Blizzard says they want normals hard.

I just dont see any possible way LFR can last 6-7 months without a big push and subsidy(nerfs/buffs/incentives) to move into normals.

I just dont see any possible way LFR can last 6-7 months without a big push and subsidy(nerfs/buffs/incentives) to move into normals.

Almost everyone I know manages to get at least 3 of the 5 LFR's and Sha in every single week.


That's because you can't conceive that people aren't you.

LFR is designed for people who can't commit to organised raiding. This includes people who don't actually do LFR every week. Unless you have better numbers than you think Blizzard does on just how big a proportion of players ARE literally just spitting out gear from LFR for the sake of getting geared out and will quit the moment they have "bis", which would require you to actually show some form of proof instead of pull wild statements out of a hat, you're simply in a position where you assume people who play the game are as bad and have attitudes as bad as you.

In ICC - Normal mode WAS LFR difficulty. Marrowgar was a literal one-shot, and Funship was a fight that was also a literal oneshot on Heroic. Saurfang was a backloaded fight that never got to the back on Normal.


You are the one who cant see any side but the heroic raider Pov.

LFR was done much better this expansion as such, LFR is not falling off the cliff it did in DS where LFR quality dropped horribly after the first two months.

Probably because there are 5 LFR's, a legendary quest and tokens to be gained as well.

So it gained a bit of longevity, but I am starting to see that burnout kick in slowly.... talking to friends, people in game, im seeing them get tired of running the same LFR's every week, they are also getting fully geared 480+

But one thing to consider, when I put the direct question to the blues did GC mean 4 months from launch or 4 months from 5.1, it was skillfully dodged and avoided.

Which leads me to believe they are aware of the problem and were aiming for 4 months from lauch, but are going to hit 4 months from 5.1 but dont want to tell LFR players they have 4 more months of the same LFR

But I could be wrong, we will know more soon.

but I do see this is the first time they have had a tier designed to use LFR, and they are probably playing conservative with how to handle LFR players burnout and pushes into normal and nerfs.
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90 Troll Shaman
12580
I'm not sure what's going on in here, but hi.
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12/11/2012 01:00 PMPosted by Liax
I'm not sure what's going on in here, but hi.


Convert to raid interview on MMochamp

read it, its very interesting.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
You are the one who cant see any side but the heroic raider Pov.
...
So it gained a bit of longevity, but I am starting to see that burnout kick in slowly.... talking to friends, people in game, im seeing them get tired of running the same LFR's every week, they are also getting fully geared 480+


-->

LFR is designed for people who can't commit to organised raiding. This includes people who don't actually do LFR every week. Unless you have better numbers than you think Blizzard does on just how big a proportion of players ARE literally just spitting out gear from LFR for the sake of getting geared out and will quit the moment they have "bis", which would require you to actually show some form of proof instead of pull wild statements out of a hat, you're simply in a position where you assume people who play the game are as bad and have attitudes as bad as you.


But one thing to consider, when I put the direct question to the blues did GC mean 4 months from launch or 4 months from 5.1, it was skillfully dodged and avoided.


Blizzard never answers questions like this unless they have a concrete thing to report on (e.g. "5.1 will be out soon - it's going on the PTR next week!"

but I do see this is the first time they have had a tier designed to use LFR, and they are probably playing conservative with how to handle LFR players burnout and pushes into normal and nerfs.


Dude, how dense are you?

There is no design intent for LFR --> Normal because the audience for LFR by definition cannot meet the requirements to do Normal; effort put into trying to turn Normal Mode into the NEW LFR WITH 13 MORE ILVLS is a bit contradictory to the entire point of LFR.

What you're talking about is people who can do Normal mode raiding, but sit around farming LFR - these are people who have the capability to be able to commit to Normal mode but can't. It's as silly as a person who farms Dailies on a regular 3 hours a day schedule turning around at this point and saying that he's finished with Dailies so he/she is quitting the game until more dailies are reintroduced.
Edited by Slashlove on 12/11/2012 1:09 PM PST
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100 Human Rogue
11320
12/11/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Sarosha
So it gained a bit of longevity, but I am starting to see that burnout kick in slowly.... talking to friends, people in game, im seeing them get tired of running the same LFR's every week, they are also getting fully geared 480+


They are doing only LFR by choice though. This is not in blizzards control.

12/11/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Sarosha
but I do see this is the first time they have had a tier designed to use LFR, and they are probably playing conservative with how to handle LFR players burnout and pushes into normal and nerfs.


It's all a balancing act. If its nerfed and becomes easy you lose players on the opposite end of the spectrum who face the same style of burn out when they clear all the content. The main difference is that an LFR player can choose to try normal while someone who finishes the tier on heroic is straight up done and can make absolutely no choice to change that.
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We will know more soon.

