Speculation Fanlyr didn't cover anything.

For those who don't know Fanlyr Silverthorn is the Sunreaver who creates the portal to Darnassus that the Horde use to steal to the Divine Bell. Now after acquiring it Fanlyr said that he is going to cover their tracks and tells Horde players to take his portal back to Domination Point. However Jaina is able to discover the bell was stolen.

To be honest at first I thought it was because Jaina was more skilled or had more time that she was able to find the evidence that her wards were circumvented. However I discovered that rumors of Lor'themar's issues with Garrosh have spread to the point that the Hozen were hearing about the discord.

So I got to thinking what if Hellscream heard about the rumors and this scenario popped in my head.

Garrosh hears the rumors and decides to ensure that the blood elves remain in the Horde and strike against the Alliance at the same time. As such while obtaining the Divine Bell was the main mission I think Fanlyr was given a side mission in ensuring that Jaina discovered evidence linking the Sunreavers to the theft of the Bell, which leads to Jaina's Purge and Rommath's rescue.

While Garrosh now has to deal with Kirin Tor forces on the battlefield, he was also ensured that more blood elves will be dedicated to the war effort.

However everyone plan is not without a chance of side effects. Case in the point the Sunreavers blame Garrosh for their removal from Dalaran as much as they blame Jaina.
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
I would like this on the one hand.

But on the other I would be outraged about how the Horde can only be smart when it's being evil, yet we're not supposed to LIKE the evil *sigh*.
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12/07/2012 04:09 PMPosted by Skytotem
But on the other I would be outraged about how the Horde can only be smart when it's being evil, yet we're not supposed to LIKE the evil *sigh*.


Well Vol'jin's being smart by pretending to be dead. After all Garrosh doesn't think he has to worry about him so Vol'jin can plan his moves without any worry of Hellscream watching out for him.
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
12/07/2012 04:15 PMPosted by Gornur
Well Vol'jin's being smart by pretending to be dead. After all Garrosh doesn't think he has to worry about him so Vol'jin can plan his moves without any worry of Hellscream watching out for him.


Vol'jin also went into a cave with an assassin and got stabbed in the face.
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90 Troll Shaman
5420
12/07/2012 04:24 PMPosted by Skytotem
Vol'jin also went into a cave with an assassin and got stabbed in the face.

I like to think he's learned from that experience.

Don't go into dark alleys with strange men who're almost definitely going to try to kill you.

Also: Armour should consist of more than a loincloth, elbow and shoulder pads.
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90 Tauren Shaman
13440
12/07/2012 04:04 PMPosted by Gornur
For those who don't know Fanlyr Silverthorn is the Sunreaver who creates the portal to Darnassus that the Horde use to steal to the Divine Bell.


Isnt that the name of the guy who has been searching for the Divine Bell in the eariler quests? I though he was part of the Reliquary. Are the Reliquary connected to the Sunreavers or does he like have joint membership?

Wish I had a way to go back and check the earlier quests now.
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90 Human Warrior
16790
12/07/2012 04:09 PMPosted by Skytotem
But on the other I would be outraged about how the Horde can only be smart when it's being evil, yet we're not supposed to LIKE the evil *sigh*.


That's not really smart, pretty much the opposite.

Garrosh manages to decimate Theramore, and while he doesn't outright kill Jaina, he still manages to completely remove her from the war anyway because for whatever contrived reason, Theramore was worth jack all and she goes neutral afterwards.

Not happy with it, but there you go.

Given this, Garrosh should be thanking god that he doesn't have a pissed off supercharged mage flinging tsunamis at his armies instead of saying "eh, a little more antagonism against her wouldn't hurt."

I'm not so sure cementing the Blood Elves within the Horde is worth reintegrating the Kirin Tor and Dalaran into the Alliance, and bringing Jaina back, and carrying the risk that someone finds out about what you did and the Blood Elf situation blows up in your face anyway.

It's a stupid amount of risk for what he's getting out of it.
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90 Troll Shaman
5420
12/07/2012 05:21 PMPosted by Turagent
It's a stupid amount of risk for what he's getting out of it.

Thing is, a neutral Dalaran is indistinguishable from a Dalaran allied with the Alliance, as we've already seen, because the city has repeatedly show it has zero problem siding with the Alliance against the Horde without losing its neutral status.

Now it will continue to do so without the Sunreavers.
Edited by Kellick on 12/7/2012 5:25 PM PST
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That's not really smart, pretty much the opposite.

Garrosh manages to decimate Theramore, and while he doesn't outright kill Jaina, he still manages to completely remove her from the war anyway because for whatever contrived reason, Theramore was worth jack all and she goes neutral afterwards.

