct spells and not spamming, but there is a discussion going on in another thread about this play style becoming prevalent. That and his Rapture returns are OP. |
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Edited by Harpoa on 12/7/12 9:22 AM (PST)
They both have good mana return when played well. It is why monks spell costs were just increased dramatically and why discs will be crushed to the ground in coming weeks. edit: and to go a little bit further druid mana regen needs to be fixed, they should get a self revitalize back or something along those lines. |
As Kaels said in another thread about Holy Concentration, I doubt it. They took Revitalize away at the same time they removed Judgement of the Pure/Holy Concentration, I don't see Revitalize coming back.
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I meant more of a mana return mechanic that does not provide a benefit to other party/raid members but with the same basic design. x spell cause x amount of mana per x seconds. |
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We'll see. GC still seems to be on the "Druids are fine" train. I don't necessarily agree, but I don't think they need anything big.
I think Druids would basically be fixed if you could use Rejuv for clearcasting. |
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So do monk and disc priest spells cost that much to justify the much larger returns? I'm not complaining about going OOM, I manage my mana carefully. Do other healers have to do the same though?
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it's not just about returns, there's free spell procs for some classes as well
and yeh, monk spells cost an absolute bomb right now Damn, the priest is spamming PoH to roll the DA absorbslol when do priests ever do anything except spam meter-cheesing aoe spells? |
So do monk and disc priest spells cost that much to justify the much larger returns? I'm not complaining about going OOM, I manage my mana carefully. Do other healers have to do the same though? Monks yes, 5.1 and post 5.1 hotfixes increased their spell costs dramatically to account for the Ascension + Crit/Mana Tea + faster Chi via Soothing. One could argue they got nerfed too hard. Disc, no. Prayer of Healing costs as much as a Holy's Prayer of Healing. Rapture also currently works with Mana Tide totem and if your Restoration Shaman is packing 10k spirit, Rapture could return 40k additional mana per proc. If time correctly he can get 2 procs during 1 MTT duration. This is on top of the normal spirit regen MTT gives. I'm still shocked monks get slapped so hard and fast after 5.1 landed yet Disc hasn't been addressed yet. At least negate the MTT synergy. |
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Short answer is, yes, the spell costs are balanced. Mana for Disc priests is a bit outta line, and for monks it's a little tight, but shamans and druids are more-or-less balanced.
Long answer: Remember that things like Rapture, Resurgence, and Mana Tea all cost mana in order to get that return. Resurgence and Mana Tea are particularly mana-negative, in that it's impossible to get more mana back than you put in. But logs don't show the net gain in mana -- only the raw mana returns. Conversely, using Clearcasting procs doesn't show up in logs at all, so we don't know how much mana a druid saved. |
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Mana management is far more complicated than just how much regen you have. Try to figure out how much regen Holy Paladins get when you consider their largest source of healing is "free", or that it isn't free at all because their other spells cost more than average.
Clearcasting for Druids is a likewise freebee mana. You gained clearcasting 39 times during that log, meaning you could have cast up to 39 regrowths (17.8kish mana) worth almost 700k mana overall. But yeah, you really can't just look at Mana Gained when you talk about regen since base spell costs and spell discounts all matter too. (you also missed the passive water shield mp5 increase, what shows up in logs is only the procs from taking damage) |
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it's not just about returns, there's free spell procs for some classes as well Sorry you are hurt. When the high damage comes in, what are we SUPPOSED to cast hmm? I use all tools at my disposal but it's not our fault that is our go to AOE spell. Good lord you really can't complain. Healing Rain cheese says hi. |
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Is there a system that looks at mana spent? That would be really interesting to look at but I'm not sure how to do this.
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Hey, you guys remember how Resto druids were in pve during wotlk and cata, we could spam rejuv all day throughout the whole fight, easy mode.
Now innervate is not enough, especially over long fights. Heroic 5-mans and short fights are more then fine to do as a druid, it's the longer fights like raids that makes them have to be super effecient on what spells they cast. Shamans are alright but suffer when the group is not close enough to benefit from their aoe heals, it gets annoying, especially in 10 mans. |
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Edited by Uglytrolgurl on 12/7/12 12:44 PM (PST)
The mana cost you have posted are misrepresented
Look at it this way Monks Renewing mist cost is 19,500 mana, Monks Healing is very very expensive atm |
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No! We don't need class-specific regen mechanics, we need to balance the relative efficiency of the different healing specs. Adding any sort of new mechanic to fix a longevity imbalance does little more than add one more variable to be balanced. |
settle down sooky britches, it was just a dig. I've actually raided with priests who let people die because 'casting a poh on their group would only have healed two people' I raid 10man with a priest, healing rain is only any use when 4-5 or more people are stacked in one place. outside of stacking fights most of my healing is from healing wave/ghw, riptide and healing stream totem on single targets |
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I am finding my druid's mana easier to manage as I approach 500 GS. In addition my play style has changed somewhat since I focus more on tanks and specific players who've taken a lot of damage and leave the smaller raid heals to our disc and shaman. I also have my grid set up to show when our priest is bombing SS/PoH so I know when I can just sit on my a$$ and regen. Of course that puts me at the bottom of the meters but who cares really.
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The mana cost you have posted are misrepresented How much does uplift cost? I apologize. I wasn't saying the numbers I posted were representative of the big picture, I was asking for more information so I could understand them better. |
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The mana cost you have posted are misrepresented In order to Uplift, at a bare minimum, Monks must pay 39000 mana, unless they have glyphed Uplift, in which case it will cost them 39000 mana + 18000 mana. |