Everything is dependent on the release of 5.2
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12/11/2012 01:05 PMPosted by Ninjablaze
So it gained a bit of longevity, but I am starting to see that burnout kick in slowly.... talking to friends, people in game, im seeing them get tired of running the same LFR's every week, they are also getting fully geared 480+


They are doing only LFR by choice though. This is not in blizzards control.

but I do see this is the first time they have had a tier designed to use LFR, and they are probably playing conservative with how to handle LFR players burnout and pushes into normal and nerfs.


It's all a balancing act. If its nerfed and becomes easy you lose players on the opposite end of the spectrum who face the same style of burn out when they clear all the content. The main difference is that an LFR player can choose to try normal while someone who finishes the tier on heroic is straight up done and can make absolutely no choice to change that.


The interview even says only 28 guilds have completed heroic sha of fear.
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100 Human Rogue
11320
12/11/2012 01:10 PMPosted by Sarosha
The interview even says only 28 guilds have completed heroic sha of fear.


...its the last boss and its been out for 3 weeks. The tier has to last another 4-6 months. This IMO is good tuning. I was talking more about the danger to nerfs in relation to DS where so many people finished with months and months to go. 8/8H was a 3 hour pug by tiers end. You are not going to keep a whole lot of real raider subs when this is the case.
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90 Troll Shaman
12580
12/11/2012 01:10 PMPosted by Sarosha
The interview even says only 28 guilds have completed heroic sha of fear.


Nerfs will come. But probably not until the next tier comes out. There's cutting edge achievements for Empress, and Will so it's pretty obvious that they intend to nerf them, but there's no real reason why everyone has to see all/most of the heroic tier content.

If anything, Sha might get some Rag treatment before the next tier, but that's about it. It's absurd to think that Blizzard should be nerfing heroic content as a whole so everyone gets to see it while it's relevant.
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You are the one who cant see any side but the heroic raider Pov.
...
So it gained a bit of longevity, but I am starting to see that burnout kick in slowly.... talking to friends, people in game, im seeing them get tired of running the same LFR's every week, they are also getting fully geared 480+


-->

LFR is designed for people who can't commit to organised raiding. This includes people who don't actually do LFR every week. Unless you have better numbers than you think Blizzard does on just how big a proportion of players ARE literally just spitting out gear from LFR for the sake of getting geared out and will quit the moment they have "bis", which would require you to actually show some form of proof instead of pull wild statements out of a hat, you're simply in a position where you assume people who play the game are as bad and have attitudes as bad as you.


But one thing to consider, when I put the direct question to the blues did GC mean 4 months from launch or 4 months from 5.1, it was skillfully dodged and avoided.


Blizzard never answers questions like this unless they have a concrete thing to report on (e.g. "5.1 will be out soon - it's going on the PTR next week!"

but I do see this is the first time they have had a tier designed to use LFR, and they are probably playing conservative with how to handle LFR players burnout and pushes into normal and nerfs.


Dude, how dense are you?

There is no design intent for LFR --> Normal because the audience for LFR by definition cannot meet the requirements to do Normal; effort put into trying to turn Normal Mode into the NEW LFR WITH 13 MORE ILVLS is a bit contradictory to the entire point of LFR.

What you're talking about is people who can do Normal mode raiding, but sit around farming LFR - these are people who have the capability to be able to commit to Normal mode but can't. It's as silly as a person who farms Dailies on a regular 3 hours a day schedule turning around at this point and saying that he's finished with Dailies so he/she is quitting the game until more dailies are reintroduced.


More dailes were just introduced.....

Your missing 2 things.

One is the LFR only player, you can finish all lfr's in 3 hours or so a week, 5 or 6 with poor queue times. The only thing that is going to help this person is more LFR's

The other is the strugling normal mode raider, if a player is stuck early on Elegon or Garalon, the two most common sticking points, its begining to look like by the time this player has enough gear to beat Elegon, there will be no gear to get from Elegon, this is really silly and stupid, these are the players that can be helped by progressive or targeted nerfs.

Go look around on some of the server forums or recruitment forums, or listen in your trade chat, alot and I mean ALOT of guilds are still gearing up in lfr trying to break into normals.

it would be very daft of blizzard not to cater to these people at all.
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12/11/2012 01:14 PMPosted by Ninjablaze
The interview even says only 28 guilds have completed heroic sha of fear.


...its the last boss and its been out for 3 weeks. The tier has to last another 4-6 months. This IMO is good tuning. I was talking more about the danger to nerfs in relation to DS where so many people finished with months and months to go. 8/8H was a 3 hour pug by tiers end. You are not going to keep a whole lot of real raider subs when this is the case.


I actually have no issue with this.

my only point with this, is very very very few people are done with content, so nerfs arent going to hit all that hard.

