Blizzard says they want normals hard.

88 Draenei Shaman
aus
17280
12/11/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Sarosha
But one thing to consider, when I put the direct question to the blues did GC mean 4 months from launch or 4 months from 5.1, it was skillfully dodged and avoided.


4 months from 5.1.

If they had said a content patch every 2 months your would expect 5.0 2 months,5.1 2 months,5.2 2 months. They did not say that they said 4 months. Considering how much simpler saying every 2 months is , its almost certain it will be 2,4,2,4,2,4 and lol end of expansion here sign up for the annual pass.
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90 Orc Shaman
13750
12/11/2012 12:31 PMPosted by Slashlove
You're completely ignoring that Normal and Heroic Raiders also want 12 boss raids coming out faster (e.g. every 4-5 months), and the demand for a new raid depends more on that.


I don't.

I think a 12 boss tier can last for 6-8 months, assuming the tier is well-designed (t14 is, t11 was).

We had Ulduar for about 6, I think, but the life of Ulduar could easily have gone on a few months more. This tier is easily good enough to last 6 or 7.
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12/11/2012 02:11 PMPosted by Hyjinx
You're completely ignoring that Normal and Heroic Raiders also want 12 boss raids coming out faster (e.g. every 4-5 months), and the demand for a new raid depends more on that.


I don't.

I think a 12 boss tier can last for 6-8 months, assuming the tier is well-designed (t14 is, t11 was).

We had Ulduar for about 6, I think, but the life of Ulduar could easily have gone on a few months more. This tier is easily good enough to last 6 or 7.


Thats the wrong question.

Its not is the tier good enough to last 6-8 months.

Its is the LFR good enough to last 6-8 months?
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90 Human Priest
14595
12/11/2012 02:11 PMPosted by Hyjinx
You're completely ignoring that Normal and Heroic Raiders also want 12 boss raids coming out faster (e.g. every 4-5 months), and the demand for a new raid depends more on that.


I don't.

I think a 12 boss tier can last for 6-8 months, assuming the tier is well-designed (t14 is, t11 was).

We had Ulduar for about 6, I think, but the life of Ulduar could easily have gone on a few months more. This tier is easily good enough to last 6 or 7.


Ulduar was current for like 4... Although ToC was definitely rushed and came out far too fast.

IIRC only 10-11 guilds killed Yogg0 pre major nerf.
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100 Human Rogue
11210
12/11/2012 02:09 PMPosted by Sarosha
Darker is gone, I think he left the game.


C'mon, even you can't say you miss that moron.

12/11/2012 02:09 PMPosted by Sarosha
you've made Ghatok into one of you, I expect him to show up in a few weeks with heroic mode raid kills.


It's never too late. Though admittedly I don't think being "one of us" entails quite what you seem to assume it does.
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90 Pandaren Monk
17210
12/11/2012 02:13 PMPosted by Sarosha
Its is the LFR good enough to last 6-8 months?


It doesn't really have to be though, since there's normal and heroic modes after that. I don't think LFR is meant to sustain regular week to week PvE-only players for an extended period of time. It's meant to be an introduction to raiding for people who would otherwise not raid, or a stepping stone into raiding for people who want/need it.

Personally I think 4-6 months is good.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
Ulduar was current for like 4... Although ToC was definitely rushed and came out far too fast.

IIRC only 10-11 guilds killed Yogg0 pre major nerf.


Yep.

I don't.

I think a 12 boss tier can last for 6-8 months, assuming the tier is well-designed (t14 is, t11 was).


Oh, I'm certainly not speaking for "all raiders". It's just a different implication in that speeding up content release compared to what they've done before isn't something that they need to do "to please the LFR crowd" so much as .... keep content fresh for everyone.

We all know that they can't actually put out faster raid content, but at least a 12-boss type tier can actually last between the time it takes.

At 0%? Take your rose coloured glasses off. The first pug to kill 25 man saurfang took about 4 weeks, voice communication was standard, even at 20+ it took a pretty good pug to kill LK normal 25 man.


THere were Saurfang pugs happening in week 1. There was even OUTRAGE that Festergut on Normal took a massive 7.5k raid dps which was going to be totally impossible for pugs when Plague wing was released 4 weeks after.

The level of communication for pugs was "kill Spikes, run away during BROSTORM", "Use Jetpacks to kill Mage", "DPS adds" - the occasional "stack on Star". Saurfang on Normal with an organised group guaranteed the achievement; a pug was actually iffy on whether he'd get 4 Marks out. It took him getting to 8-9 Marks for the fight to snowball out of control.

And that's talking 25-man pugs. 10-man pugs fared even better off.
Edited by Slashlove on 12/11/2012 2:32 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
Block wasn't the only gimmick; Penetrating Cold was also stupidly gimmicky. It was probably the one mechanic that really demanded addons in a 25-man raid setting in the entire expansion.

you've made Ghatok into one of you, I expect him to show up in a few weeks with heroic mode raid kills.

