Tank dps...

90 Undead Hunter
10595
on multimob fights sometimes pisses me off. I don't mind really that a monk or druid or DK can do great mult mob dps on fights - its just that me as a dps class cannot compete. Was in LFR the other day on wind lord meljarak and the druid tank did 240k dps. Great! Except why the heck can't my hunter sustain that??? Why the heck did my mage aoe dmg get shafted in MOP and beyond cleave fights I might as well be throwing ramen at the mobs? If blizz is going to design a non dps class to do best AOE dmg... what is the point of being a dps??
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90 Human Warrior
10675
What's the point of dps? Well, in almost every other boss encounter in the game, it's 1 boss. When there's only 1 boss, does the tank do your dps? No. Does he do HALF your dps? No. But you're right, *ONE* encounter completely invalidates your dps in all fights.

Therefore, you should reroll a tank.... of course I'm saying this because I don't like tanking, but that makes no nevermind, roll a tank, and git yo aoe deeps on!

OR you can simply smile, get yo lewtz, and move on to the next boss. /shrug
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90 Human Warrior
13280
Only one tank can do that kind of damage, because the one tank is taking the damage from all of those mobs stacking vengeance. If you had a bunch of DPS roll tanks and try the fight, their AoE would suck and overall dps would be much lower.

Just because a tank getting focused on by 10 mobs can do massive damage in a single fight does not mean that DPS classes are irrelevant.
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4 Blood Elf Warlock
0
I don't think you're doing anything wrong. Other classes have has really weak AoE. It's disheartening and I just do what I can. Go /AFK or Tab-out works just as well in AoE Trash pulls where there's 3 or more mobs since our contribution is very minimal.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
10035
It's a bit annoying to be out-dps'd by a tank, but whatever. So long as the boss dies, who cares in the end?
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90 Draenei Paladin
13225
tanks seem to be topping a fair amount of fights this tier

IT AIN'T NATURAL!
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90 Undead Hunter
10595
Yea... did it again tonight and got in with a few ppl with 500+ gear. Another druid tank with crazy gear and he did over 400k. Its just not that fight - I don't care if blizz intends tanks to kick out crazy numbers. Let the DPS kick out some crazy dps as well. We had some really good guys in there - 160k sustained over the whole battle, and they did a fraction of what that one tank did for overall dps/dmg once the boss was down. I just can't see how blizz nerfs the crap outa dps class AOE damage for balance reasons and gives tanks mechanics that allow them to do that.
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90 Orc Warrior
0
"Stop killing stuff so fast I want this instance/raid to take longer."

This is what you are saying. Reevaluate yourself.
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90 Human Paladin
8830
12/11/2012 11:22 AMPosted by Straker
on multimob fights sometimes pisses me off. I don't mind really that a monk or druid or DK can do great mult mob dps on fights - its just that me as a dps class cannot compete. Was in LFR the other day on wind lord meljarak and the druid tank did 240k dps. Great! Except why the heck can't my hunter sustain that??? Why the heck did my mage aoe dmg get shafted in MOP and beyond cleave fights I might as well be throwing ramen at the mobs? If blizz is going to design a non dps class to do best AOE dmg... what is the point of being a dps??


The problem is Vengance on prot classes, IMO blizzard should do away with vengance and re-balance.
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90 Orc Death Knight
9155
I don't really see vengeance as a problem. It gets a little out of control on Windlord, but let the tanks have their fun. Similarly Tsulong is a place for healers to strut their stuff, and push themselves without any real limitations.

Outside of that fight, no one should be getting topped by a tank. Similarly ICC had Dreamwalker and festergut for tanks and healers to break out of their typical role.
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69 Worgen Warrior
0
tanks seem to be topping a fair amount of fights this tier

IT AIN'T NATURAL!


