Feral Bleeds Kinda Blow?

90 Night Elf Druid
5410
Back in Cata, my entire rotation worked off of bleeds, but now I feel like bleeds don't really do much. Is it just me or are some other people finding the same? I mean in PVE, it's fine because mobs or bosses usually just take damage, but in PVP it's a pretty huge problem. A great example of this:

I was dueling this Warrior, full Dread with some Mal gear (weapon and such) and I got him down to 35%, but with Rake, Rip (with Tiger's Fury buff) and me spamming Mangle his health didn't even go down.

Even when I pop Berserk and Incarnation with all my bleeds ticking, it's barely enough to get Warriors through Second Wind. Am I missing some key component here?

Thinking about jumping on the crit bandwagon.
Edited by Sohra on 12/10/2012 12:14 PM PST
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90 Gnome Mage
16355
Savage Roar
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90 Night Elf Druid
5410
Have it up all the time. Even glyphed it so I could open with it and get the 30% boost to opener.
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90 Worgen Druid
3480
Not sure if it's enough with Warrior's insane healing with Second Wind, but try going stealth to force him to grab one of the 5% damage taken debuff/see stealth purple crystals. As soon as he grabs one, Feral Charge, and hit all your openers.

Also, I haven't tried this, and I'm not sure how practical it really is, but it may be worthwhile to attempt a combo with Heart of the Wild + Bear form after you get all your Cat form bleeds up. I mean to try this against a training dummy tonight before the arena reset tomorrow, to see if it is actually a burst increase.

EDIT: I'm assuming you're at the end of a match and it's 1 vs 1, you and the Warrior.
Edited by Amplexius on 12/10/2012 12:45 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
5410
Not sure if it's enough with Warrior's insane healing with Second Wind, but try going stealth to force him to grab one of the 5% damage taken debuff/see stealth purple crystals. As soon as he grabs one, Feral Charge, and hit all your openers.

Also, I haven't tried this, and I'm not sure how practical it really is, but it may be worthwhile to attempt a combo with Heart of the Wild + Bear form after you get all your Cat form bleeds up. I mean to try this against a training dummy tonight before the arena reset tomorrow, to see if it is actually a burst increase.

EDIT: I'm assuming you're at the end of a match and it's 1 vs 1, you and the Warrior.


Ah yeh, I see what you mean. Only problem with that is their bleeds tick for quite a while so I'd probably have to cyclone chain to Shadowmeld to properly stealth around without getting forced out. I haven't even thought of trying Heart of the Wild in Bear form (usually just get those crazy heals from Predatory Swiftness), definitely gonna try it tonight though.
Edited by Sohra on 12/10/2012 12:58 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
10500
Not sure if it's enough with Warrior's insane healing with Second Wind, but try going stealth to force him to grab one of the 5% damage taken debuff/see stealth purple crystals. As soon as he grabs one, Feral Charge, and hit all your openers.

Also, I haven't tried this, and I'm not sure how practical it really is, but it may be worthwhile to attempt a combo with Heart of the Wild + Bear form after you get all your Cat form bleeds up. I mean to try this against a training dummy tonight before the arena reset tomorrow, to see if it is actually a burst increase.

EDIT: I'm assuming you're at the end of a match and it's 1 vs 1, you and the Warrior.


It's really not that practical. Everyone complains about druid mobility sure, but how long does it take us to get AWAY from that shockwaving double charging heroic leaping safeguarding warrior so we can actually do it, just to have that 55k casted healing touch and the ~25-30k healing from rejuv be taken away in seconds?

Also, letting a warrior get shadow sight won't matter, it'll just hurt you in the long run unless you somehow magically get an opener on him from the side of a pillar before he charges/shockwaves/leaps.

OT:
Our bleeds tick for decent amounts if TF/Trink'd (~30k+ rip tick crits) however it's simply not enough to damage through second wind with the CC also available.

It's really not practical to kill a similarly geared/skilled warrior 1v1 as a feral without cooldowns, under 35% a warrior with that kind of gear will be regenning 6-7k HP a second. If you don't think you can outlast him until then however (his cooldowns will likely come back as well) push him down to (and try to keep him around) ~35% or 40% with use of Tiger's Fury and bleed kiting, making sure to keep yourself healed and then wait for your stun DR to come up.

Once it does make sure you have bleeds up and then bash and tear into him with whatever you have. If it's not enough; cyclone him to stop the heals and the CC a bit while your energy regens and then reopen on him with the rest of what you've got. If he's got wall/cry/parry crap he just made your life even more miserable, and will most likely force you to have to wait on DRs again.

Warriors, while not on the level of frost mages last season, are one of the most annoying classes for us to try to kill 1v1 right now, so don't expect to always win against good ones. The amount of CC they can stop your burst with (especially 20s shockwaves...) is insane, so don't get too discouraged.

TL;DR: Outlast til about 40% and then go to ham town on them, using clone to stop second wind heals if needed, not a fun or easy fight but possible.
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90 Night Elf Druid
5410
Not trying to sound like a baby or anything, but isn't it kind of stupid that it takes "going ham" just to kill a Warrior at 40%?
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90 Night Elf Druid
10500
12/10/2012 01:11 PMPosted by Sohra
Not trying to sound like a baby or anything, but isn't it kind of stupid that it takes "going ham" just to kill a Warrior at 40%?


Didn't say it wasn't; it's dumb as hell. Trying to even KILL them through that healing by yourself while dealing with 90s CD fear, 20s CD shockwave, charge stuns and them blowing their swifty macro is even more annoying than trying to stick to a spriest pre-psyfiend nerf.
Edited by Kalse on 12/10/2012 5:13 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
6770
I have the same problem against warriors.
Use your on use trinket as well when you get them low.
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90 Troll Druid
RoC
4865
PVE Feral: Mastery over Crit
PVP Feral: Crit over Mastery
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90 Tauren Druid
12165
Not real sure you should listen to spetnas about crit over mastery..

Dots are still very important and mastery play has its place..

as dbl dps in 2s.. Crit might could maybe in certain comps come out better. OR even some random 3s comp.

BUT almost always mastery play for feral is still the way to go. Dots are massive part of what we do.
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90 Tauren Druid
6840
PVE Feral: Mastery over Crit
PVP Feral: Crit over Mastery


Yeah, this is just flat out wrong. It's not as black and white as that. They're somewhat close, arguably. It's more comp dependent as Drcow says. Running Kittycleave? Then crit will likely be better, for e.g.

With the healing nerf the general consensus is that the dot aspect of our class will get slightly better. Though while I personally favour mastery, you do need a balance of both. Right now i'm striving for 30% crit and 50% mastery and work my way from there.
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