Congratulations, you have succesfully purged the board of every voice of less skilled raider in the game.


See, Ghatok was never a baddie, so the only person offending him is you, by lumping him in with other people who are.

Casual does not mean less skilled.
Edited by Slashlove on 12/11/2012 2:36 PM PST
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*slow golf clap* I admit defeat you have managed to chase every voice of the struggling raider off the forum.

Darker is gone, I think he left the game.
Osmeric has given up, he has written off raiding
you've made Ghatok into one of you, I expect him to show up in a few weeks with heroic mode raid kills.

Congratulations, you have succesfully purged the board of every voice of less skilled raider in the game.

And now Ill be calling it quits, I hope you all enjoy patting yourselves on your backs for your leetness.

Will you finally quit for good this time?

Darker quit because he was more or less like you, except he just flat out didn't care.

The lesser skilled raider has their place on these forums. There's a lot of threads asking for help on bosses they're stuck on. They provide the problem, the logs to supply it, and THEY ASK FOR HELP.

The problem we have with you, Sarosha, is that you DO NOT ASK FOR HELP. You take into the extreme and STRAIGHT OUT ASK FOR NERFS. You been doing it all the way to Cata, my god. How in the heavens can't you see how silly and, why not, stupid when you do that?

I troll you because you don't want help, you just want momma Blizzard to spoonfeed you with progression and kills. Guess what, they catered to your needs in DS, and they lost 2 million people during that period because of that.

The math is on our side now. I know you're not familiar with numbers that do not work in your favor, but yeah.

Please, quit if you're not willing to better yourself. That is the PRIME aspect of a MMORPG.


you keep misattributing that number

the 2 million loss came from tier 11 and cata heroics.

the 1 million came from DS

They actually managed to chase away players on both sides.

Will I be gone for good, I dont know if the game swings back in my direction ill probably be back.

I do figure blizzard has to see how this plays out which is why Im willing to just walk away and let it.
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90 Orc Death Knight
7780
Edit, nvm. Others already stated it far better than I can.

Edit 2: Eh, here it is again. Why not.

12/11/2012 02:09 PMPosted by Sarosha
you've made Ghatok into one of you, I expect him to show up in a few weeks with heroic mode raid kills.


Nah, I'm still casual. What makes me, specifically, casual is my inability to commit to raid times. And get on/listen to vent a good portion of the time.

Here's why I've changed my tune Sarosha - LFR.

I have a good amount of family (my dad, father in law) that are just bad players that I like to play with. I have bad friends who I like to play with. And guess what? LFR allows for that. But we don't just do lfr together, we do 5 mans together. We do dailies together. We play bg's (wat pvp??!) together. Most of these folks are also casual for much the same reasons - family and life, basically.

Will they stay subbed forever? Nah. But they'll come and go. They've been with the game for years off and on, unlike any other game they play. They aren't going anywhere, not for long.

And you know what? That's ok. They'll be back in 5.2. At that time they'll be able to tackle normal modes, when it gets to the point it doesn't require vent, or much coordination. When new gear will be readily available via the new lfr. And that's ok. They enjoy the game that way.

As for me? I wouldn't expect any heroic kills anytime soon. Yes, I rolled a dk to join VOW. Yes, they're nice enough to let me come to their alt raid on wed nights which I think I can make most of the time. But that's it. And I'm ok with that. I don't want or need heroic mode to get satisfaction out of the game. I'm enjoying doing dailies (omg casual!!! Yeah, I know.) I'm enjoying seeing the story from both horde and alliance. And I enjoy carrying people in LFR (on my orc. My human is sooooo getting carried in lfr right now).

I've said it before and I'll say it again: You can be hardcore and bad. You can be casual and good. And the other 2 combos as well. The thing is, there's finally something for everyone - which is all I've ever wanted. Heck, I even enjoy scenarios.

This doesn't mean that I stand in fire (well, unless it's lfr...) or don't dodge stuff a tank should dodge. I know how to play at a competent level, and as such yeah - I'm gonna get some normal kills. I can even carry some people in normals to a point (see my logs prior) - so even people who aren't as skilled can make progress. e.g. a pally doing 25k effective dps got to see all the way to normal mode elegon, and got past first boss hof normal. This really proves that the current difficulty is really quite fine, normal guilds (aka guilds with people who are doing <50% of their chars dps potential, for example) are able to make progress thanks to the readily available gear. I mean, especially now, you can get 496 valor gear for very little effort. Blizzard really has done a fantastic job of making content for everyone, and allowing actual progression.