Yeah tank dps should be nerfed TO THE GROUND...so should threat so that when you pump out your great dps in comparison to the tank's dps, the mob turns around and squashes you...lol. Great tank dps means he will hold agro off of you no matter what you do and no matter when you do it....it allows you to concentrate on pumping out the highest dps that you can without EVER worrying about pulling agro off the tank...there is a symbiosis there...shame for the trees, they prevent you from seeing the forest.
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69 Worgen Warrior
0
12/11/2012 04:02 PMPosted by Straker
Yea... did it again tonight and got in with a few ppl with 500+ gear. Another druid tank with crazy gear and he did over 400k. Its just not that fight - I don't care if blizz intends tanks to kick out crazy numbers. Let the DPS kick out some crazy dps as well. We had some really good guys in there - 160k sustained over the whole battle, and they did a fraction of what that one tank did for overall dps/dmg once the boss was down. I just can't see how blizz nerfs the crap outa dps class AOE damage for balance reasons and gives tanks mechanics that allow them to do that.


I really do not allow selfish, narrrowminded people in my guild. All I see here is someone who is too focused on just himself and not on the prosperity of the raid group. Did it ever dawn on you that the druid tank's dps was ALLOWING the dps in your raid to pull numbers in excess of 160k without fear of pulling agro? Pump the dps up to 400k for those rare fights where the tank does great dps and what happens on the remainder of the fights where the tank's dps is not 400k, but your dps remains at 400k ? Right...dead huntard. But hey, why worry about that...you want those pretty numbers...success of the raid be damned...you NEED those glittery dps numbers, dont you?
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90 Human Paladin
12900
In ICC, on festergut, it was quite normal for tanks to be at or near the top of damage done due to the stacking damage debuff (it was a debuff, but increased the damage the tank did..at 10 stacks it would insta-kill the tank). Nobody ever complained about the extra dps the tanks were doing. That's essentially what happens now, but on every boss. Just ignore the tank's damage and go on about your business.

The only time it ever makes sense to even care what the tank's dps is, is when comparing to another tank. If one tank is able to do 200k dps, and another in the same circumstance on the same fight, playing just as optimally can only do 100k, then that's a significant difference.

Otherwise, there's just no need to compare the dps between tanks and the damage dealers. The tank damage is just part of the encounter.
Edited by Bravehearth on 12/14/2012 1:49 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Hunter
10680
Yea... did it again tonight and got in with a few ppl with 500+ gear. Another druid tank with crazy gear and he did over 400k. Its just not that fight - I don't care if blizz intends tanks to kick out crazy numbers. Let the DPS kick out some crazy dps as well. We had some really good guys in there - 160k sustained over the whole battle, and they did a fraction of what that one tank did for overall dps/dmg once the boss was down. I just can't see how blizz nerfs the crap outa dps class AOE damage for balance reasons and gives tanks mechanics that allow them to do that.


I really do not allow selfish, narrrowminded people in my guild. All I see here is someone who is too focused on just himself and not on the prosperity of the raid group. Did it ever dawn on you that the druid tank's dps was ALLOWING the dps in your raid to pull numbers in excess of 160k without fear of pulling agro? Pump the dps up to 400k for those rare fights where the tank does great dps and what happens on the remainder of the fights where the tank's dps is not 400k, but your dps remains at 400k ? Right...dead huntard. But hey, why worry about that...you want those pretty numbers...success of the raid be damned...you NEED those glittery dps numbers, dont you?


The tank stance threat multiplier actually means the tank only has to pull about 80K to your 400K, as they get five times base threat. And no tank hitting buttons does less than a fifth of a dps, therefore your argument that "The tank needs dps so you can do your max dps" is totally bunk. Tank threat hasn't been a thing since they buffed it in cata and released a dev blog literally saying tank threat is no longer a thing, they have enough to do.