Not happy with it, but there you go.

Given this, Garrosh should be thanking god that he doesn't have a pissed off supercharged mage flinging tsunamis at his armies instead of saying "eh, a little more antagonism against her wouldn't hurt."

I'm not so sure cementing the Blood Elves within the Horde is worth reintegrating the Kirin Tor and Dalaran into the Alliance, and bringing Jaina back, and carrying the risk that someone finds out about what you did and the Blood Elf situation blows up in your face anyway.

It's a stupid amount of risk for what he's getting out of it.


I think Jaina's neutrally was more of something that came with the job as Archmage then anything else. It would take damming evidence for her to be able to attempt to expel the Sunrevers and accomplish anything more then an impeachment.

Even so, just because she was formally neutral doesn't mean she can't steer Dalaran to benefit the Alliance in a less overt manner, such as helping them secure Darnassus to protect the Divine Bell.

Still, I agree that it wouldn't be smart for Garrosh to antagonize the Kirin Tor further. As long as they are holding back the bulk of their power, they could be dealt with once the main Alliance army has been broken. In that case it might even be possible to bully them into appointing Aethas Sunrever as Archmage and turn them into a Horde puppet state without a major battle.

Instead however, the Kirin Tor has completely sided with the Alliance and it's powerful arsenal of magical knowledge will be put to use fighting the Horde. While the full loyalty of the Blood Elves does have it's benefits, the truth is Quel'thalas has historically been a fair weather ally, so even that has no long term guarantees. Especially since we know a certain Troll might be soon meeting with Lor'themar to present a third option he hadn't considered...
Edited by Falrinn on 12/7/2012 6:21 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Priest
13015
12/07/2012 04:04 PMPosted by Gornur
However I discovered that rumors of Lor'themar's issues with Garrosh have spread to the point that the Hozen were hearing about the discord.


TBH, Tak Tak (the hozen in question) is really strange... Do hozen use "yer" when they are talking? Maybe they do, I don't know... But he talks a little different from the other hozen... Ok, maybe I am seeing too much...
But he also *knows too much*... He goes on talking about stuff that a simply kite driver shouldnt know... :P
I will ply closer attention to his dialogues on the next quests I do that involve trips with him :P
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85 Tauren Shaman
6230
I'm not so sure cementing the Blood Elves within the Horde is worth reintegrating the Kirin Tor and Dalaran into the Alliance, and bringing Jaina back, and carrying the risk that someone finds out about what you did and the Blood Elf situation blows up in your face anyway.

It's a stupid amount of risk for what he's getting out of it.


Before Dalaran joins alliance: Bolsters Theramoore

After Dalaran Joins the Alliance: WHat exactly is going to change now?
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90 Tauren Shaman
13440
Out of interest has anyone seen a Sunreaver working for the Dominance offensive in game? The only time I know of of a Sunreaver being involved is when Lor'themar calls in Aethas to study the sha artifact.

All the rest are Reliquary. Fanlyr isnt a Sunreaver. Im wondering if perhaps the Reliquary is framing the Sunreavers.
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Isnt that the name of the guy who has been searching for the Divine Bell in the eariler quests? I though he was part of the Reliquary. Are the Reliquary connected to the Sunreavers or does he like have joint membership?


http://www.wowpedia.org/Fanlyr_Silverthorn

Fanlyr Silverthorn is a level 90 blood elf first encountered on Pandaria. Though he spends much of his time directing members of the Horde and the Reliquary (at Garrosh Hellscream's personal behest), his later actions suggest he is a member of the Sunreavers, who (like Thalen Songweaver before him) is following the Warchief's direct orders.


12/07/2012 05:21 PMPosted by Turagent
I'm not so sure cementing the Blood Elves within the Horde is worth reintegrating the Kirin Tor and Dalaran into the Alliance, and bringing Jaina back, and carrying the risk that someone finds out about what you did and the Blood Elf situation blows up in your face anyway.


While I understand were your coming from, I have to disagree based one thing. Garrosh is the poster child of arrogance. He properly doesn't think that the Kirin Tor or Jaina pose any threat against him. Besides the Blood Elves are masters of the arcane and Garrosh sees the value in that.

Though I can't help but think that Garrosh is ensuring that they are around in case he needs another mana bomb.

12/07/2012 06:59 PMPosted by Phelioz
However I discovered that rumors of Lor'themar's issues with Garrosh have spread to the point that the Hozen were hearing about the discord.