And as for you - I'll admit I've jumped on the bandwagon to give you a hard time. I tried being reasonable with you at first, but you remind me a lot of, well, lets just say someone else I know in real life. I've come to deal with the two of you the same way - you want to be the victim, so I'll give you crap for it. I don't deal well with people who play the victim card.

Now look what you've gone and done, made me make a serious post. Dang it.
Edited by Ghatok on 12/11/2012 2:45 PM PST
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88 Draenei Shaman
aus
17280
12/11/2012 01:10 PMPosted by Sarosha
The interview even says only 28 guilds have completed heroic sha of fear.


But its not sunwell, People get to see the content via normal and heroic.

A good reason to blanket nerf, Blizzard a raid tier >6 months means people are going to get burnt out hitting their head against the same old bosses. What is not a good reason to blanket nerf? just because they can. I believe stone guard and Elegon are a bit hard for where they are in the tier and it would not hurt to do a few small adjustments. I don't have any opinion on garalon because I have not killed him. If we are still on him 2 months from now then he is probably a bit too hard but we have not yet reached that point.

Our biggest problem? 5 different OT's since 5.0 /sigh.

12/11/2012 02:09 PMPosted by Sarosha
Congratulations, you have succesfully purged the board of every voice of less skilled raider in the game.


I am still here. I like my guild, far more then chasing a bit of ephemeral progression, I like my raid times, I like the raid length and trust me i am far too old and slow for the top tier heroic guilds let alone the whole working 40 hours a week thing. But I like being challenged. If the level of challenge is such that we kill normal sha one week before 5.2? Perfect.
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No, seriously, quit for good. You're too poisonous for this game. Blizzard, right now, seems to agree with us.

Oh, and nice job not addressing any of my other points, guess you do acknowledge it.


Allright Ill go adress them point by point.

But you know as well as I do, probably better, that because they agree with you today in no way is a sure thing they will agree with you tommorow.
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90 Orc Death Knight
7780
12/11/2012 02:22 PMPosted by Ninjablaze
It's never too late. Though admittedly I don't think being "one of us" entails quite what you seem to assume it does.


See, Ghatok was never a baddie, so the only person offending him is you, by lumping him in with other people who are.

Casual does not mean less skilled.


Just quoting for truth.
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90 Troll Druid
11615
12/11/2012 02:09 PMPosted by Sarosha
Congratulations, you have succesfully purged the board of every voice of less skilled raider in the game.


I'll smoke what you're smoking.

A lot of "lesser skilled raiders" post on this board all the time. They say "hey, I need help with a certain boss, seems we keep hitting enrage and we're not sure what we can do to get more DPS on the boss, here's our logs".

And you know what happens after that?

They get a !@#$load of advice. No one says "lolbad unsub you %^-*ty player". They get "maybe try this, maybe try that" or "your rogue isn't doing it right, tell him to try this instead". It's quite amazing how much "elitist people" (your words) on this forum will help people who are actually asking for help.

But the thing that pisses me off (and along with others it seems) is when people come on here and asked for stuff to be nerfed without even trying.

AMG NERF WotE LFR TOO HARD - a month later you acknowledged you were wrong. Weird how it works out when a lot more people figure out how the boss works, it's not too hard. It's the same with normal modes.

I thought Elegon was rough the first time I tried him. Hell, I spent 3 hours on him one night and we didn't get to the 50% phase at all. Then we talked and realized we were doing the pillar phase wrong (went one by one on both sides instead of everyone just focusing their own), now the fight is a lot easier.

Anyway, I'll enjoy not having to read your "everything needs nerfed because the average raider can't kill a boss within 5 pulls" crap.

Good luck, have fun.
Edited by Kuruption on 12/11/2012 2:57 PM PST
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*slow golf clap* I admit defeat you have managed to chase every voice of the struggling raider off the forum.

Darker is gone, I think he left the game.
Osmeric has given up, he has written off raiding
you've made Ghatok into one of you, I expect him to show up in a few weeks with heroic mode raid kills.

Congratulations, you have succesfully purged the board of every voice of less skilled raider in the game.

And now Ill be calling it quits, I hope you all enjoy patting yourselves on your backs for your leetness.

Will you finally quit for good this time?

Darker quit because he was more or less like you, except he just flat out didn't care.

The lesser skilled raider has their place on these forums. There's a lot of threads asking for help on bosses they're stuck on. They provide the problem, the logs to supply it, and THEY ASK FOR HELP.

The problem we have with you, Sarosha, is that you DO NOT ASK FOR HELP. You take into the extreme and STRAIGHT OUT ASK FOR NERFS. You been doing it all the way to Cata, my god. How in the heavens can't you see how silly and, why not, stupid when you do that?

I troll you because you don't want help, you just want momma Blizzard to spoonfeed you with progression and kills. Guess what, they catered to your needs in DS, and they lost 2 million people during that period because of that.

