Topic Paladin Tanking Help?!?
Edited by Harles on 12/7/12 9:46 AM (PST)
I could use some advise.
I have been tanking as a paladin since early on in Cata. I had absolutely NO issues what so ever once i capped out my avoidance. Now comes MoP. I have read thread after thread and although most discuss the same strategies and numbers i am still having some major issues with Aggro.
Heroics and dungeons i have 0 issues holding aggro. my damage is 1st or 2nd.
But in RAID i fight any other tank constantly for any sort of aggro. Single target i can usually keep on myself as long as the other tank does not taunt, by popping holy avenger and smashing a target again and again. BUT in a mob of 3 or more i have no hope in hell of getting them rounded up and stuck on me. For example. I will be the first to run into a mob, Slam concencreate and holy wrath, (i use an add on tidy plates treat meter to see what i have aggro on,) everything will come on me as planned but as soon as any other tank or even a dps doing aoe come in it pulls 90% of the mob off me. The tank can easily pull 100% with 0 effort.
A little about me and my setup
I have changed my build a few times trying to find what works best for me. I am currently running Hit and Expt Capped (7.5 hit 15 expt) reforged to accomplish this. I have plenty of stam. I have started to reforge into Haste for more damage. (since going this route i have taken my dps from 20k to 55k and higher). Haste i have played with and may be wrong in using but my damage has gone up significantly. I run the seal that heals me constantly (sorry cant member the name off hand) which im sure helps out healers. I dont take alot of damage but its not uncommon to all of a sudden take a spike in damage, in which case i will use a damage reduction CD or just pop a Word of Glory on myself. My I lvl is 472 i think and i am using all tank gear. I am not "failing" at tanking by any means but the aggro thing is driving me crazy. I setup my buddy as a warr tank (his first time tanking ever) and he was able to pull aggro off me with very little effort. (his thunder clap). I can easily get 1 or two targets back by taunting but as you know pallys have 1 taunt now and 20sec CD.... (Not sure what blizz is getting at on this..) How can i increase threat output?
I would appreciate any helpful information that someone could provide for me. I hope i have enough info on this to get my point across.
Edited by Darpalta on 12/7/12 9:43 AM (PST)
The other tanks just seem to have more frontloaded AoE aggro than we do right now, ours is steady but relatively weak overall. Once you lose some mobs and the other tank gets vengeance instead of you its over, no chance of coming back without taunts.
I can't say I've had such a terrible time in that regard, but I only do LFR right now so the other tanks I'm will are usually awful.
Its also possible your co-tanks are getting Tricks'd/Misdirected, not that that will make a huge difference but if it causes mobs to stick to them instead of you for even a few seconds it simply exacerbates the issue.
If all else fails, you can always BoP or Salv the other tank.
Beyond that you can tighten up your reforging ever so slightly to waste less Hit and Expertise but the ~100 rating you make up won't make or break your AoE ability. Even going for a lot more Haste won't do much as we need the increase in burst AoE, not sustained which Haste would give us.
I got you up to 1k Haste at the cost of 300 Mastery. That's about all that would make any difference in that scenario beyond strength/crit stacking for some reason.
Also, enchant your shoulders :P.
Our level 90 Talents make or break our AoE threat capabilities. Holy Prism is by far the best choice for AoE Threat. It hits very hard even without vengeance, and even harder with it.
I Always pull trash with unglyphed Avenger Shield, following up with using holy prism on myself which damages the 5 closest mobs to me giving valuable threat which should fuel my vengeance bar. At that point I use holy wrath while I'm just outside of melee range, then HotR and finally consecrate. A small tip is make sure Avenger Shield is ON Cooldown before using HotR or Crusader Strike. You don't want to waste those juicy Procs.
All in all Holy prism should give enough "snap" aggro to get you into your rotation.
I do as well use Seal of insight for the massive amount of healing it provides.
If I know 100% my health is going to be fine I'll sometimes use Seal of Righteousness for the small addition to AoE it provides.
I hope this helps you.
I'm kind of in the same boat as you, only my tanking partner is a 492 Guardian Druid. I just can't compete with her on AoE trash pulls, but when it comes to tanking bosses I do my job just fine.
Like Darpalta said, as soon as the other tank gets some Vengeance stacked up it's pretty much over. BoP'ing or Salving the other tank would be silly and petty.
At the end of the day, as long as the stuff is getting tanked then that's all that really matters.
On a side note, though, I've never tried using Holy Prism. Maybe I'll give that a shot tonight and see if it makes a difference.
If it's trash why does it matter what sticks to what tank, as long as it's a tank.
The only person I really have a hard time holding aoe aggro off of (besides the other tank) is the frost mage.
The only boss(es) with a lot of adds that are tanked that I can think of is Empress and Wind-Lord. (you could probably argue Lei Shi, but the point isn't to tank all of them there!)
On wind lord, since there are so many adds, and so much healing to do- I use 'Lights Hammer' which lines up very nicely with the whirling blades move that he does. I generally top DPS on that fight and am 2nd on healing. :D
I like that I can swap Lights Hammer with Holy Prism and generally feel like both are pretty interchangeable. The only fight where I was ever specifically asked to get that talent (lights hammer) was H.Feng, since dropping it on the raid when the adds spawned was good.
if you are hit and exp cap, start looking at getting your exp to 15% and adding hast when you can. reducing the amount of times a target can mitigate your attacks as well as reducing the cooldowns of crusader strike and hammer of the righteous will in turn help create and maintain aggro. this comes at the expense of adding some dps gear to your tank set, and reducing avoidance, but good team of healers plus self heals should make that a non factor
90 Draenei Paladin
Focus target other tank
Why would you sac the other tank? that that give vengeance? it doesn't do !@#$ for threat.. i think you mean salvation..
BoPing the other tank is fun, IF you have agro on stuff, if you don't then the DPS in the raid will be not to pleased with you
Edited by Judgebot on 12/10/12 2:11 PM (PST)
Why would you sac the other tank? that that give vengeance? it doesn't do !@#$ for threat.. i think you mean salvation..Yeah, meant salv. It now drops threat completely for 10 seconds.
Clicking off righteous fury on some trash and watching the co-tank get dropped can be amusing once in awhile. Becoming tougher now due to most trash is becoming more of a inconvenience than an actual threat.
Obviously everything is meant in good fun.