Also nobody cares about your self righteous make believe guild you flea ridden level 20 <_<.
Edited by Lince on 12/14/2012 4:26 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Hunter
10680
12/11/2012 12:15 PMPosted by Krowten
I don't think you're doing anything wrong. Other classes have has really weak AoE. It's disheartening and I just do what I can. Go /AFK or Tab-out works just as well in AoE Trash pulls where there's 3 or more mobs since our contribution is very minimal.


And your being overly dramatic. Some dps specs have lower AoE than a tank, but the gap from best to worst is still small enough that your contribution matters greatly, not using your AoE on a mass pull because the vengeance decked tank is doing a little more is unreasonable.
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90 Troll Mage
15205
As long as people are not able to start stacking tanks and do more damage on a fight then tank damage is fine.

Since you can't have more than 1 or 2 tanks without damage being awful the damage/dps the 1 or 2 tanks do is perfectly fine.

Just like when the heroics first came out and everyone was crying for tank damage to be nerfed, its a silly complaint as it benefits no one to lower the tanks damage.
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90 Pandaren Monk
4680
If they nerf tanks vengenace enrage timers would become more of a problem. And who cares about aoe damage ? Also sustaining 160k on that fight isnt hard as a dps... Last night frost dks warriors on heroic windlord were doing something way over 200k dont remember numbers but still. Your mad about a tank doing 200-400k dps. Look at logs monk tank doing 1.2 million dps on windlors. Lawl have fun being mad over a dump fight that isnt even fun tobegin with.

People always want to just aoe for lol numbrs. Now you got a fight and cry about it.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
It trash, cry some more... Why is it called trash? Because it doesnt matter. The only DPS you should be worried about is boss DPS. Just because you have a meter doesnt mean that everything on the meter is important.

That being said, tank DPS was improved in MoP partly because it is vital on progression fights for the tank to do as much damage as possible to make up for gear level of the raid. This is not a bad thing, if you are getting out DPSed by a tank on a boss fight then its either the gear or it is you.
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90 Orc Death Knight
9155
As long as people are not able to start stacking tanks and do more damage on a fight then tank damage is fine.

Since you can't have more than 1 or 2 tanks without damage being awful the damage/dps the 1 or 2 tanks do is perfectly fine.

Just like when the heroics first came out and everyone was crying for tank damage to be nerfed, its a silly complaint as it benefits no one to lower the tanks damage.


That's pretty much everything that needs to be said on the subject. We've all run Sha of Anger right? We've all had that group that had 7 tanks in it? Two of the tanks, tops, are actually contributing anything worthwhile. One's picking up adds, the other is tanking the boss.

None of the other tanks can contribute anything, because they won't receive enough vengeance to do anything.

You can't stack tanks - you don't need to worry about out of control tank DPS. Some fights (Windlord, Festergut - as previously mentioned) are tuned to the expectation that the tank is going to get some pretty awesome damage. These are a gift from Blizzard to make up for single target, low movement, fights where a tank isn't doing anything but falling asleep and / or taunting every 10-15 seconds to swap stacks.

Consequently on those single target, low movement fights - melee tend to shine, healers tend to be either be falling asleep as well, or freaking out about cooldown rotation if the damage is tuned high. Multidotters suffer.

There's fights for everyone, especially this tier, just because you're being outshined on one doesn't mean the fight is wrong, or that spec is wrong, it means that it's someone elses turn on the super-awesome fun coaster and you're waiting in line. It'll be your turn again in 7 minutes, don't fret.
Edited by Solution on 12/16/2012 10:26 AM PST
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90 Goblin Warlock
16125
I don't really see vengeance as a problem. It gets a little out of control on Windlord, but let the tanks have their fun. Similarly Tsulong is a place for healers to strut their stuff, and push themselves without any real limitations.

Outside of that fight, no one should be getting topped by a tank. Similarly ICC had Dreamwalker and festergut for tanks and healers to break out of their typical role.


Doing more damage is fun apparently. Big numbers man!

On the same note this thread is "They terk er jerbs!", but I somewhat concur. Vengeance was the lazy way of improving threat gen.
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