Yeah tier 11 chased away a ton of people that werent that good,, then DS turned around and chased away a ton of people that were too good.
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Anyone who has a gearing issue beating normal elegon is straight stupid. The content was killable in full heroic dungeon gear without some sort of strict raid comp.

The answer is not Blizzard saying "Oh, you can't kill the content after you've outgeared it? Here, Blizzard can nerf it for you...there there...it's alright. You don't have to learn your class or figure out how to deal with mechanics to get the lootz..."


Ghatok Id like you to read this point..

I might have said some dumb or inconsiderate things, but this takes the cake, he is basically saying that you, me and every other raider that is stuck on elegon is stupid....

Wow...
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
More dailes were just introduced.....


What, and you expect them to take 3 months until the next patch to do? People hit Exalted 2 days in.

One is the LFR only player, you can finish all lfr's in 3 hours or so a week, 5 or 6 with poor queue times. The only thing that is going to help this person is more LFR's


People "burning out" from consistently farming LFR are not the audience for LFR. Can you read?

The other is the strugling normal mode raider, if a player is stuck early on Elegon or Garalon, the two most common sticking points, its begining to look like by the time this player has enough gear to beat Elegon, there will be no gear to get from Elegon


Yeah, who doesn't want the best trinkets and weapons available from the tier /sarcasm.

Ghatok Id like you to read this point..

I might have said some dumb or inconsiderate things, but this takes the cake, he is basically saying that you, me and every other raider that is stuck on elegon is stupid....

Wow...


$10 says you're the baddie offended by that and Ghatok is not because he's not a baddie.

Especially given:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7320002602?page=9#170
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7349464978
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7320002602?page=4#63

my only point with this, is very very very few people are done with content, so nerfs arent going to hit all that hard.


You are aware that a major crowd of Normal Mode raiders has zero interest in even trying Heroic modes, right?
Edited by Slashlove on 12/11/2012 1:46 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
I might have said some dumb or inconsiderate things, but this takes the cake, he is basically saying that you, me and every other raider that is stuck on elegon is stupid....Wow...


He has anger management issues, pay him no mind, he does it everywhere.

But to the point it is good that they are not nerfing the content until at least 5.2. Think they did a good job with normal tuning. To be honest it might even be a little harder than t11 as there wasn't too much difficult stuff in normals until Nef or Council.
Edited by Sadiemay on 12/11/2012 1:48 PM PST
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Except we are both stuck in exactly the same spot, with very similiar gearing.

And as someone has point out, Elegon is NOT the best weapon.

The Sha touched LFR weapon is better than the normal mode MSV weapons.

And its just a matter of time and probably not that much of it for everyone to have LFR sha touched, or at least everyone who drops a charm on it every week.
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90 Human Death Knight
7700
Slashlove hit the nail on the head.
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88 Draenei Shaman
aus
17280
12/11/2012 11:29 AMPosted by Ninjablaze
Nowhere in that post did they say they weren't easy (they are). All it said is you can't kill them with 0 communication. Aka they are easy, just not faceroll.


Bleh why am I stuck on my jc alt. Just because you can do them easily does not make them easy. It just makes them capable of been done by the average raiding guild.

Just to repeat myself I do not think, normal is too hard

12/11/2012 12:25 PMPosted by Sarosha
you pretty much have to go all the way back to uldaur to find a harder tier.
Uldaar normal (not hard modes) was easier then this tier unless you count the pre-nerf bosses. The nerf was 2-3 weeks in?. No the only comparable normal tier is icc 0% or sunwell and older.

12/11/2012 12:31 PMPosted by Slashlove
You're completely ignoring that Normal and Heroic Raiders also want 12 boss raids coming out faster (e.g. every 4-5 months), and the demand for a new raid depends more on that.


Its going to be a new raid tier every 6 months at best, your dreaming if you think otherwise:)

But i am OK with 6 months its the 9 months or 11 months that are a joke.

12/11/2012 12:45 PMPosted by Slashlove
In ICC - Normal mode WAS LFR difficulty. Marrowgar was a literal one-shot, and Funship was a fight that was also a literal oneshot on Heroic. Saurfang was a backloaded fight that never got to the back on Normal.


At 0%? Take your rose coloured glasses off. The first pug to kill 25 man saurfang took about 4 weeks, voice communication was standard, even at 20+ it took a pretty good pug to kill LK normal 25 man.
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*slow golf clap* I admit defeat you have managed to chase every voice of the struggling raider off the forum.

Darker is gone, I think he left the game.
Osmeric has given up, he has written off raiding
you've made Ghatok into one of you, I expect him to show up in a few weeks with heroic mode raid kills.

Congratulations, you have succesfully purged the board of every voice of less skilled raider in the game.

And now Ill be calling it quits, I hope you all enjoy patting yourselves on your backs for your leetness.
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