The math is on our side now. I know you're not familiar with numbers that do not work in your favor, but yeah.

Please, quit if you're not willing to better yourself. That is the PRIME aspect of a MMORPG.


ive very rarely asked for nerfs this expansion, I have complained about difficulty and have some of the decisions they mad were stupid.

Two things with that, when I was complaing about Wote, one of the things I said was it wasnt so much the boss was hard, (I got my kill the second or third day) it was that when I tried to run my alt through later in the week, the queue system was breaking down to all heck and back

The same thing happened with the garalon popcorn show

They fixed it, but they created more problems, like people trying to wipe groups on in progress runs.

okie off LFR for that

Even when I was talking about SG being hard I was sure it should get nerfed, but I think it was too hard for the first boss.

Now Elegon I do believe needs a nerf, I think too many people are stuck on him.

I do listen to alot of what you have said, but not everything.

I wasnt able to find a clean fit for a transfer unfortunatly, I just couldnt find the right raid times with the right progression.

And just because I enjoy a good argument doesnt mean I dismiss everything.
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
17795
12/11/2012 02:55 PMPosted by Sarosha
ive very rarely asked for nerfs this expansion, I have complained about difficulty and have some of the decisions they mad were stupid.


nonononono

You have asked for nerfs every single post you have made, that's why everytime I quoted you, FROM LFR, to NORMAL posts, I had to say "NERFNERFNERFNERF" in your quotes.

You CRIED over Will for 20 pages
You Cried over Garalon for 10 pages
You THREAD capped a "NO HELP JUST NERF" Stoneguards thread
You got carried to Elegon, then dropped on an alt, because you can't be bothered o buckle your belt

Over half of these, are LF - Freaking R that you cried about.
Edited by Postonforums on 12/11/2012 3:03 PM PST
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Edit, nvm. Others already stated it far better than I can.

Edit 2: Eh, here it is again. Why not.

you've made Ghatok into one of you, I expect him to show up in a few weeks with heroic mode raid kills.


Nah, I'm still casual. What makes me, specifically, casual is my inability to commit to raid times. And get on/listen to vent a good portion of the time.

Here's why I've changed my tune Sarosha - LFR.

I have a good amount of family (my dad, father in law) that are just bad players that I like to play with. I have bad friends who I like to play with. And guess what? LFR allows for that. But we don't just do lfr together, we do 5 mans together. We do dailies together. We play bg's (wat pvp??!) together. Most of these folks are also casual for much the same reasons - family and life, basically.

Will they stay subbed forever? Nah. But they'll come and go. They've been with the game for years off and on, unlike any other game they play. They aren't going anywhere, not for long.

And you know what? That's ok. They'll be back in 5.2. At that time they'll be able to tackle normal modes, when it gets to the point it doesn't require vent, or much coordination. When new gear will be readily available via the new lfr. And that's ok. They enjoy the game that way.

As for me? I wouldn't expect any heroic kills anytime soon. Yes, I rolled a dk to join VOW. Yes, they're nice enough to let me come to their alt raid on wed nights which I think I can make most of the time. But that's it. And I'm ok with that. I don't want or need heroic mode to get satisfaction out of the game. I'm enjoying doing dailies (omg casual!!! Yeah, I know.) I'm enjoying seeing the story from both horde and alliance. And I enjoy carrying people in LFR (on my orc. My human is sooooo getting carried in lfr right now).

I've said it before and I'll say it again: You can be hardcore and bad. You can be casual and good. And the other 2 combos as well. The thing is, there's finally something for everyone - which is all I've ever wanted. Heck, I even enjoy scenarios.

This doesn't mean that I stand in fire (well, unless it's lfr...) or don't dodge stuff a tank should dodge. I know how to play at a competent level, and as such yeah - I'm gonna get some normal kills. I can even carry some people in normals to a point (see my logs prior) - so even people who aren't as skilled can make progress. e.g. a pally doing 25k effective dps got to see all the way to normal mode elegon, and got past first boss hof normal. This really proves that the current difficulty is really quite fine, normal guilds (aka guilds with people who are doing <50% of their chars dps potential, for example) are able to make progress thanks to the readily available gear. I mean, especially now, you can get 496 valor gear for very little effort. Blizzard really has done a fantastic job of making content for everyone, and allowing actual progression.

And as for you - I'll admit I've jumped on the bandwagon to give you a hard time. I tried being reasonable with you at first, but you remind me a lot of, well, lets just say someone else I know in real life. I've come to deal with the two of you the same way - you want to be the victim, so I'll give you crap for it. I don't deal well with people who play the victim card.

Now look what you've gone and done, made me make a serious post. Dang it.


See your actually agreeing with me to some extent.

Is people playing LFR for 3-4 months out of every 6-7 allright, I dont know... Its allright for me. I dont know if thats allright for blizzard.
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