TBH, Tak Tak (the hozen in question) is really strange... Do hozen use "yer" when they are talking? Maybe they do, I don't know... But he talks a little different from the other hozen... Ok, maybe I am seeing too much...
But he also *knows too much*... He goes on talking about stuff that a simply kite driver shouldnt know... :P
I will ply closer attention to his dialogues on the next quests I do that involve trips with him :P


Now I'm thinking that there is something going with Tak Tak.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9145
It's a stupid amount of risk for what he's getting out of it.

Thing is, a neutral Dalaran is indistinguishable from a Dalaran allied with the Alliance, as we've already seen, because the city has repeatedly show it has zero problem siding with the Alliance against the Horde without losing its neutral status.

Now it will continue to do so without the Sunreavers.


Ehh..

If you stretch it.

As a neutral party, Dalaran's intervening in Theramore was to keep the balance and prevent the massive loss of lives, to stop the Night Elves from being driven to extinction (garrosh's stated goals) and, as an added bonus, to stop Garrosh from getting control of the Well of Eternity, which comes with taking over Kalimdor.

To say they sided with the Alliance is a vast oversimplification of the problem, despite the fact that they were specifically ordered not to attack the Horde, which they upheld.

The Kirin-Tor did not attribute resources to harming the Horde.

It was a fairly important point in the book, because it was a requirement for their aid.

So, you know, did they "aid" the Alliance? Yes. Did they break neutrality? No, because they didn't harm the Horde, even if it interfered with their plans.

And, before it get's said, I'm not whitewashing anything. That was the reasoning at the very least heavily hinted at in the book (not aimed at you Kel)
Edited by Ferlion on 12/8/2012 1:56 AM PST
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90 Undead Warlock
7410
12/08/2012 01:53 AMPosted by Ferlion
to stop the Night Elves from being driven to extinction (garrosh's stated goals)


Not to white wash a evil action, but before Theramore, Garrosh's goal was to forced the Night elves from Kalimdor, not genocide.

12/08/2012 01:53 AMPosted by Ferlion
So, you know, did they "aid" the Alliance? Yes. Did they break neutrality? No, because they didn't harm the Horde, even if it interfered with their plans.


Actually, by magically sealing the doors, it results in more Horde soldier's deaths trying to get in, so yes, they did harm the Horde.
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15 Human Priest
10570
12/08/2012 02:11 AMPosted by Ximothy
Actually, by magically sealing the doors, it results in more Horde soldier's deaths trying to get in, so yes, they did harm the Horde.


Horde soldiers who Garrosh had already planned on sacrificing in order to bring the Alliance's best forces to Theramore so he could destroy them with the mana bomb. If anything, Garrosh did more harm to the Horde forces than the Kirin Tor.
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90 Pandaren Monk
7065
Horde soldiers who Garrosh had already planned on sacrificing in order to bring the Alliance's best forces to Theramore so he could destroy them with the mana bomb. If anything, Garrosh did more harm to the Horde forces than the Kirin Tor


So Garrosh had a plan.. But the Kirin Tor provided the tools.. That's not helping the case.
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90 Human Warlock
13830
I wouldn't be surprised if the Reliquary framed the Sunreavers, especially if they're Garrosh's lapdogs. The ends justify the means for these people, and if the ends are more Blood Elves helping the Warchief, so be it.
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90 Pandaren Monk
11755
12/08/2012 07:37 AMPosted by Banquiero
Actually, by magically sealing the doors, it results in more Horde soldier's deaths trying to get in, so yes, they did harm the Horde.


Horde soldiers who Garrosh had already planned on sacrificing in order to bring the Alliance's best forces to Theramore so he could destroy them with the mana bomb. If anything, Garrosh did more harm to the Horde forces than the Kirin Tor.


Which has nothing to do with the Kirin Tor's neutrality.

The Kirin Tor picked a side. How they chose to aid that side is irrelevant, they chose for good or ill. Trying to say you're neutral after committing such an act is simply rationalization.

This isn't to say the Kirin Tor was wrong in what they did, but it certainly wasn't a neutral act.
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12/08/2012 07:55 AMPosted by Saitharis
I wouldn't be surprised if the Reliquary framed the Sunreavers, especially if they're Garrosh's lapdogs. The ends justify the means for these people, and if the ends are more Blood Elves helping the Warchief, so be it.


I would have to disagree. Not only has the leader of the Reliquary expressed the hope of the blood elves and high elves reuniting but a number of reliquary lost their lives because Garrosh didn't mention that the ruins they were going to were full of Mogu.

Now I'm curious where did you see a member of the Reliquary use "the ends justify the means" approach?
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